Hi Galemi,
Good to hear about the resort from someone there. Please can you tell me how the development is affecting the local people? Are they wringing their hands in despair or rubbing their palms with glee? I'm just wondering what the general feel is for what is happening there. Also are you able to shed some light on the impact on the environment/ecosystem that the development is having and what local people feel about that?
I understand that Saidia has been a 'destination' for holidaying Moroccons, will they still visit do you think?
Thanks for your insight. I too hope that the development is a success as I am investing there and intend to use it myself from time to time. I am very interested in the whole area and the local people.

quote:

Originally posted by taraca:

Near Almeria or near Granada would be my favourites. I would like to have both mountains and sea.

But my first choice is either Tenerife or Fuerteventura.

About the downward movement, of course it is not written in the stone... Depends on how the interest rate goes and what is the general perception over the property market. I have read that there might be another 3 raises be ECB which might take the interest rate to 4.5%. This might create problems for some owners. One issue is the evolution of house prices in UK, Netherlands and other Nordic Countries.

I think by the end of 2007 we will have a better picture. For the momont being I made some almost insignificant investments in some lots of land in Brazil and in Colorado.

Yes, agreed. But I think your reliance of the UK property market direction to realise the direction of the Spanish market is understated. The UK continue to be the largest residential investors into Spanish homes.

Most Dutch people for example that I have come across rent, where as due to the climate of the UK a lot more people opt for a home from home in the sun.

The property market is just one sector, and tends to effect the working class as opposed to the middle and upper classes (great, we still live in an age of class) as the 2 upper classes have been getting richer over the past decade.

I spoke to some HNWI who have been helpful in terms of market direction advice, they tell me that their companies have paid out the highest bonuss and dividends ever this year, and that this year they expect (or hope) that this will happen again. In London city bonus was highest ever. A lot of people and IFAs are advising that money be put overseas, so a lot of people look towards property. I expect it to do well.

The interest rates may go up a few ticks. But I think this is temporary, with the weakness of the American market more people are actively getting involved in Europe, which effects the euroball. As deficits drop and the economic standing of Europe as a whole improves, I can see no reason why the mortgages can not drop.

This idea is reflected with Cyprus, who are able to loan is Swiss Francs, the most stable currency. The interest rates have been as low as 2.8% in the last 24 months. However I do not like Cypriot properties/country or any investment there. A backward country, with immoral leadership who couldnt run a childrens football team, it seems the success is more dependent on private individuals and organisations.

A friend of mine, once a client, has made a killing in Brazil, I would say be careful where you buy though. I have had friends with very static land acquisitions, who have then reinvested elsewhere at 2 euros per m2 under a year ago, and are now selling with licensing (cost them next to nothing to get) and are reselling at 8 euros (I work in euros). They bought 2km beach front, are keeping some and using proceeds to finance development of a number of villas on a private community.

Colorado, Im wary of America. Cant comment do not know the market. But is Colorado not very popular for global corps headquarters and technology companies? Maybe tax incentives or something similar to reits?

Good luck with it.


Granada, lovely. My sisters partner is buying there, a great night club there called BOSS if you ever fancy a night out. Granada for me is perfect, proximity to Malaga and Marbella, Ski-ing, eco tourism, the Alhambra... I used to spend weekends there. I have a friend who is an American/Spanish realtor who sells there. I would be happy to provide you a link, shes very good and I would go as far to say she can provide you with the most personal service. I don't make commision, unfortunately.

Almeria, I spent a bit of time up there, was impressed, some areas were stunning. A lot going on. I just disliked the garish prison as you approach from marbella direction.

I would say that you would do well with real estate there, just buy in a key location near the port, and go there to buy, DO NOT USE AGENTS FOR ALMERIA, the prices are pushed so highbecause people expect to pay the prices in Spain. Almeria is cheap in comparisson. I saw a place there for 80k euros near the marina, I saw a similar product, okay maybe higher specs for the British market, but equal standard of build, build style and location, but for 220 000???

You could also get a fixed mortgage, or go for interest only for 3 years, spain now offer upto 10 years interest only.

But yes, a better picture by the end of the year, but people dont get rich waiting for a sure thing, you take the risk.. its the only way


Regards

thanks zeeniebabes and alant.

I will try to keep you up to date with news. The general view of the Fadesa site here in Saidia is favourable with local people. they understand that investment in this area is a good thing. The reservations they have are twofold. firstly they have been promised infastructure changes in the past, but this did not happen. Secondly, they are a very religious community and they fear for the changes that might encourage their children to change.
The area around Saidia is mainly rural, it has Beautiful unspoilt beaches and wonderful mountain views. the locals of course do not want to see this change, and so far in my opinion the changes have had a minimal effect.
If the site brings much needed jobs, whilst maintaining the natural beauty of the area it will be a good investment for Morocco and Fadesa investors.
Just a quick note on the town of Saidia itself. It is used by Moroccans to holiday in summer when it is always full. outside of the two main holiday months of july and august it is normally quiet.

I went to the site back in February and we decided it wasn't for us. The reasons being the quality of the apartments was quite appalling, there's not a lot do or places to visit outside of the resort and generally we didn't get a 'feel' for the area. As for the locals, they felt their country was being sold off too foreigners and nothing was being done for them and as for the jobs being created they would feel like being slaves to rich foreigners. The general feeling is they ain't too happy! I know this because my hubby speaks Arabic and he asked a few people, but I guess there will always be people for and against. We were also worried about the terroism aspect as this site would be an ideal target.

exactly!!

Its like building a mosque in the middle of a christian settlement, it is to benefit outsiders.

And yes it may bring money to the local economy, but not enough to make a difference to their standards of life.

There will be no domestic tourism here, it will soon be a white elephant. Its proximity to Algeria is a problem. I would say terrorism isnt a problem, no more than anywhere else. They have less terrorists than you have in London.

Regards

Whilst I agree with some of the comments from Lita. I think that the locals her husband had talked to were not representative of the majority. I have lived in the area for 2 years i have talked with rich and poor, employed and unemployed, educated and uneducated. From my understanding they broadly welcome the investment. they see it as one of the only ways to generate jobs and to stop their children going to Europe. I also agree that the jobs created are for now a drop in the ocean. But if you had to regenerate wealth in this neglegted region what would you do.
As for an investment for you who knows wether it will grow in value. It is as I have said before unknown territory. I believe it will be, but as you are the one paying, you should make up your own mind.
The people that your husband talked to, were they not warm, friendly, inviting people who gave you a good welcome, and is that not a positive that you got from your visit.

quote:

Originally posted by annon judge:

And yes it may bring money to the local economy, but not enough to make a difference

Corfu benefitted greatly in economic terms as will Saidia.
Did you see the announcement to invest hundreds of millions in the towns infrastructure that has been approved?

The water and road systems for a start are being totaly renewed.

10 years from now Saidia will be a very prosperous town.

There are many such examples the world over of tourism transforming the fortunes of local economies.

Do you realise that many wealthy Spannish coastal towns were just poor fishing villages 30 years ago?

Yes I did realise, and that is not in question, the question is will this little village do it, not can it be done!

It will happen in Morocco, just feel the exit strategy for this development is to unclear, i believe in minimum risk, maximum reward. And I do not believe Saidia offers that. A high level investment to improve infrastructure, they HAVE to. Its barely a habitable town. Look at the Costa Del Sol, Marbella = expensive Fuengirola = cheap. They are 20 mins away, but the locals of Marbella were originally more affluent, which attracted like minded individuals, which in turn improved the economics of the area and turned it into a prosperous and still growing town.

I know some lovely areas in Spain that are cheaper than Saidia, because they are still small villages. If you plant a seed you can not be certain it will grow, or how big. But you can help make it grow, and make it grow big. You would have to plant it in the right area, give it the right conditions etc.

The improvement of local infrastructure will not be as grand as you think, picture bare roads with cheap lamp posts. Picture Marbella, flowers in the road (people can be employed as area has money to maintain these scenic extras). It may be changing, but I dont feel enough.

quote:

Originally posted by annon judge:

I know some lovely areas in Spain that are cheaper than Saidia, because they are still small villages. If you plant a seed you can not be certain it will grow, or how big. But you can help make it grow, and make it grow big. You would have to plant it in the right area, give it the right conditions etc.

Could you give us some examples of such places in Spain?

Which is the best place top look for sales of land in Spain (in English, Spanish, Italian, French or any language)?

quote:

Originally posted by annon judge:

i believe in minimum risk, maximum reward. And I do not believe Saidia offers that.

Thats the holy grail for all smart investors and my maxim for sure.

Uniqueness is what Im after and thats rare.

Show me a 5* golf and beach resort in S Spain laden with facilities and a large marina and I'll show you prices 4 x higher than Saidia just a hop over the ocean.

In the end future tourists will think just as highly of a villa in the giant Saidia resort as they would a similar Spannish one. The rent charged will not be all that much less in Saidia yet my capital outlay far far lower.

I spent a week in a charming village called Conil, towards Cadiz, stunning and some of the most beautiful beaches I have seen. Country lanes, local bars, proxile towns, scenic and touristic attractions, strong infrastructure and transport links, the hope that the new line heading through marbella to Portugal will "probrbably" pass through, strong tourism market etc etc.

I can give you a hundred places in Spain, and what was your second point about? Quieres hablar en Espanol o k? No entiendo d k preguntas pero si sabes la lengua de espana por k no sabes los sitios donde hay buenos ofertas para imobiliaria??? Je parle francais aussi, mais je'naime pas le langue! And I do not know any Italian, i dislike the arrogance of the culture. Maybe I can swap it for Norwegian, portuguese, german or a dead language we were forced to study! then explain the relevance.

The investment would be the holy grail, the principles are necessary to succeed with the holy grail, which would only materialise after you take the risk, which would mean that no risk would equal no holy grail.

It is not about the 5* golf resort, people who can afford them buy them where they want. People who buy 5* hoping someone with the money to utilise it should buy in the right place.

In investment property there is a "triangle" - Foxtons CEO showed me this, at the bottom are the majority, at the top the minority, it makes more sense, he said, for a diligent investor to buy 10 studios than one villa, you broaden a market by entering in at a more sustainable, and larger sector. Therefore, due to property being cheaper, you are minimising your risk, and second off, you have a larger market segment to sell to, strengthing exit strategy, again reducing risk. You can also sell 50% keep 50% which gives you options. And you walk away with the same profit.

I would rather have a ton of steel than a ton of gold, a it would cost me less, mark up profit would be equal as a percentage, but I can guarantee the steel will sell easier, quicker etc etc. Therefore I have entered with minimum risk, maintaining an equal margin of profit, and can assure the market is there.

For me Saidia is not a jump across the pond, it is hard to get there from southern spain in comparrison to Tangier region. The tunnel will not effect that area. If you are after uniqueness buy diamonds, every property is the same, its just a case of where. And Saidia will NEVER be Marbella, I take that back, maybe in 30 years it will be how marbella is today, but where will marbella be. I would rather have a studio in cannes for 100 000 euros than a penthouse in Saidia for 100k. I guarantee I will resell it quicker. Thorr, get there before the crowd? The crowd have been and gone. I know people that bought there nearly 2 years ago, dont get there before the crowd, get in an out before anyone else... thats the real key (or get lucky)

quote:

Originally posted by annon judge:
I can give you a hundred places in Spain, and what was your second point about?

Give me a couple of them.

I meant that I can read any site which gives information in many languages.

Im sorry, the c4 morons who decide what we are allowed to post even though I abided closely with their rules, have deleted my last post telling you good companies. You may have seen it in time. I find it surpressive in an era of freedom of speach that webmasters can dictate the information that we are able to freely trade to benefit their website, and again id have to say "bad call c4".

Anyway i recommended a company called louisebowserestates I also explained that she is a friend of a friends (freya) for reference if you speak to her. She is a genuinely lovely lady and extrememly helpful to a whole new degree. I also recommended a couple of more local agents to Conil, as Louise Bowser is granada direction. I would strongly advise looking on google at "inmobiliaria en conil, cadiz" and scowering their local agencies, I find that locals have better prices due to the demand is for locals, who do not have as much cash in most cases.

Anyway good luck and let me know what you need and I will be happy to help as much as I am able.

Regards!

Thank you, I shall look at the sites you told me.

Finally a real AP5 reply!
I have put some new photos on eyeonworldwide.com for you to see progress and also see other photos of Saidia development in general. See also the message board for my description of the photos and also information about how our visit went earlier this month.

Hello... just joined the Saidia chat. Most are talking about the Le Jarden de Fleur resort. I have put my deposit and 20% down for Villa 63 Type C at the Oasis Beach and Gold Resort. I would appreciate to hear from those who are also buying there and their thoughts and experiences negative and positive. Has anyone actually signed the main Contract - any additional clauses or amendments needed? My solictor tells me the hold up on construction is due to licences, apparently some work started prior to these being issued on the LJF resort, but was risky as they may have to amend their build etc Hence Oasis have learnt from them and are holding off now, like everyone is. Is this right, or is this a flog off and the real reason is £££ and not selling enough units? I bought my villa back in December 06 and there still are units available. This chat room sends nevousness though camp with talk about companies going bust... Oh the joys of off plan, why we do it to ourselves we never know!! Thanks for any feedback in advance, Olivia

I have a friend that is involved with a company that is based in saidia and he assures me that the prices are going up through demand ??? however I have asked him to find out about buying a berth for me and i am still awaiting some news !
does anyone out there no what berths in saidia are currently selling for ???? I no it depends on the size of the berth but they normally sell by the foot or meter.

The prices are going up by demand. Prices on The Greens have risen 17% since last september