Berlin is listed as the top city to invest in by overseas property TV magazine (Expect to see the gurus peddling the death out of the place on the telly) There are those amongst us have been saying for the last couple of years and there are those amongst us have been scoffing - bet you wished you'd listened way back then. Dresden and Leipzig next. And remember you laughed when you were alerted to Berlin.
I've spent some time this evening reading through all the back references to Germany. There is a lot of misinfo going on for reasons best known only to the perps. Those in the know will just carry on clearing up so I'M guessing it's those pouring in the big bucks who are doing the talking down to protect their little gold field. Don't listen to anyone else, if you have a genuine interest in Germany as a place to live and work or just to diversify a bit of your hard earned dosh then go and take a look for yourself. It may not be for you. It certainly is for me - love the place, wish I'd listened to my brother who was in the RAF over there and kept telling me how beautiful, cheap and pleasant it all was - never, ever thought I'd end up living half the year there and spending the other half planning ways to make it all year round
Why would people who have invested be talking prices down? Surely they would do the opposite?
I do live and work in Germany and, from what I see, the picture is not clear cut .
Some people suggest the stagnation of the last 10-15 years means the time is ripe for price rises. Others that the market is a dead duck.
Yes, parts of it are cheap and there are many reasons for that. These include preference for renting, a feather-bedded welfare state (so no worries about picking up lifelong housing costs), buyers wanting new builds, controls over lending, declining population, relatively high unemployment, lax planning rules, etc.
The bet you make is how these will change in the next few years.
But prices are as high as anywhere in Europe in the sought after areas. Some of my friends have paid eye-watering prices - million euros plus - and for apartments, not houses. I also know people who bought speculatively in the early 90s post-unification euphoria (including in Berlin) and cannot sell or even rent those places out.
What I often find when people say property in the richer parts of Europe is "cheap" is that they refer to property that they would turn their noses up at in the UK - in a concrete apartment block, a "down at heel" area with few amenities or similar.
Vbland. I currently own 4 apts in Berlin two locally rented and two for holiday let, a small house on the lake near Potsdam, I have two holiday rentals in the Schwarzwald, two huge flats in Dresden, a flat above a shop in Meissen (In a real mess but a beautiful historical building and once it's finished I foresee it being my biggest hols rental)I'm waiting for the ink to dry on the purchase of a chalet in Stralsund. I own 25% of a block of 12 flats in Rudesheim and my own house (an old rickety farm house in the Mosel valley. Not bad for 7 years work when I started with £5,000 and traded my way to my present hoard. I also have a few more props in Florida, Scottish Highlands and the Vendee. Sold all my Spanish flats (4) at top whack to finance Germany - I am a very happy man indeed. I don't say this in any sort of smart-arsed way, I am just a normal bloke who took a bit of a gamble and it paid off. I tell you this because I want to shout Germany from the rooftops. I know one investor who owns, the last time I spoke to him 50+ properties in Munich and the old eastern states. He along with others investing in Germany have been talking the market down at every opportunity as 50 houses isn't enough and he wants to continue buying at the current depressed prices. Just what his level of satisfaction is going to be 100-200 who knows. That is when he and his kind will start doing the area the justice it deserves. Look back through some of the old postings on this forum about Germany - he's there under a couple of different guises - I've identified him every time and it's become a bit of a joke between us when we meet. So, I hope this answers your question, a bit long winded but I have a point to make Making two purchases this year - a block of flats in Leipzig and that chalet in Stralsund - these will be long term investments. I am going to sell all but one of the log cabins in Scotland to finance the purchase and restoration.
In the Guardian 17/02 was an article about property prices in Germany. The overall opinion was that the 'sleeping giant' would not wake up in the near future e.g. property prices would rise very much. Of course, if you buy an expensive property in Berlin, Hamburg etc. you will always find a buyer but the market outlook is fairly bleak. I am speaking from my own experience having tried to sell a property in G. for the last 20 months. Property consists of 2 flats, each 90 m2 in a nice village about 25 km south of Koblenz. The house is 35 years old and in good condition. When I put it on the market the estate agent (relative of friend) told me that the house would not increase in value and that modernisation would not pay. Anyway, yesterday somebody made an offer for E90.000. Of course, this offer seems ridiculous when you compare it to British property prices. Sorry for rambling on, but I think you really have to know what you want to do with the property. Even renting out is sometimes difficult and any property costs money e.g. insurance, rates.
Continental, I'm not prepared to go over all the tired old arguements. Look through the varous posts on Germany and you'll find gloom and doom if you wish to see it and you'll find those on cloud nine if you wish to. For every article that preaches doom you'll find two doing the opposite. LOOK AT WHO IS INVESTING AND WHY. No you're right 90k is not a lot by Uk standards but then if the market was by Uk standards none of us would be investing there would we? It's exactly because right now we can find properties in a nice area such as yours that we are getting on planes and looking. It was exactly that reason that started us all looking in France/Spain/Italy before they started approaching UK prices. I guess the big question now is, do you sell at ridiculous prices like 90k now or do you hold on for a while to see what you can get five years from now - only you can answer that based on how much you need the money, how patient you are and how much faith you put in the German people to bounce back from the doldrums - history has shown they are a group of people almost impossible to keep down for long - Where are you going to put your faith - I know where I'm putting mine.
Linsab, There are many agents advertising, especially in Berlin - it's becoming a feeding frenzy. I understand I cannot give out e-mails addresses/tel phone numbers for fear of being banned. Property Source in Spandau and Saxony Properties in Redditch are two I've used and had positive dealings but there are many other reputable agencies you could consider - just make sure you know why you want Berlin as opposed to Dubai or Kuala Lumpur, it's wonderful for 9 months of the year but I can tell you from experience the winters ain't much fun in any city - that's when you want to be near the mountains. Horses for courses though and you must make up your own mind based on your own needs
No you're right 90k is not a lot by Uk standards but then if the market was by Uk standards none of us would be investing there would we?
I am not sure I can say much about this becuase I live in a part of Germany where the market is relatively "mature". It has the highest per head income in Germany and prices (relative to other parts of Germany reflect that).
There seems to be a real parallel market. You can get older 1 bed flats for about 60k (GBP) or two beds for 100k. The risk you seem to face on an older and cheap one is re-sale. It is a real "parallel" market.
But top spec new builds are three times that- I know cos I am buying one .
I know people who have done very well out of property here. I also know people who ended up with "dogs".
there are only two types of property to be had. firstly the one that you buy with a view to make money and secondly the that you buy to make home. I remember all those silly conversations way back in the 80's about how much the price of my property had gone up this month. well much older and wiser now although the price did go up the value didnt as everything else went up as well. if you want to make money in property you always have to speculate in a cheaper area from which you are selling. but if you just want the best home possible in the nicest area it doesent matter a jot how much you pay for it as your not going to sell it again. whats the point of owning a half million pound house in england when three quarters is mortgage anyway and if you sold it you couldnt buy another. I think weve all been conned. remember when your granny used to say we only paid 300 pounds for this house BUT have been here for 40 years. think on greedy speculators
Gentlemen, Hear, Hear, The individuals likely to get the most out of Germany as it stands now are: A. A younger person with money they do not need to get their hands on for a long time and are willing to sit back, rent it out if possible but not have to hand it back to the bank if it does not. B. The retiree who wants to be able to afford a nicer house than they could in the UK, don't mind having to learn a foreign language and live with a slightly lower cost of living with their fixed income. The losers will be the gamblers/speculators/dreamers/tossers - call em what you will, Gatwick departure lounges are full of 'em. (Just a shame they don't stay there) Is there a more exciting city than Berlin? Not in my experience - others may disagree. I lived there for a couple of years and deeply regretted accepting another post overseas which closed the door for ever on the particular opportunity I was involved in at that time.
hi itotaly agree i take it there are some spercial people living inthat are at the moment i lived berlin 15 yers ago cant wait to come back carol hi jim
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