As far as I can see electronic power steering was conceived by an idiot and engineered by a twit. There is no feedback from the road; you may as well use a thump stick just like remote control model cars have… and no Renault that was not a design request!
Originally posted by Noxide: I'm yet to have a car with power steering yet, Wobbley. It's for wimps!
You seem to have a lot in common with Gordon Murray, Noxide. He too favours a light car with a high power to weight ratio, and no extras to distract from the driving experience.
Originally posted by Noxide: I'm yet to have a car with power steering yet, Wobbley. It's for wimps!
You seem to have a lot in common with Gordon Murray, Noxide. He too favours a light car with a high power to weight ratio, and no extras to distract from the driving experience.
He also has the right idea on SUV's and Diesels, Prof. Colin Chapman and Gordon Murray are top engineers and are (were) extremely intelligent men.
Originally posted by Noxide: I'm yet to have a car with power steering yet, Wobbley. It's for wimps!
You seem to have a lot in common with Gordon Murray, Noxide. He too favours a light car with a high power to weight ratio, and no extras to distract from the driving experience.
He also has the right idea on SUV's and Diesels, Prof. Colin Chapman and Gordon Murray are top engineers and are (were) extremely intelligent men.
Nox, CC died lomg before the current advances of technology in diesel engines, so you can hardly quote him - what he would think of the present technology is anyone's guess! I'm surprised you haven't mentioned that chap from Germany (name begins with a P) - he also agrees with you - whatever that proves .........
Also taken from the McLaren website description of their current F1 car:
Originally posted by Wobbletastic: The thing is; conventional hydraulic power steering is better than the electric version so why have most manufacturers adopted the inferior design?
What proof have you got for that, or is just hearsay and peoples own preferences?
The fact that F1 have actually banned it would indicate that the teams would use it if it was available (weight saving and quicker response, I would think) - if a F1 team is willing to use it............
Thinking about it, it is only like using "fly by wire" in aircraft - do you contine to use hydraulic/cables systems when a better and more efficient alternative is available?
I think the mvoe to electric was a marginal gain in fuel efficiency? I.e. not powering a pump when not required most of the time.
I have electric PS on both my cars.
In my family car (Touran) it is integrated with the ESP, and can even adjust for crosswinds (which is handy with sucha slab-sided vehicle).
Drove across a motorway bridge in Brest with a serious sidewind (the bridge has it's own windsocks either end!), erlaxed my grip on the wheel - it tracked dead-straight - very impressive.
Originally posted by b308: What proof have you got for that, or is just hearsay and peoples own preferences?
I based my judgement on cars that I've driven. With electric power steering I have never been able to feel the road through the wheel... it feels very detached when compared to hydraulic or manual steering.
Thanks, W, I thought that would be the case, personally I haven't found a difference between eletric and non-electric PS, lets face it they can get a computer to saimulate anything these days!
Having said that the "other" car i have at the moment is FWD with no PS and its a real drag to drive at low speeds - I'm afraid I'm a complete convert to PS, but the jury's out on the electric version!
Electric power steering is the curse of the modern car. Might as well be playing a playstation game as you get more feedback from one of the wheels on that machine.
I personally prefer some weight to my steering and would pay the increase in fuel consumption to get it.
Good electric power steering is very good, it's the sort of lazy motor journalism that automatically thinks only rear wheel drive cars can ever be good that has a downer on electric PS IOM.
Originally posted by Secret Squirrel: What are you on about jjb, how can it be good?
I've driven a couple of cars with electric steering and it felt terrible. Infact there was even less feedback than from my wheel I used to have for PC racing games.
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with electric power steering and I think some of you may be mis-understanding how it works.
It isn't a "fly by wire" system. Is assists what you do rather than interprets your inputs and to that end, it is no different from hydraulics - the hydraulic pump is replaced by electric motors. The direct mechanical link between wheels and the streering wheel remains.
The key to it is probably the electronics behind the electrics. You could build in all sorts of parameters to weight the steering as speed increases etc.
I can't help thinking its a bit luddite to say "i don't like power streering". I used to race a very light RWD car that ran on fairly narrow wire wheels and often used to wish for it because of the dampening effect it had. On a new road car, its unthinkable not to have it..
I'm with the Monkey on this. A modern car without power steering is unthinkable. In fact, even an un-modern one without power steering is more than likely to find itself unwanted. Power steering is not a modern phenomenon, its been around for years .... which is precisely why the hydraulic systems are so good; every manufacturer has had an age in which to perfect them. Electric systems on the other hand are brand, spanking new. Give the makers a few years to get the recipie right and we'll all wonder why we bothered with this thread in the first place (that is, if any of us still remember contributing to it in a few years ... if you think you might, you should probably get out more).
_________________________ "Forward", he cried, from the rear, and the front rank died. And the General sat, and the lines on the map moved from side to side.
Originally posted by MonkeyAlan: I can't help thinking its a bit luddite to say "i don't like power streering".
I love throwing my capri round the local country roads, and having power steering really masks the little lightening twitches that tell you when understeer or oversteer is about to put a crimp on your day.
That's why I am paying to take it off when i get the cossie back on the road.
If you aren't going to drive like a 12-year-old, then power steering is a good thing.
the great ljks used to argue that steering feel was one of the most overated things about a car and that if you knew 100 per cent that the car would go exactly where you pointed it it was totally unnesseccary...not sure i agree with him on that one but yet another example of his left field sometimes wilfully eccentric thinking....
when you crest that sweeping, curving bump and feel the wheel lighten slightly, you know the next few milliseconds are important.
...unless you have power steering and miss this warning sign.
or when you overdo it and feel the back step put a little too far - you let go of the steering wheel and pray the caistor will snap you back to some sort of order...
....unless you have power steering.
It really has no place on performance cars when the difference between understeer, oversteer and a tow truck is a fraction of a second's warning away.
