quote:

Originally posted by XNtrikalfaman:
so although polo, fabia and ibiza actually do have very different looks ad characters, chances are they will drive very similarly...??...

..again, not speaking from experience, but i would imagine the ibiza to 'feel' sportier due to the perceived image of seat as the 'sporting' brand, and therefore it will probably have stiffer springs, sharper steering, the polo will drive like a polo..solid, stolid..and the skoda should be softer, more comfortable....but all will go very, very hard....

yeah well mr b308 was teasing u a wee bit, as i have not driven these cars, so just guessing.
Id be amazed there is much difference though, samish engines, kerbweights, FWD struts up front, front biased. probably all nice cars to own though.

im pretty sure they will be 'set up' by the manufacturers to suit/fill the niche that vag has created for them all....

I think the "niche" they found for the Fabia vRS even caught them out!

Volvo C30 D5?

Effectively a Focus ST diesel. Looks good on paper but only average reviews.

Subaru's new 180 bhp flat-4 diesel might be the one?

answer is none of them. petrol for hot hatches.

quote:

Originally posted by JET BLACK 81:
answer is none of them. petrol for hot hatches.

Predicatable, if incorrect.... now where's Nox to agree with you....

You petrolheads are sooooooo predicatble!

200 bhp and 350 lbs-ft is entirely possible and affordable, with the VAG derv 1.9.
I don't call that poor. Or slow.

quote:

Originally posted by Bamford:
Skoda vRS?
Seat Ibiza 160?
VW Golf GTI 150?
BMW 120D?

Been off-air for a while, and saw this when catching up on some threads.

I think that my answer is fairly predictable, though -
I'd go for the BMW 120d 3-door, if and when it gets a DSG style gearbox,

Until then, I'd plump for the Golf GT 150 (don't think that it is officially a "GTI" is is?).

The DSG makes all the difference in my book.

quote:

Originally posted by mad-g:
Until then, I'd plump for the Golf GT 150 (don't think that it is officially a "GTI" is is?).

It is a GTi, as its a GT spec Golf with fuel injection! But because the TDi has always been known as that since they replaced the old IDI TD they dropped the first "i" to make it less of a mouthful!

Remember that the reason the original petrol GTi was so named was to emphasise the use of injection when most cars were carb'd, and it sounded better, even so GT TDi is a mouthful, though!

Skoda vRS?
Seat Ibiza 160?
VW Golf GTI 150?

All the same car with some different clothes and marketing. All dismal. I'm getting bored of Golf GTi drivers getting up my chuff - I had a GTi TDi Mk4 try and squeeze me out on the motorway the other day, after about a second of equality, I absolutely blew him out of the water.

When do people with Diesel cars think they have fast cars all the time? Just because your car has a turbo, doesn't get away from the fact it's a DERV and therefore slow!

How comes my BMW derv wasn't slow, then?
ALL dervs are slow?
Er, no way!
How is 175 mph slow? That's what the new 335d and 535d do standard, after a simple electric derestrict.
My remapped derv did almost 180 mph, genuine.
That's more than a Lancer Evo FQ400!!!

the evo would still be faster though if it mattered for top speed. the reason it doesnt is because it has gearing for driver enjoyment and would hit the limiter in top gear before getting to 180mph. even on a track i wouldnt go over 120mph in a road car. it would mean being on a pointless straight and thats not where the fun is.

quote:

Originally posted by Bamford:
ALL dervs are slow?
Er, no way!

Of course they are, Bamford, we all know that Nox is the forum expert on diesels and knows everything there is to know about diesels and all cars, he is the font of all knowledge and no-one is allowed to express any opinion which contradicts him, especially when he is slagging off diesels (ie most of the time) - now go and sit in that corner with the pointed hat with a D on it!

And, Nox, go and find another thread to comment on where you won't look like a real p**t when you post - I'd suggest B's M5 thread for starters - I think you like that car, its petrol powered!

quote:

Originally posted by beach:
the evo would still be faster though if it mattered for top speed. the reason it doesnt is because it has gearing for driver enjoyment and would hit the limiter in top gear before getting to 180mph. even on a track i wouldnt go over 120mph in a road car. it would mean being on a pointless straight and thats not where the fun is.

Nope, that's wrong.
The Evo FQ400 isn't limited by gearing.
It is limited by a barn door shape, partly for cooling purposes and partly because it started life as a 1990 taxi.

So it couldnt hit the governor (whatever speed that may be, in top)? Aerodynamics and cooling would put a stop to that?

Definitely, Si.
My Evo 340 had 375 bhp, yet used to stop dead around 155-160 mph, due to the shape.
Modern, aerodynamic cars, with 100 bhp less, will be as fast.
An ex-girlfriend's 270 bhp Astra VXR will do 170 mph almost.

i'm still not so sure.
look at the stats.
2.0 GSR 4d 5.1 s 157 mph 276 bhp
2.0 MR 4d 4.9 s 157 mph 276 bhp
2.0 MR FQ-300 4d 4.9 s 157 mph 305 bhp
2.0 MR FQ-320 4d 4.7 s 157 mph 325 bhp
2.0 MR FQ-340 4d 4.5 s 157 mph 342 bhp
2.0 FQ-300 4d 4.5 s 157 mph 305 bhp
2.0 FQ-320 4d 4.4 s 157 mph 326 bhp
2.0 FQ-340 4d 4.2 s 157 mph 345 bhp
2.0 MR FQ-360 4d 4.0 s 157 mph 366 bhp
2.0 FQ-360 4d 4.0 s 157 mph 366 bhp

276bhp to 366bhp all top speed of 157mph. its not to do with aerodynamics, its the ecu speed limiter that will cut power, thats why it feels like hitting a wall at that speed. if it was aerodynamics causing it the 90bhp extra powered version would at least have 1mph more top speed.
and thats why your 375bhp 360 still cut out at 157mph.

i meant to say your 375bhp 340, not 360.

The point is, that the Lancer Evos have a hopeless shape for top speed and the big flat intercoolers cause a lot of extra drag.
They aren't and never will be, fast cars at the top end.
They simply don't have the right shape for top speed.
They have never been about high mph figures, in any case.
Once you are above 150 mph, you need an awful lot of power to overcome a 'bad' shape.

A modern BMW 3.0 twin-turbo diesel will keep with an FQ360 for top speed, with or without a speed limiter.
Take a look at the acceleration figures for an FQ300/FQ320.
Very impressive from a stand, still great to 120 mph, then very average indeed.

My M3 CSL used to leave all std. Evos for dead, top end.

My Evo 340 was derestricted, but above 150 was slow.

quote:

Originally posted by Bamford:
Skoda vRS?
Seat Ibiza 160?
VW Golf GTI 150?
BMW 120D?

123d i have decided!

quote:

Originally posted by Bamford:

quote:

Originally posted by Bamford:
Skoda vRS?
Seat Ibiza 160?
VW Golf GTI 150?
BMW 120D?

123d i have decided!

renault 175dci
toyota t180

both strong engines, t180 i thought is similar or same as the 180bhp engine in the new Subaru.

123d - a lot of money to pay for a car that looks like that

The coupe is gorgeous.

After 10 minutes under the bonnet I'd now like to put forward my Astra as one of the quicker diesel hatches. It's not been on a rolling road but if the guides are to be believed then it's pushing out similar figures to the Thurlby 888 - and certainly feels quick! Now just to find a VXR for a showdown....