4Car logo, Click to Return to 4Car Homepage
    C4 Forums    4Car    4Car General    techy question, transverse and longitudinal swaps
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
  Login/Join 
thebenster
Four Silver Stars
Picture of thebenster
Posted
Im perplexed as to why Jag (for example) can't put their excellent 2.2D into the XF.
Apparently cos its set up for transverse FWD applications, but doesnt an engine just end in a main bearing and clutch? Is the change not absorbed by the gearbox? Anybody any ideas?
 
Posts: 497Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Bamford
One Silver Star
Posted Hide Post
The 2.7d is very good, wasn't aware that the 2.2 was all that?


CATERHAM R400 SUPERLIGHT COMING SOON.
 
Posts: 10594Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
b308
One Silver Star
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by thebenster:
Im perplexed as to why Jag (for example) can't put their excellent 2.2D into the XF.
Apparently cos its set up for transverse FWD applications, but doesnt an engine just end in a main bearing and clutch? Is the change not absorbed by the gearbox? Anybody any ideas?


Possibly something to do with the position of the engine mountings? Though the BMC A series was mounted both ways....
 
Posts: 3364Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
thebenster
Four Silver Stars
Picture of thebenster
Posted Hide Post
The 2.2d has 400Nm and a variable vane turbo which reduces lag.
I suppose it is the engine mounts and radiator fan gubbins. Or?
 
Posts: 497Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
assettt
Three Silver Stars
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by thebenster:
Im perplexed as to why Jag (for example) can't put their excellent 2.2D into the XF.
Apparently cos its set up for transverse FWD applications, but doesnt an engine just end in a main bearing and clutch? Is the change not absorbed by the gearbox? Anybody any ideas?


i was also thinking it wouldn't take much to setup the 2.2 D for RWD. The do need a lower emissions/cheaper diesel lump to attract the fleet market.

On another note, am i the only one thinking the jaguar is overpriced and the media british media adulation will not reflect in buyers demand. IMO if i had to choose between the 2.7D Jag and 525D i'll take the 5er.
 
Posts: 140Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Bamford
One Silver Star
Posted Hide Post
535d!


CATERHAM R400 SUPERLIGHT COMING SOON.
 
Posts: 10594Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
XNtrikalfaman
One Gold Star
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by assettt:
quote:
Originally posted by thebenster:
Im perplexed as to why Jag (for example) can't put their excellent 2.2D into the XF.
Apparently cos its set up for transverse FWD applications, but doesnt an engine just end in a main bearing and clutch? Is the change not absorbed by the gearbox? Anybody any ideas?


in car magazine the xf loses to the bimmer on account of its engine being relaitvel puny for a diesel in this day and age....

..tho in other tests, the pwetrol versions are cleaning up.....shame it looks like it does though, guess ya cant have it all eh??..

i was also thinking it wouldn't take much to setup the 2.2 D for RWD. The do need a lower emissions/cheaper diesel lump to attract the fleet market.

On another note, am i the only one thinking the jaguar is overpriced and the media british media adulation will not reflect in buyers demand. IMO if i had to choose between the 2.7D Jag and 525D i'll take the 5er.
 
Posts: 850Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
thebenster
Four Silver Stars
Picture of thebenster
Posted Hide Post
the 2.7 is a good engine, trouble is the bimmer engine is top notch.
The 2.2 is actually pretty good, ignoring the power status race, a 2.2 has the torque to pull the car no problem and will get in lower tax brackets like people have said here. Drove the 2.2 in the x type and it was excellent.

The 2 litre diesel class is useful in this market.
I love the looks of the XF esp in dark colours and the great interior.
 
Posts: 497Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Bamford
One Silver Star
Posted Hide Post
Palmy reckoned the interior was crap. Eek
I do wonder what he's on, sometimes.


CATERHAM R400 SUPERLIGHT COMING SOON.
 
Posts: 10594Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
assettt
Three Silver Stars
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bamford:
Palmy reckoned the interior was crap. Eek
I do wonder what he's on, sometimes.


They should have stuck a 3 pointed star somewhere on the dash to make it premium Confused
 
Posts: 140Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Bamford
One Silver Star
Posted Hide Post
True.
Plus a 'i hate derv' emblem.
Big Grin


CATERHAM R400 SUPERLIGHT COMING SOON.
 
Posts: 10594Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
craigjm
Three Gold Stars
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by thebenster:
Im perplexed as to why Jag (for example) can't put their excellent 2.2D into the XF.
Apparently cos its set up for transverse FWD applications, but doesnt an engine just end in a main bearing and clutch? Is the change not absorbed by the gearbox? Anybody any ideas?


Watch this space for a 2.2 XF. It will come, and soon. There is no reason why it cant be fitted and they already have prototypes with it in as it will allow sale to fleets at a lower tax burden. Wouldnt be much of a performer though and will be nowhere near as refined as the 2.7.

What they really need to do is bore the 2.7 out to 3.0 as unfortunately the 3.6 v8 wont be coming into the XF due to usage rights from Ford when the sale goes through
 
Posts: 1576Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Bamford
One Silver Star
Posted Hide Post
The Range Rover derv would make a good fitment.


CATERHAM R400 SUPERLIGHT COMING SOON.
 
Posts: 10594Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
craigjm
Three Gold Stars
Posted Hide Post
Yes it would but like i said it wont happen as the rights costs on it are too high for when they are sold.

The 2.7 diesel is by far a better engine that the BMW unit in terms of refinement. What it lacks is power but then you take your choice. Refined and nice drive Jag or diesel sounding and slightly coarse harder riding BMW which is faster. For a car like an exec i would choose the Jag.
 
Posts: 1576Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
thebenster
Four Silver Stars
Picture of thebenster
Posted Hide Post
Shirley a bit of haggling and they'll get it. Jag and LR justabout the same company, and already buying it for one car. Who else / what else will ford/pug put it in?
 
Posts: 497Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
XNtrikalfaman
One Gold Star
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by craigjm:
Yes it would but like i said it wont happen as the rights costs on it are too high for when they are sold.

The 2.7 diesel is by far a better engine that the BMW unit in terms of refinement. What it lacks is power but then you take your choice. Refined and nice drive Jag or diesel sounding and slightly coarse harder riding BMW which is faster. For a car like an exec i would choose the Jag.


these days, to compete in this market, jaguar need a stonker of a diesel..having a smooth 'nice' engine isnt enough..
 
Posts: 850Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Bamford
One Silver Star
Posted Hide Post
Aye, 250 bhp is a minimum now for the flagship derv.


CATERHAM R400 SUPERLIGHT COMING SOON.
 
Posts: 10594Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
MonkeyAlan
Two Silver Stars
Posted Hide Post
I don't the the definitive reason but it is probably more related to the constraints of the dimensions of the engine bay...

The engine (excluding gearbox) may be too long once it sits behind a radiator (as opposed to next to it in transverse formation), the bonnet may be too low (fwd cars often have taller engines as they can sit on the gearbox rather than in line with it - this is why many fwd sports cars do not have very low front ends , even if the block is canted back), the sump etc could foul with crossmembers etc, the ancillaries, which are a big determining factor may not fit or be able to be moved.

Also, things like centre of gravity and therefore handling could be altered as could the the ability of the car to absorb impacts could also be affected.

Outside of specials (kit cars using engines from transverse applications mated to rwd bell housings /gearboxes, mostly BW T5s and Ford Rockets and Sierra 5 speeders)I can't think of any cars that are or have been available with the choice of engine orientation. I exclude the Escort Cossy as that was a full running gear transplant).

I do recall either the Triumph Toledo or Austin 1100 / 1300 having been made in FWD and then, during a model upgrade, going back to RWD... but I could be wrong.
 
Posts: 65Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
barky
Two Silver Stars
Posted Hide Post
twas triumph that switched


why is it when I stand on my head that sometimes, just sometimes ......?
 
Posts: 4521Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
 Previous Topic | Next Topic powered by eve community  
 

    C4 Forums    4Car    4Car General    techy question, transverse and longitudinal swaps