Hi Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you, i thought this forum had long gone! We used Genolet promotions SA based in Heremence to renovate our chalet, infact we bought it from them so plans etc were already done. You can find their details at www.genolet.ch. With regards the Cable and internet, we have just had it installed through swisscom. they happened to be in the village and the builder emailed us to let us know that they were there. I know people that have taken a free view box out to France and picked up british TV programmes but dont know if this works or is illegal or anything. If you get cable then you should be able to pick up some english speaking TV. Hop this is not too late - maybe you have started renovations already - let me know how you get on

kind regards

quote:

Originally posted by Loup:
GsC

Hoping that you pick this post up as the thread seems to have been dead for over 6 months.

Interested in what you said about renovating an old chalet in Les Collons.

We have just bought an old chalet just below Les Collons and will be looking to renovate at some point. Don't suppose you could give us the name and number of the builder that you used.

Also, we are struggling to get information about satellite TV and the best way of getting British TV channels and who can install, provide etc. We have emailed other local chalets but no one seems willing to help. Do you have any useful info?

With thanks

Be very careful when getting a chalet built. Make sure you don't hand any money over until they have completed various stages. Make sure the builder signs a build schedule with a large penalty claus for non completion.

Martial Cheseax is building my chalet in La Tzoumaz. He is two years behind schedule. I have emailed him every day for the past two months and have phoned him everyday. He deliberately ignores all contact, unless he wants some money from you.

I have spoken to some other people who have been caught out by this conman. One has paid in full and can't get him to finish it. They also can't get hold of him.

Crikey, that's a horror story and you have my sympathy. We are also having a chalet built at La Tzoumaz by Gauye & Dayer and we are also running a season late, we should have had the build completed last November but it will be this November - however we have a project manager in place who reports to us every 2 weeks and sends us pix of the ongoing development. The roof will be on at the end of this month and we are due there next month to agree a stage payment. The project manager also sold the site to us and although we didn't have to engage his services it's been worth every CHF. The bank are also party to a joint 3 way account between us and the builder and funds can't be drawn down unless we are all in agreement. I never heard of Monsr. Cheseax and thankfully we managed to avoid him. Our managing agent is a multi lingual german, Dieter Hiss, and we and 3 other buyers all came by him in different way, us by chance via the interweb, and the others by separate recommendations from already satisfied customers. I really can't recommend him highly enough but I'm not sure how you'd go about sorting out your sorry scenario - maybe the original Notaire?

So good luck with it and thanks for the warning which anyone buying in Switzerland should heed. I suspect things have turned out ok for us in spite of and not because any particular due diligence which we've carried out.

Best regards,

Ruddsy boy

Feb 2006 I went to La Tzoumaz to sign up with Dieter Hiss. The only reason I didn't was that Cheseaux promised the completion in 2006. I also went with him because he has a shop in the village and is Swiss. What a bad move!

Martial Cheseaux is in the office on the main street. Cheseaux et Cie Immoblier. The one with the funny snowscape scene in his window. He comes across excellently and speaks very good english. This is how he manages to suck people in.

Martial Cheseaux also signed a build shedule and a document saying he would send a photo every week. He has just completely ignored it.

The main problem is he won't answer any contact and when you go over there he just makes promises and will even sign to them. As soon as you leave he ignores those promises.

I think I'll contact the notaire. I will find a solicitor as well, but I'm just not sure how the legal system works over there. In england it would be relatively easy as I have so much documentation to support what he has done.

Now I've spoken to a few locals and other people who are having chalets done by him, it has become obvious that he has a very bad reputation.

Where abouts is your chalet in La Tzoumaz? Is it the one by the Chappelle bus stop?

Regards

I have reserved an apartment in Pracondu 2 but have as yet not parted with any 'real' money. I like the development - the site is fantastic right next to the main tele cabine. Nendaz is a cracking town - plenty of shops/restaurants etc but not overly commercial or priced! The apartments are small - 57m squre for a 2 bedroom - but not nearly as small as some french schemes - and I think offer real value for money.
The Transmontagne situation is of great concern. The part of the leaseback payments that come in vouchers are meant to be useable in any Transmontagne resort - a little difficult if they are all closed! Also if another operator can/needs be found - will they offer as much to the owners as Transmontagne did - when the operation is clearly in distress?
I would urgently like to hear from other Pracondu owners as soon as possible so we can compare notes.

quote:

Originally posted by triedandtested:
Feb 2006 I went to La Tzoumaz to sign up with Dieter Hiss. The only reason I didn't was that Cheseaux promised the completion in 2006. I also went with him because he has a shop in the village and is Swiss. What a bad move!

Martial Cheseaux is in the office on the main street. Cheseaux et Cie Immoblier. The one with the funny snowscape scene in his window. He comes across excellently and speaks very good english. This is how he manages to suck people in.

Martial Cheseaux also signed a build shedule and a document saying he would send a photo every week. He has just completely ignored it.

The main problem is he won't answer any contact and when you go over there he just makes promises and will even sign to them. As soon as you leave he ignores those promises.

I think I'll contact the notaire. I will find a solicitor as well, but I'm just not sure how the legal system works over there. In england it would be relatively easy as I have so much documentation to support what he has done.

Now I've spoken to a few locals and other people who are having chalets done by him, it has become obvious that he has a very bad reputation.

Where abouts is your chalet in La Tzoumaz? Is it the one by the Chappelle bus stop?

Regards

No we are further up the hill, near the new roundabout by the highest ski lif, about 85 metres away. We did look at plots near the Chapelle but decided to pay a bit more to get higher up the resort. I have to say that pretty everything that Dieter said would happen has, and more or less when he said it would. Although a year late I suspect that a number of factors have contributed to this but we can't be too unhappy at the way things are resolving themselves. Presumably you own the land and maybe could consider giving him formal notice that you are cancelling the building contract. I guess that would mean engaging an alternative builder and a further delay but I wonder if you have much left to lose? Have you tried contacting the Commune of Riddes and complaining to them - they may be able to bring some pressure to bear. Otherwise it's starting to sound like one for m'learned friends I'm afraid. I know of 3 other buyers through Dieter at La Tzoumaz who all seem pretty with progress on their builds so I'm sure we are not just a couple of lucky punters. FWIW, I agree with Dave from Shoreham on Sea (a regular contributor here and whose website is most useful) that La Tzoumaz is going to be a pretty handy investment medium term and the proximity to Verbier at a significant discount has to be well worth the investment. Stick with it mate!

Best regards,

Ruddsy boy

tried&tested: Sorry to hear about your problems, as this is pretty unusual for Switzerland. I do know that the weather has been very bad for constructors over the last year - there were serious floods last autumn and the spring weather was much colder than usual. This seems to have delayed a lot of mountain building works throughout the Valais and Vaud. I also imagine that anyone working close to their limits could easily get into schedule and financial trouble.

My only advice might be to approach another constructor, explain the situation to them, and see if they are prepared to take on the work. There is also a business association, AMICASAA (or something similar), for constructors in the Valais. If you look at the Carron website there's a link: they may also be able to help.

TaT: I agree with Dave, one of the reasons for our late start was the sub-contractors who do the groundworks, terracaing etc. were delayed elsewhere and couldn't get on site until the begining of July instead of late May. Plus, it's actually snowing at some elevations there today! Mind you, none of it is an excuse for shoddy customer care and like Dave I'm really surprised at what's gone on as we have been pleasantly surprised at the standards all round (especially given our recent travails with the building trades here at home). Once again, good luck and hope you can salvage something from the situation.

Ruddsy boy

TaT: Sorry for the confusion - The Trade association I was thinking of is USPI, the Union Suisse des Professionnels de l'Immobilier. The name AMICASA is the company name of the Carron Architect/Building practice. So it might be worth seeing if your Immobilier/Developer is a member of USPI and if he is, whether they can bring any pressure to bear.

Thanks for all your advice.

Martial Cheseaux is just a bad egg. Although there may have been bad weather etc, there is no excuse for the lies and deliberately not responding to communication. I've spoken to a few other people who started in 04 and are still waiting for a finish. So I think he is pretty consistent. I also spoke to a guy that had one built 10 years ago by him!

The solicitor I am in communication with seems commented that Martial Cheseux is 'still up to his old tricks of ripping tourists off'.

Apparently he is equally bad at dealing with and paying his suppliers, which is probably why when they are busy, none of them want to work for him.

As soon as the summer shutdown is over I will go over and speak to him, the solicitor and some of the suppliers and then I will have to take action to end the contract and recover the money he owes me.

It's hard work!

I see the new Gondola at Tzoumaz is under construction. Great news for all owners there.

http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.asp?intStoryID=4906

Is the link.

Reading through all the posts here of people looking to buy a chalet/apartment in the alps to rent out. I have a buy to holiday let for those wishing a ski holiday in Aviemore - ho ho ho - one weekend a year and then the road is blocked. My advice would be make sure you are extremely confident of your local management company. I am 2 hours away from our place and it is far more stressful than I ever imagined. Although we have not had any major problems you have to remember you are dealing with people's holidays and quite rightly they have very high expectations. It may only be another weeks booking to you but it is there big fun week. If somthing goes wrong in another country it is obviously not easily rectified.

hello, I've just found this site which I've found very useful.

Wilson 63, I too have reserved an apartment at Pracondu 2, as has a good friend of mine and we are also interested in hearing from others in the same position, as well as owners of Pracondu 1. Savills assure us that everyone else who has reserved is going ahead - does that apply to you? We have said we are considering our position.

We went in for this leaseback as hassle free when backed by the apparently solid Transmontagne, and good value per sq m. Ha Ha!

The best scenario is that Transmontagne pulls through, but if it does not will it drag Alpvision down with it? Alpvision is said to be ring fenced from Transmontagne, but we've seen no evidence of that. Can anybody shed any light?

If anything happens to Alpvision, I believe a new manager has to be found to take the lease on the same terms, if not Tele Nendaz have to take it on the same terms. Does anyone know anything about Tele nendaz's standing?

Apparently we can terminate the lease for serious breach - so that may be an option if there is any attempt to renegotiate the terms of the lease. But I'm trying to find out if there is any cantonal restriction on us taking the ownership of the flat, and how many of us flat owners would have to agree to terminate the lease.

As yet, I have not signed up, although I have all the papers. My mate is off there next week to try and meet someone from the developer - nobody seems to be able to arrange a meeting with someone from Alpvision.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by orka:
information about Pracondu
In the residence Pracondu there are three company’s involved
Alpine homes a daughtercompany in Switzerland of Savills who is responsable for the commercial activitity
Genvalco is the swiss building company in Versoix who baught the places to built from Telenendaz the swiss lift company
Alpvision is the Swiss daughtercompany of Transmontage who runs the lease back scheme.
Transmontagne is in serious financial problems because of the bad winter in France at low levels where they have a lot of lease back places
When Transmontagne isnt’ able anymore to run his company and pay the rents to the owners telenendaz will search for a new company to run this activity because even in this bad winter in Nendaz the activities are progressed in about 2 % and the Pracondu residence was occupied for 80 % thus there are companies ready to take over because of the good rental facilities in Nendaz.
When there are buyers in the forum let me please know of this information is not corect please[/QUOTE

This is broadly also my understanding from the papers and my discussions with notaire and Savills.

The Pracondu development is a Swiss leaseback. The land is owned and the flats will be built by Genvalco (who my notaire says is a well known developer. The flats are to be leased back immediately on purchase to Alpvision for 15 years. Alpvision are owned 90% by Transmontagne, 10% by local owners (I don't know who). Alpvision also own part of TeleNendaz, the lift company (I think 30%). Telenendaz are limited backers of the deal to the extent that they undertake to find a new manager of the property on the same terms of the lease if Alpvision terminate the lease, although the documentation wording suggests that this obligation only exists if there are cantonal or federal restriction on foreign ownership.(Frankly, I'd rather take the flat freehold if Alpvision default).

The agents are Savills and Alpine Homes - which are connected.

The big attraction of the deal is that unlike French leasebacks, you are guaranteed freehold ownership of the property at the end of the 15 year term. The lease cannot be renewed without your consent. In addition, we thought that it was a good deal as the flats are cheap (compared to France) and cheerful with a fantastic ski in location just up from the gondola (I don't think its ski out, you'll have to walk 200 yards down the mountain to the lifts).

I don't have the figures to hand but from memory: the rental return is 3.9% (mistakenly referred to as 4% on Savills documentation) of which something like 1.5 or 1.6% is taken in rental vouchers for use against your flat, or any other Transmontagne property. The cash part of the rental return should (on current figures, which may of course change) cover all outgoings including the interest on a standard 60% mortgage (although Fortis will lend 75% with 15% repaid over 10 years).

Our present view is that if we can be satisfied that Alpvision is indeed ringfenced from Transmontagne, or that Telenendaz can be compelled to step in and find a new manager/take over itself ON THE SAME TERMS, then the deal is still worth doing.

Anybody else's thoughts greatfully received. Orka, you sound like you have local knowledge!

Hi Eason
A friend of my has bought an apartment in pracondu I
There is a difference between I and II. the lease is in fact 4 % in stead of 3.9 % for pracondu II like you said.
I am positive about this lease back because the price is in fact more than 1000 CH / sqm lower than equal apartments but it is only for buyers who like to two or three times a year and not more and I think they can resolve the problem with transmontagne because like I said Nendaz is in the lift.
Next winterseason the pracondu residence will be available by Crystal ski for the first time.
My concern is more the fact that telenendaz need more money for the skilifts and a fusion of televerbier and televeysonnaz and telenendaz would be better to obtain better skifacilities and second there are signs of overbuiding. Nendaz has for the moment almost 20000 beds
The direct connecting between Nendaz and Verbier is not always open and they must invest money to obtain a better connection. Telenendaz has in fact a problem with the WWF about a permission to use snowcanons in the region of the Prarion but maybe there are other solutions

Thanks Orka, very helpful. I tend to assume that if the number of hot beds grow, then the case for investment by the lift companies grows too, and the easier it is to raise the money.

Eason - great to hear from you. Whilst I have my reservations I am probably going ahead with my purchase. I am awaiting the foreign office to conclude my 'apostille' procedure so that has bought me a bit of time. It is worrying though - I mean if the whole Alpvision/Transmontagne thing collapses are TeleNandez vulnerable? I have been to Nendaz/Les Collons etc several times - I think it is a great place - I am not concerned about connections to Verbier as I don't really want to go there too often anyway - there is plenty of skiing from Siviez. If there is snow at the altitude of the Pracondu apartments they are definitely ski in - there is a branch of the main run straight to the back door.
My overall view if somehow it will all get sorted out - possibly with a new operator - there is still 4 months till completion - and the fallback of normal freehold ownership is still there.

Eason if you want to contact me e-mail on fraser.malcolm@tesco.net - cheers.

Thanks Wilson 63 - I've sent you an email.

Just joined the forum. Also building in La Tzoumaz through Dieter Hiss. I was recommended Dieter through a friend that has had their chalet built and it surpassed all expectations. There have been a few issues but Dieter's approach has been up front and professional. I would recommend him highly to date.

My completion date is about 9 months behind. It would appear that those that have their Swiss ownership permits are getting preferential treatment even though you can take out a bond. My own view is that there is just too much work on the books for the local builders resulting in delay. On the money side you i) pay for the land ii) pay the first instalment for the chalet once the roof is on iii) Final payment when handed over.

Hi djf, we're off to La Tzoumaz in 10 days or so to meet Dieter and check the roof is on. Happy to take pix of yours if you want, just let me know and we'll exchange e-mail addresses off-line or get Dieter to confirm your address instead. I'm meeting him on 10th September at 11.00 so he'll know who we are - unless we are already in touch via jerseymail?! I agree with all you've said, it's been a bit of a haul but then d appears in sight, on site!

Kind regards,

Ruddsyboy

Good morning

I stumbled across this forum when looking at sites for purchasing an apartment in Switzerland and have been very interested by your discussions. I was initially looking at a place in Leukerbad and visited Leukerbad this Summer, however, I thought that it was expensive for a one bed. It was with a 5 year guaranteed rental which seemed quite attractive though. A friend recommended Nendaz and the Pracondu development which again seems attractive but with the problems raised in this forum would seem to be quite a risk. I visited Dave from Shoreham's website which was most interesting and informative - thank you Dave, and would now consider buying privately. The vente au etranger seems a very sensible option. I don't know La Tzoumaz or Nendaz but do know Verbier quite well. Both places seem to be rated quite highly here. There is currently an apartment with Carron Immobilier vente au etranger in La Tzoumaz. There seem to be so many different options! I'm still attracted by the guaranteed rental as it all seems so easy but I understand that you're basically paying more for it. Are those people signed up for Pracondu still going ahead? Would be interested to hear any comments advice.

Regards Claydon

Hi Claydon. A number of people have suggested that you are actually paying less for pracondu than the market rate for a new build because of the leaseback which is not v. popular with the swiss- certainly not many flats around which compare on price.
Apparently all the reservations for pracondu are proceeding. I am proposing to go ahead, but with eyes open. My mate has had a long meeting with developer, and I've had a long chat with notaire. There is no doubt that the Transmontagne situation is worrying, but from what we are told, Alpvision is ringfenced and very profitable. If it fails Tele Nendaz (who own the lifts) is committed to finding a new manager on the same terms, or taking over itself - and TN is supposed to be very strong. The word is that this is regarded as a key development by the canton as a solution for the provision of hot beds, and that it will not be allowed to fail. There's no doubt there'll be aggro if alpvision goes under, but I think the scheme is basically sound - maybe not for the fainthearted.