Hi, The apartment i was referring to in my original post is in AP4, have anyone reserved in AP4, what do people think of AP4, are the prices the same for apartments that are in for example AP4, AP2 & AP5?

Also is it true that the apartment prices have not increased since they were launched by Fedesa? how much was a 2 bed 2 bath apartment on 2nd floor when initially launched, ive been advised it was about 103,000 euro - is this true? that about 68k?

Hope someone can advise, Thorr i know you have alot of info on Saidia, what do you think of AP4, 2 BED 2 BATH APT?

Also ive someone suggested there was going to be more released, will these be at a premium? do we know where these will be? any info welcomed as im looking as possibly purchasing a 2 bed, 1st or 2nd floor apt.

quote:

Originally posted by investor27:
Hi, The apartment i was referring to in my original post is in AP4, have anyone reserved in AP4, what do people think of AP4, are the prices the same for apartments that are in for example AP4, AP2 & AP5?

Also is it true that the apartment prices have not increased since they were launched by Fedesa? how much was a 2 bed 2 bath apartment on 2nd floor when initially launched, ive been advised it was about 103,000 euro - is this true? that about 68k?

Hope someone can advise, Thorr i know you have alot of info on Saidia, what do you think of AP4, 2 BED 2 BATH APT?

The releases are at about 135K Euros. I have no idea what was the original price.

quote:

We really are neighbours! i've bought AP5-B7-P2-RDC A !!! Good to hear from you. To answer your questions - yeas the taxi stayed with us the whole time, infact it drove us round the site with a Fadesa guide directing. It is still a huge building site but plenty of properties are finished as is the marina, prominade and beach hut. Definitely worth a visit. AP-5 has started and the foundations are in place. How much did you pay for your apartment if you dont mind me asking, i paid 86,369 euros.

Sorry not to reply sooner. I was away and forgot all about Saidia for a while!
I paid 957,421 MAD which at the time I made the first deposit payment equated to €86,254. At that time the price quoted for yours was 958,702 MAD or €86,369 because I was trying to decide which to go for. In then end I think mine had an extra one square metre of garden so that did it!!
Glad to hear you've seen the building work being underway. Were you given an estimated completion date and if they're on schedule?
I was wondering if we're offered any choice in the finishing of the bathrooms and kitchen, like tile colour etc. Was this offered to you or is there just a standard package that we all get?

Final question - were you offered any white goods as part of this offer that some people were given? I wasn't offered it, but wondering now if its worth persuing.

hi there!
good to hear back from you...
to answer your questions - i was originally given a completion date of june 2008 - and no one has told me any different since - theres no reason i saw on the trip that this wasnt easily achievable.
No choice of finishes were given.
The question of white goods is a thorny one for me as Fadesa ran an offer from 1st August 2006 till 15th Oct 2006 that if you bought within this time you got free air-con and white goods. I was not told of this and signed my contract 31st July but did not post it off til 2nd Aug. I got my solicitor to ask them if i could still get the free goods and someone high up in Fadesa said 'it shouldnt be a problem' - but they would then not give me written confirmation of this. A lengthy email/letter campaign started between me/sols & fadesa but they would not budge!
In the end the legal costs of me pursuing my claim were not worth what i would get free.
Typical of a multi-billion pound business not giving a s**t about the little guy....

Best company to go through with a property in Saidia is GEM Estates - they only deal with the quality developments that come fully furnished with all mod cons! plus they have exclusive access to some units!

Hi there

I am not writing to be different than what you all say, its just that I really do not believe in the Kings projects. I was put of by Saidias location. Fair enough, it is changing, but as an investment there are much more suitable locations. The temprement of the Algerian border, the poverty and unemployment in the area etc etc. If you are looking to buy in Morocco look on the med but closer to the tunnel, already described by Spains transporter minister as the most important economic creation of the 21st century on a level with the suez and panama canals of the 19th and 20th centuries respectively. The infrastructure is being heavily improved there, and tourism is booming much greater than oujda region (Saidia)

The airport expansion and tourism plan of 08 which not many people willhave seen are going tobe re branding the med coast near the tunnel to Temuda Bay! This new name is to make it more international, and will be the tourism face of morocco 08. Property growth will be very high. I have done almost 12 months of research non stop into morocco for a company, so if any one would like comparitive properties or locations I can help.

Id say no matter where you buy you will profit, but stear clear of places like Asilah, as they have 60 000 low cost houses planned there for people below the poverty level, turning it into a moss side so to speak, once affluent, introduction of this kind of property normally increases crime rate etc.

Many interesting figures, Morocco is DEFINATELY the place to invest and I will be doing so promptly. But genuinely, this project is to attract investment and will not be a long term thing, its a massive construction in the middle of nowhere aimed at increasing the local economy, a selfish plan by the government.

Houses around Kent shot up 19% on speculatyion of the channel tunnel in 1989 due to better infrastructure links planned into london, and 270% over the following 10 years.

That was not even that succesful. If you imagine 72% of africas trade is done throughy europe and everyone has to fly or ship the goods. 2 expensive forms of transport, once this tunnel is done road will be the option for most of Africa. It is being built by Lombardi, a swiss engineering company who built the alpes tunnel, financed by private companies on each side of the med. Thousands of vehicles will pass through a day, boosting the local economy through the roof. Also one of the worlds largest marinas is nearly complete there. And bare in mind this is the busiest shipping through point in the world. If anyone is interested let me know and I will advise you to what I know, and at worst you can compare.

Regards.

And again Teraca you have no clue as to what you talk about, cancel your account and go to the richard and judy forum.

You are to clueless to offer advice. I bet you dont even know where morocco is. As I read somewhere else, you lived in USA for 12 years? Was that a workers visa? or are you from the USA. did u know that morocco shares the oldest unbroken treaty in the world with the USA and they were first country to recognise yur independence? Be greatful.

Also Morocco could easily hit the 400 k level for the right property, I have seen villas going for 10 million. Although the country is poor, it has a lot of wealthy investors and individuals, Yves saint laurent, David Becham, Richard Branson, HRH of Saudi Arabia - who brought ALL the money to the Costa Del Sol - mwhere I have lived for 10 years! So please lets not comment on things we are clueless on, ok teraca!

Regards

quote:

Originally posted by annon judge:
already described by Spains transporter minister as the most important economic creation of the 21st century on a level with the suez and panama canals of the 19th and 20th centuries respectively. The infrastructure is being heavily improved there, and tourism is booming much greater than oujda region (Saidia)

The airport expansion and tourism plan of 08 which not many people willhave seen are going tobe re branding the med coast near the tunnel to Temuda Bay! This new name is to make it more international, and will be the tourism face of morocco 08. Property growth will be very high. I have done almost 12 months of research non stop into morocco for a company, so if any one would like comparitive properties or locations I can help.

Many interesting figures, Morocco is DEFINATELY the place to invest and I will be doing so promptly. But genuinely, this project is to attract investment and will not be a long term thing, its a massive construction in the middle of nowhere aimed at increasing the local economy, a selfish plan by the government.

Houses around Kent shot up 19% on speculatyion of the channel tunnel in 1989 due to better infrastructure links planned into london, and 270% over the following 10 years.

That was not even that succesful. If you imagine 72% of africas trade is done throughy europe and everyone has to fly or ship the goods. 2 expensive forms of transport, once this tunnel is done road will be the option for most of Africa. It is being built by Lombardi, a swiss engineering company who built the alpes tunnel, financed by private companies on each side of the med.

Do you realize that the tunnel is going to be finished by 2025-2028?

quote:

Originally posted by annon judge:
the med. Thousands of vehicles will pass through a day, boosting the local economy through the roof. Also one of the worlds largest marinas is nearly complete there.

Mr. Bean, you already envision the tunnel as being ready, right?? Read the articles, it will be constructed 20-25 years from now. Are you still going to be alive then? Probably yes as you do not sound to be more than 20 year old.

quote:

Originally posted by annon judge:
I was put of by Saidias location. Fair enough, it is changing, but as an investment there are much more suitable locations.

Europeans new to Morocco want security and private medical facilities.
Saidia has these and will be a 'home from home' - very much a secure playground with everything one needs.

Also there is a limited amount of property in this site, once gone thats it you cant get in.
Tangiers on the other hand will have a limitless supply of property all competing for rent and sales.

Many very expensive development in the world are located remotely. For some this adds to the felling of 'getting away from it all'.

If I were to invest again in the UK i could buy in a remote tourist area such as Cornwall where beachfront property is very expnsive or I could buy in central London to benefit form trade (the thrust of your argument). Either way its a good investment.

I would not buy on one of the many developments near Tangier apart from the second Government site - Port Lixus which I have invested in.

Think about it; The Plan Azure sites have
1) On site golf
2) On site mega marina
3) On site beach
4) World class facilities

This is totaly different to a one off non Plan Azure development. The marina's in particular will add a lot of Kudos.

No, the tunnel is being started in 2008 teraca, maybe 2009. These reports were released in October 2006. The tunnel may take a long time, but that isnt the point, teraca, please distance yourself from forums, people here type constructively. I lived in Marbella up untill about 3 weeks ago, I now live in Singapore for an investment firm.

The tunnel is not built, if it was I would have used it if it was for individuals 2 months ago when I took the helicopter from Malaga there. So Teraca, be constructive at least.

I disagree, the imbalance of wealth in that area, the economy, unemployment etc etc would make it rely purely on the foreign market. Limiting residential tourism, where the population can not afford the benefits of such a said community. There is also no passing trade due to the restrictions of the border and the new airport will be used infrequently. Also the marina is for small leisure boats, it isnt a trade or major port.

Also note that the world class facilities are not important, the best golf course for example is the cabo negro near the tunnel area. Also you fail to obsolete my tourism statement.

Tangier isnt where I said, that is on the straits, more atlantic than med. I would agree that it would be getting away from it, but there are about 10 000 apartments or rooms? Hardly exclusive. And I think people visit Morocco for culture, not exclusivity. If you said Bahamas I would say yes go exclusive.

I think it will make money and surpass inflation. The medical facilities of Ceuta are proxile enough.

There will be a lot of competition aswell, thousands of other people have bought there, and everyone seems to be an investor.

A colleague of mine sold a large quantity of apartments to a couple of individuals, pure investment, aimed at flipping, now the market is too competitive so they must hold and complete, now they will be liable for CGT.

Also note the chanel tunnel wasnt built until 1994, but growth was immediate due to immediate improvements on infrastructure and speculation will always drive houses up!

Thor your points are valid and I think you will do well, I just feel that there are stronger areas.

Teraca on the other hand, what have your brought to this discussion? Negativity and trying to make a point of me being wrongly informed. Shame.

The plan azure is a development plan to regenerate certain areas, like the leaseback so to speak, aimed at driving tourism to certain areas. In theory this will benefit you a great deal, but like leasebacks I do not expect the growth to be as great over the next 10 years as they are too isolated and tourism isnt enough. People will continue to visit Marakech and Asilah, out of habit.

Where as like myself Malagenos and Costa del Sol/ De la Luz residents will venture the northern (tetouan region) out of ease.

Also as far as marinas go, the Marina Smir region for example is a marina built to replicate Puerto Banus - one of the most exclusive areas of europe. I lived there. And to be fair smir is a much more attractive location that mirrors marbella 15 years ago or less. To the finest detail... same management companies, king of saudi arabia, new promenade, waterparks, cinemas and spread out across the expansive space. Also the sunrise is direct morning sun to the east - the direction it points, and afternoon sun to the west - the rear.

It will also be one of the most visited locations by 2008 - 2010.

Tourism acorss the board is growing by apx 26% p/a and this area is growing faster than the oujda region.

Unemployment has dropped from 30% apx to under 10%. The figures of this area are better than national. I would say long term and short term holds a stronger chance and more options of an extrit strategy than an isolated zone with european attractions, when we can go to spain for that. Almeria is cheaper than Saidia.

Also the transport links are basic outside of the area, and the local economy can not grow at the same speed.

I can not say much more because it will fall on deaf ears, or teracas.

But Thorr we all have our own views these are merely mine. And as I said im confident you will make money, just not confident you will make more than other areas.

You can not compare Cornwall to Saidia, or you validate my point. It relys heavily on residential tourism and is also first world. Cornwall as well has thriving businesses and strong network links. Saidia does not.

Tetouan is also a world heritage site, and very popular with eco tourists. Eco tourism board say it accounts for 10% of tourism world wide.

If you are interested in more reasons let me know. If not then thank you for reading this post.

And to clarify,I spoke to Lombardi 12 months ago, I was one of the first M O P to be assured of its start. If you want to know more teraca for your useless info bin, they carried out 25 million dollars of research into the sea bed to find the right passage. The techtonic plates are to unstable to replicate the channel tunnel or the original plans of the first med tunnel plans, it is also to busy for a bridge, so they are going for a system similar to a sub where it floats between the 2 with masses of flexibility. It will not be at the closest points due to logisitic problems.

As I said I have researched this market for nearly every real estate company you will have heard of, and businesses.

Morocco full stop is a fab investment. I just think the commision of upto 10% is why some companies are there.

All i say is compare. Then you have an open mind!

Regards!

last note: Security is not an issue. They are humble people with a strong religious view. It has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, most active anti terrorist squads and has been considered access to the EU in the future on official statements.

Teraca thank you for your genious point, read "thousands of cars will" I.e future, nt present.

If your understanding of the English language was sufficient, you would not trouble me with idiotic remarks that bare no relevance to this topic.

Regards

quote:

Originally posted by annon judge:

It will also be one of the most visited locations by 2008 - 2010.

Tourism acorss the board is growing by apx 26% p/a and this area is growing faster than the oujda region.
As I said I have researched this market for nearly every real estate company you will have heard of, and businesses.

Morocco full stop is a fab investment. I just think the commision of upto 10% is why some companies are there.

Mr. Bean, you just appeared here to counter balance the pro-Saidia arguments by putting the Smir region into discussion. And I am quite sure you work(ed) for MRI as they had inteerst in the Smir region.

You are a very simple real estate agent who tries to sell his product.

ok teraca, I work for MRI do I?

Interesting, maybe I work for SMI, MGI Palmera, Panama, Atlas, Compass? Anyone else in that area? No matter what I do or my concerns, if you review my posts I do not offer any direct advice on any aspect. I do not work in the real estate industry, just have investment portfolios that overlap. Correct my information, dont try to invalidate it by rediculous statements. And Mr. Bean? Interesting?

Where in Cali did you live for 6 years?

It appears to me that you have no idea as to what you say! And I have no interest in which company you use or do not use. I am all for defence without a voice and free statements, and no, I actually work for a global investment group. I am a director of a subsidary of a major Manhattan firm. So please do not try to argue on a level that you have no knowledge. I handle private client funds on a high level my underachieving friend.

I am from Norway with background in energy recruitment and global marketing, I moved into economics about 8 years ago after completing degrees in a Californian University, which is why I have interest in where you lived.

Your statements on all your posts seem ridiculous, and I think we would be best suited leaving your childish arguments at that.

You always come back with personal insults or outlandish comments. If you have knowledge in these fields free to type what it is you would like. If not then please do not answer a 150 line answer with a 4 line lie.

When you finish college, consider university, it may help your academia. If you don't get in, maybe I can give you a reference.

So back to your point of MRI, lets say for a second here I do. Are my points invalidated by that fact? I thought not.

I am unbiased towards any investment, I state that individuals should conduct their own research, and speak to their F.A's regarding the outlay. Never put yourself under too much debt, that is an americanised investment structure that can not suit a european market.

Have a look at "rich daddy" someone who aligns themself closely with Donald Trump, he has a succesful investment platform for the US market.

Teraca, you are too unintelligent to waiste my time on. But I enjoy you humouring me in this way.

Again, fantastic work! Yet another constructive article by yourself. BTW, mr bean was a fictionary character, he did not work for MRI. So am I mr bean, or do I work for MRI?

And if I worked for MRI why would I try to sell their products. Think things through Einstein, and btw, you answer my post with that, purely childish.

quote:

Originally posted by annon judge:
fictionary character, he did not work for MRI. So am I mr bean, or do I work for MRI?
.

Both.

wow, mature

....soooo anyway, saidia AP-5 anyone!?!?!

Annon judge - Thanks for contributing to the discussion in such detail. Interesting to hear your analysis.

Welcome also to the increasingly less select group of people accused by taraca of being agents!!!

is there any party or private group thing we can all get involved in?

Taraca, I thought I was special, obviously you tell everyone they're an agent.

And I thought it meant something. Oh well.. Life must go on.

Thank you fws, I see in every topic taraca gets involved in, it must be about critisising. You know what they say, nothing constructive to say... dont bother!

quote:

Originally posted by annon judge:
is there any party or private group thing we can all get involved in?

Taraca, I thought I was special, obviously you tell everyone they're an agent.

And I thought it meant something. Oh well.. Life must go on.

Thank you fws, I see in every topic taraca gets involved in, it must be about critisising. You know what they say, nothing constructive to say... dont bother!

OK, Sir, let's then get serious.

Let me ask you a concrete question which puzzles me: when do you think that the Spanish market will bottom out in the upcoming downward move? 2010 or later?

What about Canary Islands? When do you think will be a good time to purchase there?

I know Morocco is a comparable choice but I interested in purchasing in Spain sometimes in the medium to long future.

The Spanish property market has a sense of stability, I would say that you must be more specific. Which areas of spain, Costa del Sol? De La Luz? Almeria? inland?

Like most property markets, the demand is what drives the home price up, but it must be sustainable also. Spain will always have a massive tourism market, best climate in Europe, an established rental market, good amenities and infrastructure etc etc. Who is to say there is definately an upcoming "downward move"?

I agree it is a possibility, but a leveling off is far more likely.

2010 maybe about right. Maybe 2012. Who knows, that depends on us, the purchaser. I am not a fan of the canary islands. I have friends who live there, and from what I have heard the access is awful and the place has been going down hill for years.

I wouldnt say Morocco is a comparable choice, they offer totally different aspects of foreign ownership. Morocco is still considered an emerging market, it has a constitutional monarchy like the UK, been described by the world bank as the strongest rental market for an emerging market. On a diverse note, the government are allowing the public to vote a prime minister in open elections for the first time ever.

If you were looking to buy in Spain, I personally would look towards the costa del sol, Marbella, Rio Real, Aloha etc etc as my knowledge of living there would justify even a loss, I love the place.. as an investment I may look at Almeria (almerimar marina being expanded to be largest leisure marina in Europe) I liked the place when I was there, tourism is up, new airports, a lot of relocation, scenic, in other words raw potential for a future investment. The Costa de La Luz is lovely, but I found it hard to call that a good or a bad investment. I think it is too 50/50 at the moment, so I think you would be wise to hold off until you are actively looking, markets can change overnight. You wont look at a new car to buy in 5 years now would you?

I would also close on the fact that I do not think Spain will bottom out. It has too much in its favour. More houses being sold than ever, and more people looking. But due to certain economic pressures, a slow down looks likely, but I think it would be short term, and only in certain areas.

What are your views?

quote:

Originally posted by annon judge:
The Spanish property market has a sense of stability, I would say that you must be more specific. Which areas of spain, Costa del Sol? De La Luz? Almeria? inland?

Like most property markets, the demand is what drives the home price up, but it must be sustainable also. Spain will always have a massive tourism market, best climate in Europe, an established rental market, good amenities and infrastructure etc etc. Who is to say there is definately an upcoming "downward move"?

I agree it is a possibility, but a leveling off is far more likely.

2010 maybe about right. Maybe 2012. Who knows, that depends on us, the purchaser. I am not a fan of the canary islands. I have friends who live there, and from what I have heard the access is awful and the place has been going down hill for years.

I wouldnt say Morocco is a comparable choice, they offer totally different aspects of foreign ownership. Morocco is still considered an emerging market, it has a constitutional monarchy like the UK, been described by the world bank as the strongest rental market for an emerging market. On a diverse note, the government are allowing the public to vote a prime minister in open elections for the first time ever.

If you were looking to buy in Spain, I personally would look towards the costa del sol, Marbella, Rio Real, Aloha etc etc as my knowledge of living there would justify even a loss, I love the place.. as an investment I may look at Almeria (almerimar marina being expanded to be largest leisure marina in Europe) I liked the place when I was there, tourism is up, new airports, a lot of relocation, scenic, in other words raw potential for a future investment. The Costa de La Luz is lovely, but I found it hard to call that a good or a bad investment.

Near Almeria or near Granada would be my favourites. I would like to have both mountains and sea.

But my first choice is either Tenerife or Fuerteventura.

About the downward movement, of course it is not written in the stone... Depends on how the interest rate goes and what is the general perception over the property market. I have read that there might be another 3 raises be ECB which might take the interest rate to 4.5%. This might create problems for some owners. One issue is the evolution of house prices in UK, Netherlands and other Nordic Countries.

I think by the end of 2007 we will have a better picture. For the momont being I made some almost insignificant investments in some lots of land in Brazil and in Colorado.