Can anyone give us info , pitfalls etc on buying and running a swiss catered chalet operation in the Valais region of Switzerland, we have looked a resort called Anzere ( very pleasant), we could do with any sort of advice, buying, permits, mortgage companys, etc. anything!!!!
First - ignore this if you're the same people I replied to a couple of weeks ago.
Take a look at my website "www.laforet35.com" - there's a link at the bottom to my 'Guide to Buying in Switzerland' (I'm not an agent, developer etc. by the way - this is just a personal site). This runs through our experience of buying somewhere in the Valais.
We have a UBS mortgage at 2.4% fixed 2 years and so borrowing the funds in Switzerland should (currently) be cheaper than in the UK.
There's a lot of development going on in the Valais currently, and you might want to also look at Champéry (Portes du Soleil), Villars (Les Diablerets), Nendaz (Verbier), La Tzoumaz (Verbier) and Montana (Crans). Property in places like Crans, Verbier and Zermatt are astronomical in price and the places above are linked to the resorts in (brackets) anyway.
There's a trend towards building multi-apartment chalets at the moment, which might be worth considering, as it would allow more flexibility in renting. In the Valais, however, you can only buy one property so I don't know how they would classify this.
Personally, I think that the summer season is totally unexploited at the moment. Places like the 4 Valées (Verbier - La Tzoumaz - Nendaz ) have enormous potential for summer breaks which could include all levels of walking ability, cycling and mountain biking, cultural events, wine tours etc.
In Switzerland, most of the alpine ownership is private and not rented-out: 80% in Verbier and 85% in La Tzoumaz. So basically, there's a shortage of accomodation - which should be good news for you. This compares to something like 90% rental availability in Chamonix.
Hi - it was me that dave responded too, very helpful too!
We're off to Villars in a couple of weeks for a scout round - thinking of doing the same as you, catered chalet etc. What type of place are you looking for?
Hi! A suggestion: Once you have decided on a specific location, try to identify someone on the local council (Commune, not Canton) who speaks English and who has an interest in developing local businesses. For example, our local council (based in Isérables, across the valley) did a local survey recently which showed that both owners and local businesses want to extend the summer season beyond July-August. If you got close to someone on the council, it might be of mutual benefit - they could help you get established and you could strengthen their record as someone who is working for the community. Just a thought.
Hi, I have also been to Villars and found some excellent chalets for sale. We spoke to a developer who can construct chalets to your every specification and has created chalets with private living quarters and separate guests rooms just for this purpose. The great thing about Villars is that the seasons seem to be longer than most of the other resorts. Winter skiing is boosted by the 3000 meter glacier (which gives almost year round skiing) and summer by the proximity to Lake Geneva, the walking and mountaineering etc. I dontt think you will go far wrong with that location + the Brits love it there. In the uk the agent selling these chalets are Swiss Property Sales www.swissproperty.co.uk take a look.
Hope all goes well.
quote:
Originally posted by NorthernGirl: Hi - it was me that dave responded too, very helpful too!
We're off to Villars in a couple of weeks for a scout round - thinking of doing the same as you, catered chalet etc. What type of place are you looking for?
Hi everyone It's us again, currently we are having problems trying to find the best way to finance our property, we have our hose on the market in UK, but are looking for an 80% mortgage in Switzerland. Has anyone got any ideas; the only income we will have is from our catered chalet business, and we have a full workable business plan for this, but obviously people do not like lending with out proof of income!! any ideas please let us know.
I can see your problem. How about a 'test-run' for a season/year? You approach a chalet owner who rents privately and offer to take the place for a whole season in return for a discount. Give it a go, and at the end of the season you can 'prove' the economics are viable. You'd then have a track-record of success you could take to a bank, and you haven't had to take on the risk of a big mortgage from day-1. You would also be able to scout around the area and get the feel of the market much better.
Forget about Switzerland its time is over. Look to the future and buy in Bulgaria. The skiing is nearly as good and property prices are a tenth of what they are in Switzerland.
Rubbish. The skiing is definitely inferior. Prices are cheaper because, among other things, it's barely feasible to drive there, it's uncertain whether cheap flights will continue indefinetly, not many Brits speak Bulgarian, and I daresay locals can't believe how many foreigners imagine they can make a profit from property just because someone on a website says it's the next Big Thing.
You are definitely right Dave, Switzerland is in a different league ! I have visited several times, skied many of the resorts and am now looking to buy an apartment or maybe a small chalet. I hear that Villars and Nendaz are possibly the most popular resorts with reasonable property prices. I think that rental in these resorts would be acievable when I am not using the property. I have also read that property in these two resorts are likely to gain in value over the next few years. I am leaning towards a newbuild property because of the build guarantees, tax implications and ease of obtaining a purchase permit. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this ?
There shouldn't really be a problem with permissions to buy second-hand in any tourist resorts. The main constraint is if you have a load of land around a chalet, and I would doubt that as a non-local, you'd go for this anyway. I must say that a lot of the newbuild seems relatively expensive to me, compared to the same square meters of existing property.
Villars and Nendaz are being heavily developed, as is Ovronnaz (the latter has a thermal spa as well) and I would guess that property values are rising. But none of these has that big a ski area - each is only about 15% the size of the Verbier area. In summer, this probably won't matter as most places have lots of paths and bike trails. But in winter, you could quickly get bored. Nendaz is linked to the 4 Valleys (Thyon/Veysonnaz/La Tzoumaz/Verbier) but there's only one telecabine and the connection is circuitous.
If you are a summer person, then there's a lot of choice, and you may even prefer to be in somewhere more seculded. You have a lot of choice in the Valais.
If you are a skier, then you can't get away from the fact that the biggest ski area is the 4 Valleys and Verbier is at it's heart. La Tzoumaz is only a short connexion from Verbier and has 50Kms of its own pistes. But it is not really a beginner's area, and the town itself is quiet. However, it has the 2/3-bedroom apartments in plenty that Verbier lacks (at a reasonable price, anyway). It also seems a lot cheaper for chalets and apartments than most places - possibly because it's North-facing and pretty quiet. In the summer, however, the telecabine only runs July-August so this could be a bit limiting (although there's a push to extend this).
So it's going to depend of a combination of factors, as always.
Slightly off the subject but can anyone give me an idea of the annual taxes you have to pay on property in Switzerland. I am talking about a holiday property in Canton Valais, not rented out (if you rent out I believe it's different) and ownwd by a non-resident. I've seen a lot of properties but haven't been able to understand how the local taxes are estimated. The sellers will give you an estimate but they seem to differ substantially. Found a site that talks about 1.3% of property but that seems execssive to me. Hope someone can help. Thanks,
Taxes for my 68m2 apartment in La Tzoumaz last year were as follows (in CHF):
120 Tourist Tax 123 Commune Tax 128 Canton Tax
The Tourist Tax is for our private use of the place, based on two of us with intermittent, non-resident use for a year. When we rent-out, the client is charged a daily-rate Tourist Tax which the agency sends directly to the Commune.
We're also paying around 70 CHF a year for 3 years for a special project to improve water and sewage to the village.
The annual building charge of CHF 2400 to the Immobilier is far and away the biggest single cost. This covers recurrent management items, refurbishment, renewal, insurance, and Conciege's salary.
Broadband also seems to be relatively expensive compared to the UK, and fastest speeds are x3-x4 what I pay at home.
Apologies - start again: I used the wrong spreadsheet. here's the figures for the last 12 months ( I thought the Commune tax was low!):
120 Tourist Tax (on Owner's use of apt.) 791 Commune Tax 115 Canton Tax
Other charges:
70 Cable Radio & TV 480 Electricity Charges 2475 Building Management, Upkeep, Concierge etc.
The Concierge runs a cleaning and laundry service for residents and clients. Cleaning is CHF 30 (very thorough) but 80 CHF for a set of laundry is a bit steep - it's actually cheaper to buy new sheets in the Supermarket!.
Thanks for taking the trouble of going through your accounts. I'm looking at property of a similar size to yours so a budget figure of around SFr 1000 a year (just tax) seems OK.
I have really appreciated the info you shared with us and I am very interested in purchasing an apartment in La Tzoumaz. I wouldn't use it primary for myself, but I would give priority to renting it out, as a kind of investment and to be sure to cover ALL expenses.
I am pretty curious to know if you have plenty of requests for renting your place or not (both for the winter and for the summer season). I know you prefer renting on a friends basis, but I have noticed that in all the rental websites (like Interhome) there are plenty of apartments to rent in La Tzoumaz, so I guess there is plenty of competition. To be clearer, is it realistic to rent the place out for 80% of the weeks during the skiing season?
Also, does La Foret have a sauna in the building for residents to use?
Its interesting to see this thread has been running since April this year and still going strong. Long may the interest continue.
We've just bought one of the new chalet style apartments off plan in Haute Nendaz, Valais after doing extensive research earlier this year on the best place for secure steady Capital Growth on our investment with great rental potenial in a safe market and would recommend the region with all the cute villages linked on this ski domain to everyone.
The swiss are fresh out of a recession and are returning to the mountains so property prices are on the up and occupancy is steadily climbing. Not sure if anyone is aware but many apartments and chalets used to rent out for 40 weeks of the year!
Once you choose Switzerland for your second home suggest you go look. We choose the 4 Valleys as it has links across 400km of skiing as well as 14 hours of sun a day in the summer without any of the headaches of mist rolling off Lake Geneva in some of those closer making it a great dual resort.
Our constructor has been fantastic. We've seen property they've built to give us ideas, we had a local 80% mortgage arranged and just returned from choosing our Kitchen/Bathroom etc with our own English speaking personal shopper provided by them to make things simpler.
I would say as a tip steer clear of those giving guaranteed rental income. We found out its a con as they add approx 25% to the building cost and give you some of your own money back making out its rental returns.
Hope this is of help and anyone wanting more info please drop a thread and I'll reply. Happy hunting!
Re. renting - I would say that if you gave an agency complete carte blance over bookings, and leaned on them a bit, then you'd probably get your 80% target from the winter season. This would amount to around ten weeks, which is more than enough to cover an apartment's running costs.
The problem arises when you start reserving weeks yourself, either for your own use, or for people you know. My feeling is that the agencies much prefer it if all you want is to maximise bookings and not mess them about.
Actually, it's turning-out that summer, rather than winter, is generating more private bookings. I think that this is because in summer, you could go for a week for just, say, £60 airfare, £50 train/bus and perhaps £25 in telecabine charges, then the £150-£200 we charge for a private rental. It's a much less serious commitment than a winter holiday.
Residence Laforet does indeed have a sauna. We've never used it ourselves, but the Concierge is very friendly, and I'm sure he'd be happy to oblige.
But what I would say is that La Tzoumaz is still more of a backwater than places like Nendaz or Ovronnaz. I think that the mainly Swiss owners want to keep it as a good ski base (which it is) but not over-developed, so there's not going to be the big PR investment or any more hotels /restaurants /shops /bars built. Most English-speaking owners I've talked to have seni-seriously said "keep quiet - it's fine as it is" - good skiing and access; direct links to Verbier, almost no lift queues; and relatively unknown. Who wants more development? ___________________
TopperT
I'm glad that your Nendaz investment is working out so well. I think that like Ovronnaz it's a good location for getting rentals. And it's definitely more lively than La Tzoumaz without being as outrageously expensive as Verbier!
One other thing: The winter of 2004-5 saw heating costs about 20% over budget. There were a couple of very cold weeks (despite the warm Easter), plus oil prices jumped. So the heating budget for 2005-6 is about +15%.
I wouldn't let this put you off - there are still significant advantages to a central heating/hot water. I've used apartments with self-contained immersion and electric heating and it's a dead loss: you're always running out of hot water and the fabric of the place seems colder.
But it is worth being aware that this is an important cost item.
One other thing: The winter of 2004-5 saw heating costs about 20% over budget. There were a couple of very cold weeks (despite the warm Easter), plus oil prices jumped. So the heating budget for 2005-6 is about +15%.
I wouldn't let this put you off - there are still significant advantages to a central heating/hot water. I've used apartments with self-contained immersion and electric heating and it's a dead loss: you're always running out of hot water and the fabric of the place seems colder.
But it is worth being aware that this is an important cost item.
Thanks Dave, think its good to have info shared like this for people researching and looking to buy. Our Constructor went through all of the yearly costs with us when we met them in the summer so we went into purchase with "eyes open". Also solid construction not prefab so "loads" of insulation. Was -9 when over there last week choosing kitchen etc.
As they are small construction company and we've been so impressed with the service and friendliness am currently setting up a website for them to promote their developments in Valais for the UK market.
Rental is one of the key things we are depending on. We have already spoken to Interhome who are offering big reductions on costs for marketing 4* or 5* as these are in short supply.
Most of these 4*/5* 6+ apartments and Chalets are booked for +10 weeks just in the Winter and Interhome offer you 1/3 of the High Season to offer for rental yourself.
I do agree though the Summer is the untapped market and the Swiss are now starting to realise this and actively promote this period with the "Wellness and Well Being" concept.
Next visit for us now is Summer 2006 to see how construction is going!
Feedback does seem to be that chalets and the bigger apartments are more readily rentable, but with the downside that an unrented week is proportionally more of a hole in your finances.
The other thing is that German, Dutch and Danish clients apparently book much later than Brits. Presumably because we have the cross-channel cartel problem, whereas mainland Europeans can check the conditions, book on the 'phone/web, then just hop in a car and go.
The downside of this is that the Swiss customer base may be more sensitive to poor weather consditions. So in a really bad year there's more drop-off in business than for locations with more package tour business.
Re. being over - Yes, we were there last week for a short break. Lots of snow on Friday night and Saturday and we needed the municipal snowplough before we could drive out without chains. All of which is an encouraging start to the season, as this means a sounder base then last year.
