Originally posted by Si: And I think the Skoda Fabia vRS should get a mention as well, for being something of a ground breaker. Other manufacturers had done 'sporty' diesels before (aforementioned BX being among the first I remember), but this is a genuine hot hatch, a good move. Remember is holding off the Cooper (S?) round the TG track (admittedly with Hammond driving vs Clarkson).
It was the standard 110Bhp Cooper. The Mini caught it on the bends but the vRS got away on the straights.
Lancer I'm glad someone mentioned the HSR Chevette :-) I had a 2-door saloon kitted out in a mix of HSR and Manta GTE bodywork, could never afford a real HSR or a Manta at the time.
We have lost our way, but we're way ahead of schedule.
Top five hot hatches, how do I pick, theres too many!
IF I stick purely to small, simple front wheel drive cars then it's a little easier:
Joint 1st - Clio Williams / 182 Trophy
2nd 205 GTi - Everybody always seems to qualify this with "1.9" but as the owner of a 1.6, I think it makes little as no difference. The engine is essentialy the same, the 1.9 gets it's larger capacity from a longer stroke, which means the 1.6 is actually more rev happy. Phase 2 1.6 cars got the same revised cylinder head as the 1.9 so theres a mere 15BHP difference. What really differentiates the two cars in my opinion is the transmission. The 1.9 has taller gear ratios, which to be honest, the 1.6 could do with. The shorter ratios make the 1.6 more manic, which is fun in small doses, but taller ratios would make it easier to live with. Yeah the 309 was probably better, but it just wasn't very pretty
Peugeot 306 GTi-6: Now I know I said hot hatches shouldn't be "grown up" but this is a grown up 205 in a good way, a more "grown up" 16 valve engine, a longer, wider, more stable wheelbase so it no longer tried to kill you on.
Peugeot 106 Rallye - Proof that steel wheels are cool.
Fiat Strada Abarth - this should be rubbish with all that torque steer, but it's just so delightfully insane you've gotta love it.
Yup, the little Samba was a very competent competition car in it's class.
I leart all about lift-off oversteer in the ones I had. Very lightweight even in standard trim (ditching the rear seats made them even lighter !) and the marvelous, all alloy, engine from the Imp. You could rev the nuts off them.
ax gt is a cracking wee car....wasnt the samba rallye fitted with the same 1360 engine as fitted to 104 zs, 205 xs/gt/rallye and visa gt....think you could also get a 1194 cc unit in french visa and 205 for homologation purposes.....??
From memory (and it's a long time ago !), the S had a 1360 and the Rallye originaly had a devolopment of the 1124cc stretched to 1219cc with a bigger carb. There were some 1360's built after they had built enough for homologation.
The 1360 was no good for GpB and GpN as it put it in with the big boys in the 1301cc to 1600cc class.
The ones my Dad used to complete in started out as 1124,s, had the engines rebuilt as 1219's a single 45 Webber (stage rallycars had two 40's), rollcage added sumpgard, upgraded pads and a set of Avon Turbospeeds and you were away.
It said a lot about how good the basic car was that you only needed limited safety modifications and you were competing for class honors.
Originally posted by Noxide: I see the AX GT is going to be completley over looked as usual.
1. Toyota Starlet Turbo
A "Starbo" (as we refer to these extremely popular imports Ireland) as number one choice? ehh.... each to their own I s'pose. Fast in a straight line, but the solid rear axle setup would make US Crown Vic seem sophisticated. It's like someone took a standard Starlet or Glanza (Dublin pronouciation Gaah-Laah'n-zaaah) and strapped a dirty great turbo on. Madness! S'pose its fun in its own way.
AX GT on the other hand, *relatively* slow, but what a car!
1) Peugeot 205 GTI 1.6 (I prefer the 1.6 over the 1.9. Smaller wheels & higher profile tyres meant it was a bit more comfortable & it had less torque steer).
2) Renault Clio Williams (The fist version).
3) Renault 5 GT Turbo (Devilish little car. Would have been number 1 if it wasn't so flimsy.)
4) VW Golf GTI (Mk 1 version. Without this car, this topic wouldn't exist.)
5) Citroen Saxo VTS (Forgotten due to the chavved up & near identical Saxo VTR which is on every council estate in the Uk.)
Originally posted by Homer Simpson's girth: 4) VW Golf GTI (Mk 1 version. Without this car, this topic wouldn't exist.)
alfasud came first, they are the first 'hot hatches' in my mind .....
-------------------------------------------- Two junior particle physicists were dismissed today after using the Large Hadron Collider to smash conkers into each other at near-light speed.
think the first 'hot hatch' was actually a simca in the late sixties early seventies....1200cc or so and a massive weber carb..available in all the ususal yucky colours..metalic bronze etc....remember the renault 11 turbo??..all gone now...and the heroic failure of the allegro equippe...1750/1850 twin su carb motor and 3 door styling in flashy silver paint with a starsky and hutch style hockey stick dowm the side......
Theres always gonna be debate over the first "hot hatch", some say Alfasud, then there's the Fiat 128P, Chevette HS, Talbot Sunbeam, BMW 2002 touring etc.
Some will even argue, "why be distracted by a small technicality like a rear hatchback door?" and point to the Mini Cooper (or even Fiat 595 Abarth).
The thing is, the Golf is the one thats generally recognised as the first serious shot in the hot hatch wars. It was just a case of right car, right time, capturing the public imagination
..simca 1000 ti....105mph in a car wi the structural ridgity of a cereal box......1974....will agree with ya that the first real hot hatch, the one that set the template for all to come was the golf....
..mark one astra gte...better than vw and ford competitors as i recall....drove one for a month or so..sweet sweet engine and quick....polo g40...rare rare car...
Yes the 11 Turbo was a cool car in the 80s definitely. As was the 309 GTI. I remember Performance Car magazine running a 309 GTI (J309 OKV) as a long term test car.
Fiat 128 3 P - excellent. Nice engine and styling, and in an age where alot of mass market coupes bore resemblance to the 4 door car on which they were based , the 128 3 P looked nothing like a common-or-garden 128.
How about the Ford Capri? Theres an interesting one. Does that count as a hot hatch, or a coupe?!
Black late 70s 3.0 Ghia automatic please. Awight guv'na
..gotta be rs 2.6 or 3.1...or mk3 3 litre s...or mk1 3 litre gxl...or 280 brooklands..or plain 2.8i...or....well, any of the big six powered uns....i had a mint 2.8i and regret selling it to this day...i only drove it twice..
