I can't see the problem....if what you say is right, then re-packaging a product..thus saving millions in developement costs, has to be good for them.
after all, a lot of buyers wont go into the underpinnings too deeply...for example, may prefer to buy the trusted AUDI instead of the footballery Lambo?
as long as the money is rolling in, what does it matter?
Well I was going to start a topic with the title "Is Audi the new BMW" as on my motorway journey to work BMW drivers have got more courteous and considerate (due to bad reputation?) and now its Audi drivers that are the 'Mr Big get out of my way' pains in the backside drivers, cutting people up, driving up your backside, use of fog lamps in broad daylight etc. that gets up our noses.
Of course this is just my opinion and you may disagree with me.
As for the cars the R8 is supposed to be a road going version of the Le Mans car so there's some racing pedigree there. Premium SUV's are still a growth area (why?)and if people want 'em, VW/Audi et al will make 'em. Look at the X3 - completely pants and slagged off by the press (and me) but selling fairly well round our way.
I seem to remember this kind of topic comming up a few years ago. People still have an idea at what certain 'badges' are good at and if they stray too far away from that it can leave the general public feeling confused.
This is compounded by the amount of shared R&D that goes on these days.
The Phaeton could well be the best car available, but people still think "VW make relaible, safe small/medium cars. AUDI make luxuary cars."
Would you go out and buy a Barbour suit? Or a Prada waxed jacket for walking the dog?
Both companies probebly have the capability and knowlege to make a perfectly acceptable product but peoples perception is too far off.
The Toe-rag seems to be doing fine and I think it looks quite nice. VW needs an SUV for the US where Honda and Toyota have stripped away it's traditional compact car sales (and lets not forget you can have a mustang for the price of a Golf GTI).
I do think that VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda/Bentley/Lamborghini/Bugatti need to stop stepping on each others toes and offer a more diverse range of cars. More parts sharing, less platform sharing. For example:
VW keep teasing us with exciting yet fuel-efficient concepts, why have none them other than the dull "3 litre" lupo been produced?
Skoda - Theres no reason skoda couldn't make a rear engined car again from the VW parts bin. Bring back the rapid coupe as a keenly priced poor mans porsche? Could also be the basis of a new beetle?
Bugatti - Buggatis should be elegant in both form and engineering, not the brute force sledgehammer of the veyron. Leave the vulgar supercar stuff to Lamborghini
Lamborghini - Should be offering a 21st century Espada rather than a Miura replica!
Originally posted by crankcase: The Toe-rag seems to be doing fine and I think it looks quite nice. VW needs an SUV for the US where Honda and Toyota have stripped away it's traditional compact car sales (and lets not forget you can have a mustang for the price of a Golf GTI).
I do think that VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda/Bentley/Lamborghini/Bugatti need to stop stepping on each others toes and offer a more diverse range of cars. More parts sharing, less platform sharing. For example:
VW keep teasing us with exciting yet fuel-efficient concepts, why have none them other than the dull "3 litre" lupo been produced?
Skoda - Theres no reason skoda couldn't make a rear engined car again from the VW parts bin. Bring back the rapid coupe as a keenly priced poor mans porsche? Could also be the basis of a new beetle?
Bugatti - Buggatis should be elegant in both form and engineering, not the brute force sledgehammer of the veyron. Leave the vulgar supercar stuff to Lamborghini
Lamborghini - Should be offering a 21st century Espada rather than a Miura replica!
Well said Crankcase and I couldn't agree more. Three cheers for a new Skoda Rapid Coupe (convertible too!). However as Porsche owns 20% of the VW/Audi group I can't see them allowing this to happen.
Originally posted by sunsurfer: However as Porsche owns 20% of the VW/Audi group I can't see them allowing this to happen.
Why not? Porsche have attempted to collaborate with VW on a cheap sportscar many times. It's usually been VW that has pulled out. Give the rapid VWs new turbo and supercharged 1.4, price it to compete with Mazda MX-5s or the Peugeot 206CC so it doesn't step on the boxsters toes. Make it sporty and and fun, make a softer, "cuddlier" version and call it the beetle!
..yup 'new' muira must be laziest styling exercise ever...it does seem strange that vw audi group own so many of the 'big' players in the premium car sector, yet continue to attempt to shoehorn their own products into these market sectors...but as qj says, it could just be a way of selling more of, ostensibly, the same car, to amny different customers....as stated, a lambo may not appeal to many with 100k in their pockets, but an audi badged supercar might....same oily bits, different hat......
I think the Audi supercar makes sense to cash in on the LeMans success. It acts as a halo model providing a link between the road cars and the race car. Plus if they win this year they can do a GTTTTDTDII (Red "I") model
Originally posted by sunsurfer: However as Porsche owns 20% of the VW/Audi group I can't see them allowing this to happen.
Why not? Porsche have attempted to collaborate with VW on a cheap sportscar many times. It's usually been VW that has pulled out. Give the rapid VWs new turbo and supercharged 1.4, price it to compete with Mazda MX-5s or the Peugeot 206CC so it doesn't step on the boxsters toes. Make it sporty and and fun, make a softer, "cuddlier" version and call it the beetle!
Yes this does make sense if a new mass volume low cost sportcar does not compete with Boxster
Originally posted by Syntax Error: First VW launch the admittedly excellent Touareg & Phaeton; both worthy vehicles, hampered by a 'lowly' VW badge.
The Phaeton should never have been built, as the equally impressive Audi A8 covers that base.
The Touareg should have been an Audi, although that is selling fairly well considering.
Audi are now lauching the V10 R8, when they already have the Lamborghini Gallardo covering that base.
As good as the R8 probably will be, I can't see it selling that well.
Should VW & Audi stick to what they are good at, or is a bit of branching out welcome?
I totally disagree, the Phaeton absolutely SHOULD have been built. It is NOTHING like the mass-produced A8 and built by different engineers in a different factory. The Phaeton is assembled by hand in a new factory, next to the Bentley Continental Flying Spur.
Whereas the A8 has golf/passat/A4 etc switchgear & stalks, the Phaeton has bespoke ones. The A8 is alluminum and the Phaeton is steel.
I know 3 people who each have a new A8L for chauffeuring. The Phaeton is a far superior car.
..you haven't just bought one have you.....?? ha ha....lovely car, loads of prescence and technically superb...i had a shot of a 3.2...and really didnt GET it...i could have been in a top range passat...not enough sense of occasion...great q car in the spec yours is tho, and i'd imagine almost the perfect tool for your line of work.....
Originally posted by biggbn: ..you haven't just bought one have you.....?? ha ha....lovely car, loads of prescence and technically superb...i had a shot of a 3.2...and really didnt GET it...i could have been in a top range passat...not enough sense of occasion...great q car in the spec yours is tho, and i'd imagine almost the perfect tool for your line of work.....
Its definitely right for the job yes...
I drove an SWB 3.2 as well, but the LWB 4-seat (rear center console) and V10 engine with all the equipment is an absolute technological tour de force!
Ive spent the last 2 days (1140 miles) in the E320, which i would say is a better drivers car, its lighter smaller and alot more fun on the A-roads but as far as unparalleled quality, engineering excellence and completeness goes, the Phaeton is top of its class. Clients & friends alike have said OV55 looks the absolute business.
It averaged 30 mpg during the 4 days i drove it myself - ive been in the E class over the last few days & will be over the weekend too...
The E class does around 33 mpg average, so is the most economical on my fleet.. so is good for when there is one client on his own.. The E-class is also a drivers car so is fun for me
The driving experience of the Phaeton is different to a Mercedes... I would say i much prefer the dynamo-like V6 engines in the mercs, they are sonorous and rev nicely as you overtake. Whereas the Phaeton sticks at around 2000 rpm and makes a deep pitched constant sound as it slogs along on its torque
The V10 engine is very interesting and by god does it shift.
Originally posted by crankcase: I think the Audi supercar makes sense to cash in on the LeMans success. It acts as a halo model providing a link between the road cars and the race car. Plus if they win this year they can do a GTTTTDTDII (Red "I") model
