quote:

Originally posted by Tomark:
Funnily enough, I am trundling along a dual carriage way in me van. Cruise control set to 60, the legal limit for the weight. Then I spot a scamera. I found myself glancing at the speedo just in case and quite involuntary.

What I do as well - set cruise - I may glance at the speedo just before a camera but I don't keep looking at it Phinehas! One other way is to drop in behind someone else who is driving within the limit and let them do the work - you can spot them a mile off they are the ones being overtaken by everyone else!!

I'd like to see Speed Camera replaced on straight roads by devices that can tell the distance between cars. Everyone on the M1 drives far far to close, then you get the knobs who push in without indicating who steal your breaking distance.

In isolation the speed camera is pointless, unless it is part of a broader approach involving effective police patrols I think it increases hazards on the roads. My reasoning is that speed is only one part of what can cause an accident, but now that so much of Policing has been given over to cameras people can pull out of junctions without looking, have poor lane discipline, tail gate, not bother with indicators, approach roundabouts in the wrong lane and veer across lanes on the roundabout itself without warning, fail to use mirrors and 101 other dreadful driving habits that are at least as dangerous as excessive speed.

JJB listed the following:
pulling out without looking, have poor lane discipline, tail gate, not bother with indicators, approach roundabouts in the wrong lane and veer across lanes on the roundabout itself without warning, fail to use mirrors and 101 other dreadful driving habits



But why do so many people rant and rave about all those, but will not accept that speeding is just as bad?

Is it that we think that we are in control and know better than those who set the speed limits?

The cars that I see being driven fast often display far better driving ability than the people who potter about causing confusion. In my opinion it's people who don't understand how to use the roads and usually drive slowly who are far more of a risk than someone going a bit too quickly.

If you are a legal driver - insured, got a licence and tax, then you've passed your test???? So why does sticking to the speed limit bother some people? Surely it doesn't take a Brain Surgeon to take your foot of the throttle?

Disagree? Well take this challenge...

Next week, for one whole week, drive within the speed limits 100%. It can be done easily - just relax. I guarantee that at the end of the week you'll be a calmer human being, and a safer driver too.

Sure the government is ripping off speeding drivers, but they put themselves in that position, so who gives a hoot? No one is forcing anyone to speed. If you get caught, take the medicine like a man.

In answer to the original post - yeah, anti speed cameras are totally immoral, indefensible, corrupt and just plain wrong. So, by NOT speeding you make them useless too!

quote:

Originally posted by Wobbletastic:
The cars that I see being driven fast often display far better driving ability than the people who potter about causing confusion. In my opinion it's people who don't understand how to use the roads and usually drive slowly who are far more of a risk than someone going a bit too quickly.

Have to disagree there. It's people who can't or won't accept limitations

quote:

Originally posted by b308:

But why do so many people rant and rave about all those, but will not accept that speeding is just as bad?

Is it that we think that we are in control and know better than those who set the speed limits?

What people are 'ranting and raving' about is the utter concentration on speeding and the almost complete absence of attention to other details.
And, first of all, speeding in itself, does not cause accidents. Travelling too fast at the wrong bit the road causes the accident, whether that is the bit of the road with a kiddie in it, or the bit of the road that is wet and has a tree by it. And, you can have such an accident without breaking the speeding law.
I am not a speeder, I get fed up of being bullied for obeying 40 and 50 mph speed limits locally. The point I am making is that speed cameras may slow people down, but they are not the answer to road safety. At best, they are a part of the answer. If they were the answer, there would be no road deaths in this country based on the proliferation of cameras. They haven't even begun to pull their weight, so to speak, in terms of impacting fatalities. And I personally do not like the inflexible nature of the enforcement which I believe causes me to concentrate too much on one aspect of my driving.
Deal with bad driving as a whole, and do it with police officers who are capable and trained to use their discretion.
I have far more close calls involving people not indicating on roundabouts, pulling out of junctions without looking, changing lanes inappropriately and tailgating etc, etc than I ever do by people speeding.
Not to mention badly adjusted headlights, clowns with blacked-out windows, cellphones and blue flashing lights (almost a daily sight here), and those with deliberately obscured or illegible licence plates - not dangerous, but a clear attempt to avoid being identified on camera. How do cameras deal with these?

Speed cameras, good or bad? Neutral. Use of speed cameras in UK? Bad, very bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Wobbletastic:
The cars that I see being driven fast often display far better driving ability than the people who potter about causing confusion. In my opinion it's people who don't understand how to use the roads and usually drive slowly who are far more of a risk than someone going a bit too quickly.

No one is really ever full in control of their vehicle the faster someone goes the less in control they are all it takes is a blow out,
a spot of black ice, or an accident in front happnes and because you are travelling at 90mph
you will add to it

Even highly experienced racing drivers are just passengers when they make a mistake or someting goes wrong with their car

Anyone who think's they can handle their car at speeds higher than 70mph is wrong

I actually think that thre should be a new system where if someone is caught driving at a high speed(i.e minimum 10mph over the limit) on A roads B roads and Motorways should get 6 points and have to sit through a driving standards lecture - the six points will effect their insurance, and if they do it a second time they would receive a 12 month ban

Speeding is one problem, people going too slowly is another - we should not confuse the two.

Speeding is wrong and we can do something about that.

Going to slow is often due to people knowing their limitations, and perhaps this should be applauded rather than condemned.

I get annoyed by the driver that does 45mph in a 30 zone and then at the national speed limit sign just continues at their steady 45. Really annoying - but perfectly legal and in itself NOT a danger. Just annoying. Its the reaction of other drivers that can be dangerous.

To clarify; We can all slow down, but not everyone is capable of going fast safely.

quote:

If you are a legal driver - insured, got a licence and tax, then you've passed your test???? So why does sticking to the speed limit bother some people? Surely it doesn't take a Brain Surgeon to take your foot of the throttle?

My gripe with the camera is that it is used when there are many more causes of death and destruction on the roads. It is used in an excessive way. The other causes, the majority, appear to be missed. Speeding is hailed as the great evil, turning out of a junction without looking does not get a mention. Speed does kill BUT, there are many more ways to get harmed. This is forgotten and I believe people have died because of this. The speed kills mantra gets pushed to the uninformed and they believe it.

I did an indicated 71 the other day. There were no major tsunamis, my insides remained inside, and there were no suns exploding. Oh, and I didn't die.

And where does the 120 million or so in fines go?

quote:

Originally posted by Tomark:

quote:

If you are a legal driver - insured, got a licence and tax, then you've passed your test???? So why does sticking to the speed limit bother some people? Surely it doesn't take a Brain Surgeon to take your foot of the throttle?

My gripe with the camera is that it is used when there are many more causes of death and destruction on the roads. It is used in an excessive way. The other causes, the majority, appear to be missed. Speeding is hailed as the great evil, turning out of a junction without looking does not get a mention. Speed does kill BUT, there are many more ways to get harmed. This is forgotten and I believe people have died because of this. The speed kills mantra gets pushed to the uninformed and they believe it.

I did an indicated 71 the other day. There were no major tsunamis, my insides remained inside, and there were no suns exploding. Oh, and I didn't die.

Turni out a junction without looking and the guy
coming along the road at 80 will hit you
on the other hand the guy doing 60 has a better chance of avoiding the accident

It Still comes back to speed !!

quote:

Originally posted by GH:

quote:

Originally posted by Tomark:

quote:

If you are a legal driver - insured, got a licence and tax, then you've passed your test???? So why does sticking to the speed limit bother some people? Surely it doesn't take a Brain Surgeon to take your foot of the throttle?

My gripe with the camera is that it is used when there are many more causes of death and destruction on the roads. It is used in an excessive way. The other causes, the majority, appear to be missed. Speeding is hailed as the great evil, turning out of a junction without looking does not get a mention. Speed does kill BUT, there are many more ways to get harmed. This is forgotten and I believe people have died because of this. The speed kills mantra gets pushed to the uninformed and they believe it.

I did an indicated 71 the other day. There were no major tsunamis, my insides remained inside, and there were no suns exploding. Oh, and I didn't die.

Turni out a junction without looking and the guy
coming along the road at 80 will hit you
on the other hand the guy doing 60 has a better chance of avoiding the accident

It Still comes back to speed !!

Granted, in a perfect world and all that, but the accident stats don't say that is happening. They say the accidents are happening from inattention. (last years at least, goal posts have probably moved again in an attempt to make speed the Hitler of all crimes)

[Granted, in a perfect world and all that, but the accident stats don't say that is happening. They say the accidents are happening from inattention. (last years at least, goal posts have probably moved again in an attempt to make speed the Hitler of all crimes)[/QUOTE]


But the consequenses inattention at 80mph can be far worse than the same at 60mph

Car technology may be well ahead but our bodies are no less frail

quote:

But the consequenses inattention at 80mph can be far worse than the same at 60mph

Of course it will be. Never said it wasn't.

Think I mentioned that it wasn't happening that way.

I'm sure I saw something recently saying that speed was a factor in the majority of road accidents - perhaps the words inappropriate/excessive should be placed in front of the word speed, but it does confirm the point that speed injures and kills people.

In theory at least if speed cameras are there then it frees up police time to target other offenders, problem is that isn't happening as there are not enough traffic police to make it work - but why does that make cameras so bad?

What some seem to be suggesting is that its unfair to fine people for speeding whilst letting others get away with other motoring offenses!

So perhaps they should stop policing altogether and we'll just have a free-for-all - because that is the logical conclusion of that argument! While we are at it we'll do away with all traffic laws, road signs/markings, etc, etc

How can cameras be bad? they are inanimate objects which are triggered by an illegal act.

Their positions are marked on road maps, posted on the internet and indicated on SatNavs.
There are signs telling us that they are there
They are Bright yellow asnd usually in a prominent place.

So after all these chances, if we get caught then who is to blame?

quote:

I'm sure I saw something recently saying that speed was a factor in the majority of road accidents -

You probably did. Spin, all of it. Some enterprising souls got their hands on the info and made it public. Then challenged the official line. Here is an example.

One of the first reports, one that you had to pay around a £100 to see, claimed 1/3 related to speeding. Someone paid to see the info and it was 7%. Hardly 33% And the game carries on today.

So a more appropriate speeding comment would be inappropriate speed. You still would not like a car doing 50 T boning you whilst you pull out of a junction without looking. 60 mph limit, still legal, would you survive?

quote:

How can cameras be bad? they are inanimate objects which are triggered by an illegal act.

Bt relying on them at the expense of proper policing. There is not enough space here to list all the things they do not catch. Starter for 10, drunk driving.

I am dead against 'REVENUE' cameras.

They are a lazy form of law enforcement & do not catch the real menaces on our roads:-

Middle lane hoggers
Outer lane hoggers
Uninsured drivers
Drug/drunk drivers
Tailgaters
Idiots who drive with front foglights when it ISN'T foggy

We need more traffic police; safety standards would imporve markedly.

Ban the lot, its robbing us all!

Well lucky for me I have not been done buy these cash converters but in my early years was going down the slippery slope for a ban through speeding. I guess it is a thing some people grow out of. I have a family now and screwed the head on, but I still crave the speed and to get it out of me system. I go to track days or kart tracks much more fun than wraping your car around a tree dont you agree?
I read some where that since the development of air bags and modern ABS brakes that people are driving faster than ever you should see the mess of a car that has been crashed at 40 MPH
if that doesn't make you slow down good luck to you you will need it.
Check out the link
http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/ncap/ncap_car_results...ationDate=2004-11-01