..i must strongly disagree with you there palmy...ford is the automobile equivelant of big brother...dumbed down mass made product for the buyer who just wants transport...it is only fairly recently ie the ka, focus and zetec engined 'fishface' fiesta that fords have been above class average in ride, handling and general enjoyment...i daresay the way you feel about people who buy japanese is the way i have felt about ford in the past...bought by people because the dealer was nearest/their dad always owned em etc..etc...generally not bought by 'enthusiasts'...up till the mondeo, basic fords were absolutely horrid things...picture any late eighties escort, fiesta, sierra in basic spec...hideous interiors and dire dynamics....i actually liked the sierra, but only in twink form with a decent sporty spec..but i digress..ya get my point...basic cars for the masses...and nothing wrong with that, but to say they were in any way shape or form (unless the fact they kept the rain off is big for you) enjoyable to drive is stretching the envelope of credibility big time..hell, even wooden novas and astras were better to DRIVE than fords 80s and 90s offerings...till the new wave focus etc...came forward...parry jones i think..chassis genuis, brought ford forwars several decades in a few years...generally good cars now...but in the past...no no no....

quote:

Originally posted by biggbn:
..i must strongly disagree with you there palmy...ford is the automobile equivelant of big brother...dumbed down mass made product for the buyer who just wants transport...

Big G: For once mate I think you're so wrong about that. If I was being harsh I'd even say you're being a little snobbish.

quote:

Originally posted by biggbn:
bought by people because the dealer was nearest/their dad always owned em etc..etc...generally not bought by 'enthusiasts'...up till the mondeo,

Make your mind up, so all Fords are dumbed down rubbish, except for the newer ones then? You have to compare them to cars in the same class, from the same time period and in the same price range. As for the some of the quality marques (like Merc) from those days, the difference these days compared to mainstream stuff is nowhere near as great. A 3.0 V6 Mondeo Ghia X can put many so-called quality cars to shame costing considerably more.

Presumably you'd use the same sweeping generalisation about Vauxhall/Opel products too?

Is it not possible that people buy these cars because they like them and they do want they want them to do. If they don't quite hit the mark, then people do go elsewhere, e.g. latest Fiesta a bit dull and slow, so it's been losing sales since the 80s hayday. On the other hand, GM has played a blinder with the Zafira and it shows with the sales figures?

Your main gist seems to be that a car enthusiast couldn't possibly get excited about a car for everyday people. Why not? Unless your most important criteria is exclusivity (rules out BMWs then!), then you'll find cars you might like from pretty much every manufacturer, even Ford if you look hard enough!

yet.....everywhere you look in the world of motorsport, or driving enthusiast's press, it's all Ford Ford Ford....still the clubman's rally car of choice, the Ford Escort....still the engines of choice, duratec, Zetec, X-flow....

sure the old basic Mk1 escort wasn't too special to drive by todays standards....

however, I agree with biggbn reference why ordinary folk went out and bought Fords.
and Ford always used to appear to ahve a policy of not upsetting their conservative customer base?

still producing the pe-WW2 Ford Pop in 1959..cheap, sure...but BMC were introducing the Mini at the same time.....

reluctance over the introduction of the Sierra?
worrying over the 'radical' styling...yet still maintaining RWD so's not to upset too many people?
The Fiesta was a big breakthrough for Ford in europe....but they still had the mk 2 escort to fall back on ...just in case ...

GM continually bit the bullet!

..hey hey oily..thats exactly what i'm not saying...car enthusiasts can, and do, like any car they wish....i really do feel that fords offerings in the eighties were so dire..IN COMPARISON TO WHAT ELSE WAS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME...that they were pretty laughable...i cant see an enthusiast owning an eighties escort ofr fiesta because of its chassis dynamics or superb engines...cos they had neither...i really dont consider this to be a snobbish attitiude...i like earlier fords, rwd escorts etc...cos they stood up to their competition...the ka, though powered by an ancient engine is a hoot to drive and has one of the best chassis on a small car since the mini...generally fords since the early to mid ninties have been a hoot to drive due to the input of richard parry jones(i think thats his name?)with the exeption of the old escort and fiesta...which compared to the competition were abysmal...not just my opinion, but the opinion of many contempory road tests...i'm sorry if my opinion came over as snobbish...something i always try to avoid...i'm a fan of 2 of the greatest peoples cars of all time..the vw beetle and deux chevaux...my point is that ford in the eighties pandered to the lowest common denominator..fleet sales and the unimaginative british buying public...read my post back and i actually make the point that the current nova and astra were better cars that fords offerings, so to say i am anti-common cars is nonsense.....apologies if i ruffled yer feathers bro.....and your last sentance implies i write off everything made by forsd cos it has a blue oval on the snout...come on, you know me better than that....some of my favourite cars were fords...2.8i capri, 2 litre twink glsi sierra, ka, 2.8 ghia granada......but the model ranges i picked out in my post, when current, were dire.....sorry....

Sorry, probably got hold of the wrong end of the stick - I've been a bit touchy about badge snobbery since going from Volvo to Vauxhall ownership, plus I've owned loads of everyday Fords that were great cars.

Just the phrase "dumbed down mass made product for the buyer who just wants transport" pushed my buttons!

That was a bit harsh to Palmy just 'cos he admitted a liking for Fords...

...well the phrase equally fits mercedes at t'other end of the market too.....kiddin bro, kiddin....

LOL!

the KA having the old X-flow motor, in many ways, wasn't Ford's 'fault' or intention...the car apparently was designed around a new 2 stroke engine being developed (so could have been the next Trabby?)....said engine running into the buffers due to sudden changes in the EU's proposed emissions rules..or somesuch waffle......the only motor Ford had which would fit under the KA's bonnet line was hte X-flow....and since one can, without too much expense, buy,off-the-shelf, a tuned X-flow with a guarenteed 145bhp, for around 2K's...I don't see any problem with the engine??

oh..and I agree with biggbn to a large extent re fords..as a check back on my posts a coupla years ago would confirm....I could never really understand the popularity of the FWD products either...a comment heard outside these walls sparked my train of thought...overheard a youngish person proudly proclaiming to another, how she and hubby were really over the moon, they had their CAVALIER sitting proudly on their drive...jeeez!

I Like...

new cars (in no order):

Aston Martin Vantage
Fiat Panda
Lexus IS220/250
Honda Jazz
Honda Civic '06
Maserati Quatroporte
Porsche Boxster, Cayman & [997] 911
VW Golf GTi
Volvo S40/V50
BMW 5-series
Mazda MX5
Chrysler 300C

Some older cars:

Saab 900 & 9000
Ford Puma
Seat Toldeo '98-04
VW Corrado
Honda CRX Mk1 & 2
VW Golf GTi Mk2
Lancia Delta Integrale
Vauxhall Carlton & Senator '86-94
Rover SD1
Mk1 Ford Granada
Mk1 Honda Accord
Honda Civc mk1 ('72) & mk3 ('84)
Lexus IS200/300

Dislike, old & new:

Suzuki Wagon R/Vauxhall Aglia
All Vauxhalls apart from Carlton/Senetor
Scoobys/Evos
All Lexus GS models (pimpmobiles)
Lexus SC
Ford Granada Mk2, Mk3 & all Scorpios
early 90s Merc S-class
Nissan 280/300ZX & 350Z
Chrysler Neon
Ford Fiesta & Fusion
'Classic' MINI
Citroen C15
Volvo 240 & 340
MGF/TF
Metro/100
All american cars, 300C excepted.

I love BMWs except the Z3s and id take a porsche over any ferarri (maybe not an old 275 gtb lol)

I dnt really hate any car makers except the fact that most Toyotas have the most bland interiors i have ever come accross and the reason they dont breaks is cause the 70 year old driving it never gets above 30.

I despise rovers they remind me of Mrs Bucket and farmers

What else lol

i LOVE the honda S2000 i want 1 now.

quote:

Originally posted by kalvaza:
Actually, I can hardly go into Halfords for a look anymore because all the "chav your ride" stuff is by the door. I'll go in for a laugh if I'm brave enough and come across really sad things to stick on your chaved motor.

I popped into my local 'alfords earlier to get some screen wash. It really is a store designed for bling, bling chavs and boy racers. A definite paper bag job.

Talking about bling, bling, I logged onto the Ford UK Web site and did a Fiesta configuration just for fun. Guess what? You can actually specify go-faster stripes as an option! Mwahahahahaha....

believe it or not, there was ONE manufacturer, who would allow a customer to specify the type of exhaust known in custom circles as a side-winder....


it was Renault...


and the car was the '4'!