..some people have to have a new car....you cant tell em that even for the price of a perodua they could have any number of exotica or quality cars...they like the perceived reliability, the warranty and the fact that its new....what ya gonna do....apparently its a surprisingly good wee car taken in context...various tests damn it with faint praise.....

I am not a huge fan of the new MINI, because it is, well, HUGE. However it has it the markeet very sweetly and is selling at 200,000 ubits per year now. Great news for Cowley. The original Mini peaked at a little over 300,000 in the early 1970's.

Remember this was a Rover group design and the potential Rover had,if correctly channelled can clearly be seen. If BMW had managed the brand with brilliance VW has handled Skoda for example.

It will be interesting to see how the new MINI will fare when launched later this year.

The problem is, if u built the rover in the same factory as a Ferarri, its still a rover. BMW might have set down certain standards but in real terms the car quality may not have increased by much. Anyway, doesnt it make you wonder why its only worth a few grand, you get what u pay for.

[.

I can't see anyone wanting to own a Perodua Kelissa. They are cheaply made imports with no residual value at all. [/QUOTE]

I would for one!

nowt wrong with the car!

and the press, especially Top Gear, reckoned it was the nearest car in terms of handling and performance to the old mini.....

what seems to be forgotten here, is the 'raison d'etre' for the original mini.

It was never envisaged, in 1959, that the Morris mini/Austin Seven(mini)was to be marketed as an "icon"....it was, in fact, marketed as the cheapest of cheap family motor cars..beaten only by Ford's pre WW2 designed Popular!

So, the original mini, in my view, filled exactly the same marketing slot as today's Peroduas.

So what's the problem with Perodua?

they're a darn sight better equipped than the old mini was...safer too!


the mini, however, after 30 or so years, became seen as a 'motoring icon' like the VW beetle...a role totally alien and out of proportion to what the orginal designers envisaged.

BMW haven't re-created a successor to the mini..to do that, it would have to be sold NEW for under 5k!
they've actually produced a successor to something a tad imaginary, an Icon, or 'perception'!

using the label that Iconic perception gives, BMW have in fact created a very fine HATCHBACK...and nothing more...and that is how I view the BMW Mini!

Spot on, QJ, the new MINI (why the capital letters?) is NOT a Mini in any sense or form, its just a car manufacturer trying to make a fast buck from an iconic name. it just looks like someone has got a pump and blown it up like a baloon.

Its sad that manufacturers have to resort to ruining classic designs like the Mini or Beetle.

quote:

Originally posted by b308:
Spot on, QJ, the new MINI (why the capital letters?) is NOT a Mini in any sense or form, its just a car manufacturer trying to make a fast buck from an iconic name. it just looks like someone has got a pump and blown it up like a baloon.

Its sad that manufacturers have to resort to ruining classic designs like the Mini or Beetle.

QJ has hit the nail on the head.

However, like I said, its good news for all the people at Cowley that it is selling so well.

Face facts. BMW obviously created the RIGHT vehicle to wear the MINI badge. That's why it sells. It is exactly what the public (who want that sort of vehicle) wished to buy. Good luck to BMW I say and it is great that it is built in the UK.

In comparison, MGR got it all WRONG with the 75. It is exactly what the market did not want.

The BMW MINI and the Rover 75. Two retro themed British built cars at both ends of the desirability scale!

absolutely...pleased its such a success for them..

however...looking for a car that follows on from the mini(old) theme....ie 2-4 doors, sub 1 litre engine or thereabouts...compact plain simple and handles like a go-kart (which the old mini near,y did..the old basic 850 and 1000minis were not QUITE as good as the reputation made out..the coopers, etc were what really did the business...and I believe, if we are to look at a 'successor' then we should do what enthusiasts did back in 1960, and examine cars for POTENTIAL?

the old basic mini had potential....I expect the Perodua has potential too...??

Yes, there is a certain irony that a top spec MINI can cost upwards of £20,000 but if that is what people want – then so be it.

It is difficult to pin point a true successor to the original Mini. The original Mini was a revelation when launched, it also became a classless car that appealed to people from all walks of life.

I can't see the Perodua achieving that.

quote:

Originally posted by Puppetland:
Face facts. BMW obviously created the RIGHT vehicle to wear the MINI badge. That's why it sells. It is exactly what the public (who want that sort of vehicle) wished to buy. Good luck to BMW I say and it is great that it is built in the UK.

In comparison, MGR got it all WRONG with the 75. It is exactly what the market did not want.

The BMW MINI and the Rover 75. Two retro themed British built cars at both ends of the desirability scale!

It would be interesting to see how 75 would have sold without BMW torpedoing the launch and then having production location moved. About 250,000 were sold in the end (including ZTs), so I can see that upwards of 400,000 would have been sold under better circumstances. The main problem with the 75 was not its virtures or vices as a car, rather the backdrop of confusion it was marketed against. It would not of sold in the numbers the new MINI has, but it weas never planned too.

Replacing MINI will be a delicate trick for BMW, the spin off body variants will be important to maintain fashionability and therefore sales. I wish them luck, if only to preserve vital manufacturing jobs in the UK.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Puppetland:
Yes, there is a certain irony that a top spec MINI can cost upwards of £20,000 but if that is what people want – then so be it.

It is difficult to pin point a true successor to the original Mini. The original Mini was a revelation when launched, it also became a classless car that appealed to people from all walks of life. QUOTE]

the mini followed a theme established by FIAT...and Austin (7)...that small doesn't mean incapable....it put a cheap car into range of more 'working-class' people...the minivan itself was probably responsible for the demise of the motorcycle combination..as it could be bought without having to pay purchase tax.

it could oh so easily have been ousted from that spot by the Skoda Octavia Combi van, which doubled the space for the same price!

but the mini occupied the same market spot as the likes of Perodua, Daihatsu and the rest, do today.

the 'classless' bit refers to a later stage of the mini's market life when it became a 'style' icon...cute factor?

it was pumped up to represent all that there was to be proud of being british....I still recall the 'buy british' campaigns.

the BMW MINI taps into this later market trend?

yep, the Perodua wont achieve what the mini did..there's so much competition from other cheapo makers as it is...
and I doubt it is the makers intention to try...

doesn't make the make or car any less valid.

its all too easy to dismiss 'oddball' makers and small cars as irrelevant...especially with the current state of the used car market.

however, looking at the perodua (kelissa, not the tall thing) and there is much to commend it.
the powertrain is a gem....for the money.

If I had nothing better to do, and came across a Perodua for nottalot, I might be tempted to try a spot of modifying for performance...on the cheap.
nothing involving large engine transplants..that's not my barra as I feel that route alters the car's dynamics too much...but that one litre lump can probably be made to perform, and the handling can be improved (as was the mini's?)...all smacking very much of what Daihatsu did with the first Charades?
and I don't think ANYBODY herein dismisses the Charade turbo pocket rocket?


its all about seeking potential.

wasting ones potential is worse than squandering ones talent....

I just like playing.......

How low can the Rover 75 go? Motorpoint are offering new R75 1.8 Connoisseur SE for £7995.

Imagine what the trade in values for these cars are now.

Nil points, come to mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Puppetland:
How low can the Rover 75 go? Motorpoint are offering new R75 1.8 Connoisseur SE for £7995.

Imagine what the trade in values for these cars are now.

Nil points, come to mind.

Its 7,995 too much for one of those perambulating piles of dog dung.

quote:

Originally posted by Puppetland:
How low can the Rover 75 go? Motorpoint are offering new R75 1.8 Connoisseur SE for £7995.

Imagine what the trade in values for these cars are now.

Nil points, come to mind.

Not sure I'd consider a 1.8 but the bigger engined models are an absolute bargain - OK, so you don't get a warranty, but for a few hundred pounds you could buy one. Wonder how much the big V8 one is going for?? Would make a great track car!

quote:

Originally posted by Palmira:

quote:

Originally posted by Puppetland:
How low can the Rover 75 go? Motorpoint are offering new R75 1.8 Connoisseur SE for £7995.

Imagine what the trade in values for these cars are now.

Nil points, come to mind.

Its 7,995 too much for one of those perambulating piles of dog dung.

That's a useful comment.

..suggests that palmy has intimate knowledge of the exact value of dog dung...insider trading perhaps......my he is gettin predictable....

Yes i have, biggbn. As far as i know, the average value of a pile of dog dung is zero pounds & zero pence. Which is about the same as any Rover product.

Eugh horrid contraptions. Anyone who buys one at any price is making a big mistake.

an amazing amount of zero value dog dung perambulates out of your mouth mucka.....

oops..that sounds a bit harsh and uncouth...i think this thread should be capped now..everyone has said what they feel and no one has been swayed from their original feelings..pointless to continue this tit for tat tail chasing thread in my opinion...never the twain and all that......

Agreed.

Would like to know if the guy who started the thread actually bought one!

he probably fu**ed off to another forum shaking his head and thinking what a bunch of numpties we are....ha ha

I'm new on here. I must say I'm disgusted by Palmira's comments throughout the thread. They are neither constructive nor helpful. He has obviously got a thing about Rover in general. It all sounds a bit childish and immature. Why keep harping on throughout the thread, you made your point on the first page. I am beginning to wonder if you know what your talking about, or just being vindictive because "your mate" bought a duffer. If you are so good with cars, perhaps you should have spotted it for him. I looked at a 75 CDTI today with a veiw to buying and I was quite impressed. I have owned over thirty cars in my time, form a ford popular to an S type Jag and the Rover is probably as good as any. My brother-in-law commutes from the Northeast of Scotland, to central France at least once a month, and his 75 estate has been round the clock twice and still drives like new. It is a 2003, 2.0 l CDTI, and in 200,000 miles it has had 4 sets of tyres and a new clutch plate. Not bad for a motor that is fully laden for 90% of the time, and with a trailer behind as well. I guess if you get a bad one, thats it for life.

Some Rover/MG, like the ZT are very good. Some older Rovers are classic and good value still.
Palmira hates 8 cars out of 10 and dislikes driving!!
Not rea