According to worldcarfans Mercedes-Benz is going to produce next gneration Mercedes A and B Class in Poland or Romania ...A premium car manufacturer that asks for premium prices producing its cars in developing countries where cars such as Logan are produced...In that way we should expect Jaguar to produce smaller cars in Turkey or Bulgaria...It will be shameful if they do this without making their cars more affordable... What's your opinion?
I wouldnt class Poland as "developing". Its a natural development IMO, TT is made in Hungary, Boxster in Finland, Merc in Alabama, BMW in SA etc, VW in Shanghai. The management culture of the factory is most important. In the UK we had honda and rover producing virtually the same car at different quality levels, not due to nationality incompetence, more due to the differing levels of competencee of the management culture.
where a car is built has nothing to do with wether its premium or not. The Audi TT is produced in Hungary for instance and some Mercedes products are already produced outside of Germany.
I think it's offensive to Poland to suggest a Merc is too good to be built there. I don't care what make, or what country a car is built it, aslong as it is good.
Hence why I owned an AX, a Rover and who knows what next? Probably an Evo or M3, but I'd be just as happy with a Daihatsu Charade GTti at 200bhp.
No it is not offensive.. We must not accept to pay the same price for a polish built B-class with a german built one... as a german employee costs 46Euro an hour to Mercedes when a polish only 6 Euro.........And I am not sure that the quality will be better because of cost cutting...
What if Jaguar closes factories and go on to thousand layoffs and move its factory to eveywhere else than the UK in ordere to reduce costs?Would Jaguar be british then?What would you say?Outsourcing is one of the main problems of the western world...
Originally posted by thebenster: I wouldnt class Poland as "developing". Its a natural development IMO, TT is made in Hungary, Boxster in Finland, Merc in Alabama, BMW in SA etc, VW in Shanghai. The management culture of the factory is most important. In the UK we had honda and rover producing virtually the same car at different quality levels, not due to nationality incompetence, more due to the differing levels of competencee of the management culture.
As I assume you do not know what developing country means in economic terms...
Originally posted by Knockside: I think it's offensive to Poland to suggest a Merc is too good to be built there. I don't care what make, or what country a car is built it, aslong as it is good.
Hence why I owned an AX, a Rover and who knows what next? Probably an Evo or M3, but I'd be just as happy with a Daihatsu Charade GTti at 200bhp.
Originally posted by tolis: No it is not offensive.. We must not accept to pay the same price for a polish built B-class with a german built one... as a german employee costs 46Euro an hour to Mercedes when a polish only 6 Euro.........And I am not sure that the quality will be better because of cost cutting...
I think you should be willing to pay for the quality of workmanship than the country of manufacture. Talk to some of the engineering employers in UK and they will tell you why they prefer the Polish lads to English lads (and it's not just 'cos of low wages). As someone said the management culture is more important. Remember China is the 3rd country to send an astronaut to space and the space probe sent from GB got lost in post somewhere. Yet most people talk of Chinese rubbish quality. As I've said before 'tis the reason mugs will pay over the odds for a car 'cos of the badge.
I read in the Polish press too about this. Well VW produce in Poland, along with Opel, Chevrolet and FIAT, plus Toyota are to start engine manufacture there. The work force is highly skilled (those that are left) and labour rates are cheaper for now. Poland supplies Germany with buses for public transport too. Poland has had a long history of car manufacturing.
Originally posted by assettt: Talk to some of the engineering employers in UK and they will tell you why they prefer the Polish lads to English lads (and it's not just 'cos of low wages). As someone said the management culture is more important.
Contradiction in terms there - on one side you say that the Polish Workers are better then in the next breath blame British Management - you can't have it both ways!
Its been long proven that British Workers and Management CAN produce decent goods - look at the number of Jap Car manufacturers over here, but only when there is clear understanding between them both on what is needed - something that was sadly lacking in the days of BL.
Too many people blame the Management for the decline of the British Motor Industry in the 60s and 70s - but as far as I'm concerned the Workers should take equal blame.
I don't expect that will go down well with some people, but that just how I see it from when I lived through that period and had to own and drive the stuff that was built....
Originally posted by Polonezia: I read in the Polish press too about this. Well VW produce in Poland, along with Opel, Chevrolet and FIAT, plus Toyota are to start engine manufacture there. The work force is highly skilled (those that are left) and labour rates are cheaper for now. Poland supplies Germany with buses for public transport too. Poland has had a long history of car manufacturing.
I have problem with MERCEDES,AUDI,JAGUAR,VOLVO,BMW,SAAB,PORSCHE closing their facories and relocating them to lower cost countries...If they do so,they should lower their prices,so that we should not pay premium prices for cars assemblied with a very skilled workforce that are paid 200 pounds a month!!!All the others non premium manufacturers can do whatever they want as the do not ask high prices...
Hyundai are building their new i10 small car in India, but it will be sold at the 'going rate' in other markets. Car makers have always priced according to the market irrespective of where the car is made. If they can make it cheaper in India but sell it competitively in Europe then their margins are better even after taking logistics into account.
Originally posted by tolis: What if Jaguar closes factories and go on to thousand layoffs and move its factory to eveywhere else than the UK in ordere to reduce costs?Would Jaguar be british then?What would you say?Outsourcing is one of the main problems of the western world...
Aye. Unemployment will soar, as thousands of service industry jobs continue to flood over to Delhi and other places in the East.
It doesnt matter which country a car is built in, its the quality that counts. If that quality can be better with a car being built elsewhere then so be it and if it leads to lower prices (doubtful) even better. However, lets not panic here and start to do a chicken licken about the sky of the economy falling in as jobs move abroad. We need good quality jobs in this country or we end up sliding down the route of all the jobs being created are retail which are not good quality jobs. To counter that we need to get the education system right, churning out workers who are skilled and useful to the economy. Then we can start to look at what jobs we fight for and which battles we can win. To me that is about saying bye bye to manufacturing jobs.
Interestingly though, the current economic situation and jobs like these going to eastern europe has started to have the effect of eastern europeans who have come to the UK going home. Maybe, just maybe, if we really want to do a manufacturering job we should go with them. Freedom of EU movement works both ways and if you dont like the job market in the UK then move!
Originally posted by tolis: What if Jaguar closes factories and go on to thousand layoffs and move its factory to eveywhere else than the UK in ordere to reduce costs?Would Jaguar be british then?What would you say?Outsourcing is one of the main problems of the western world...
Aye. Unemployment will soar, as thousands of service industry jobs continue to flood over to Delhi and other places in the East.
Have you been reading the Daily Wail again?
_________________________ "Forward", he cried, from the rear, and the front rank died. And the General sat, and the lines on the map moved from side to side.
Not at all, i just get answered by people sitting at a desk many thousands of miles away, every time i ring my bank, electric company, water company, etc etc etc. Don't think it isn't happening. It is and big-time. We are losing jobs hand over fist to the far East.
Originally posted by Bamford: Not at all, i just get answered by people sitting at a desk many thousands of miles away, every time i ring my bank, electric company, water company, etc etc etc. Don't think it isn't happening. It is and big-time. We are losing jobs hand over fist to the far East.
If that were true, unemployment would be rising. It isn't.
If we're losing low level support jobs in one area, were obviously (and are) making 'em up in others .... and as cjm says; in many b2c client-facing applications, they're being moved back.
The statistics don't support your fears, so don't have those fears......or employ better utility firms .... I can't remember ever having to ring any of the ones I use.
_________________________ "Forward", he cried, from the rear, and the front rank died. And the General sat, and the lines on the map moved from side to side.
_________________________ "Forward", he cried, from the rear, and the front rank died. And the General sat, and the lines on the map moved from side to side.
...A premium car manufacturer that asks for premium prices producing its cars in developing countries where cars such as Logan are produced...In that way we should expect Jaguar to produce smaller cars in Turkey or Bulgaria...It will be shameful if they do this without making their cars more affordable...
