Hi there Anyone out there buying on this development? We've put a deposit on a two-bed apartment and are awaiting contracts. Can anyone recommend a good English speaking lawyer in the area? We were recommended a firm called Costa Barros but have noticed their names appear on the draft contract we were given by our agent. This has raised questions about their independence from the developers that haven't been satisfactorily answered by our agent, the developer or the lawyers themselves. Anyone else in the same situation? Just generally it would be great to touch base with anyone else buying in the complex! June R
Originally posted by JuneR: Hi there Anyone out there buying on this development? We've put a deposit on a two-bed apartment and are awaiting contracts. Can anyone recommend a good English speaking lawyer in the area? We were recommended a firm called Costa Barros but have noticed their names appear on the draft contract we were given by our agent. This has raised questions about their independence from the developers that haven't been satisfactorily answered by our agent, the developer or the lawyers themselves. Anyone else in the same situation? Just generally it would be great to touch base with anyone else buying in the complex! June R
Hi JuneR
I've responded to some of your other threads on this topic but will respond to the question you posed in this thread.
You must get the contract checked out by an independent and reputable law firm who understands Brazil property law.
An example of a British firm that specialises in the sort of service you need is: lawoverseas.com
I've never used them and hence am not able to recomend or otherwise, but it is an example of a law firm you may like to consider contacting.
In addition to the legal side it is important that you check out the financial apsect of your purchase especially if this is being viewed as an investment rather than personal purchase.
I understand that the 2 bed apartments you have reserved are being offered at €90K. This may seem like peanuts compared to European prices but they must be considered against a backdrop of Brazilian properties occupied by locals with a value of €fewK.
You need to do your own DD and have a clear startegy including your eventual exit. Any figures provided by the developer or agent in terms of capital appreciation or yield should be disregarded unless firmly writteninto the contract.
I note that some claims of returns on this development are:
Potential Capital Appreciation P.A. 20.00%(Conservative Estimate)
Potential Rental Income P.A. 9.00%(Conservative Estimate Based on 2 Bed Apartment For 22 Weeks at €275 pw)
Originally posted by JuneR: Hi there Anyone out there buying on this development? We've put a deposit on a two-bed apartment and are awaiting contracts. Can anyone recommend a good English speaking lawyer in the area? We were recommended a firm called Costa Barros but have noticed their names appear on the draft contract we were given by our agent. This has raised questions about their independence from the developers that haven't been satisfactorily answered by our agent, the developer or the lawyers themselves. Anyone else in the same situation? Just generally it would be great to touch base with anyone else buying in the complex! June R
Hi JuneR
I've responded to some of your other threads on this topic but will respond to the question you posed in this thread.
You must get the contract checked out by an independent and reputable law firm who understands Brazil property law.
An example of a British firm that specialises in the sort of service you need is: lawoverseas.com
I've never used them and hence am not able to recomend or otherwise, but it is an example of a law firm you may like to consider contacting.
In addition to the legal side it is important that you check out the financial apsect of your purchase especially if this is being viewed as an investment rather than personal purchase.
I understand that the 2 bed apartments you have reserved are being offered at €90K. This may seem like peanuts compared to European prices but they must be considered against a backdrop of Brazilian properties occupied by locals with a value of €fewK.
You need to do your own DD and have a clear startegy including your eventual exit. Any figures provided by the developer or agent in terms of capital appreciation or yield should be disregarded unless firmly writteninto the contract.
I note that some claims of returns on this development are:
Potential Capital Appreciation P.A. 20.00%(Conservative Estimate)
Potential Rental Income P.A. 9.00%(Conservative Estimate Based on 2 Bed Apartment For 22 Weeks at €275 pw)
June as a keen overseas investor I considered this area but then decided there was no point going so far to make money when there are opportunities right on my doorstep such as Mediterreanean Morocco which has the same flight times as Southern Spain.
For me I want rentals to be as simple as possible, so that means lots of Brit orientated infrastructure. For example a recent investment into Morocco is a development which will have multiple well known rental agents actualy on site all competing for my business.
Trying to resale in Brazil is a lot more complex than you think.
Hi June, I too am in a similar situation to you having put a reserve deposit down on a 2-bed appartment. It was a bit of a pressure sell but the future of this region looks good .. new airport, new access bridge to the region, golf courses etc. However, my research has been limited and have not examined rental returns and the resell process in any great detail. I would be interested to hear of any further information you get.
Originally posted by Eddie N: Hi June, I too am in a similar situation to you having put a reserve deposit down on a 2-bed appartment. It was a bit of a pressure sell but the future of this region looks good .. new airport, new access bridge to the region, golf courses etc. However, my research has been limited and have not examined rental returns and the resell process in any great detail. I would be interested to hear of any further information you get.
Surely I can't be the only person sat reading this with a facial expression not too dissimilar from:
I find it shocking that anyone would be willing to commit to a €90K "investment" without an excellent understanding of how it is likely to perform or a planned exit strategy.
To me this isn't investment, it's speculation akin to putting a fiver on the nags head at the 15:30 at Chepstow.
Originally posted by JuneR: Hi BTL Opting OUt! You make some excellent points for which I'm grateful but you do rather give the impression of being set to auto-scoff! Just so we're clear - the decision to invest in Brazil has been made at the end of a 4 month research slog. The following locations were examined in considerable depth and rejected - Bulgaria (no-brainer!), Croatia, Montenegro, Turkey, Cyprus, Morocco, Cape Verde, South Africa and Las Vegas. Why Brazil? Because the key economic indicators are there, the infrastructure is going in, transport is improving (although there are already well established links/tourism from Spain, Portugal and Scandanavia. But more than anything it's just plain gorgeous. The vast majority of visitors positively rave about the landscape, the happy-smiley people, the general service ambience. Isn't that what anybody'd want on a holiday? Having paid only a small deposit if it doesn't stack up when we visit week after next then OK forget it but I genuinely don't expect to be disappointed. Of course no investment opportunity will be perfect. Sure there are no guarantees but if it comes down to a choice between choosing the best of an imperfect bunch or doing nothing at all...Boring! Don't you feel you'd benefit from taking the occasional risk (even if it IS just a punt on the geegees??)
Hi June Excellent response, good counter-argument without getting abusive/agressive.
You're right! I am bearish on property at present, being very down-beat on investment via new-build relying on capital appreciation/rental income.
I'm not anti all markets and believe lifestyle/re-location/renovation has much merit and planning eventual re-location myself.
Good to see you have done your research. I can't understand why someone would want to make a reservation deposit prior to viewing, but like you say it's only a €1K flutter.
You are of course right and have identified a shortcoming/flaw that I am aware of....I'm terribly risk-adverse! One step at a time, perhapes i'll buy an extra lottery ticket this w'end
Hi BTL - Just reporting back on our trip to Brazil. To be honest, although I'm keen to be seen to give a balanced view I'm genuinely struggling to find any negatives. Natal is lovely - modern, vibrant and packed with (mainly Brazilian) tourists having a lot of very wholesome and inexpensive fun. Maracajau (where the new development is situated) is quite simply stunning, pure white beaches and swaying palms, just like the old Bounty ads. The nearby village is already showing signs of prosperity from the established Scuba and Snorkelling industry. New infrastructure is much in evidence and many Brazilians employed in the tourist industry are learning English in anticipation of the rise in overseas tourism. Yes the economic indicators are as good as they ever can be and the developer seemed straight enough. But more than anything we were utterly charmed by the country and it's people and if the worst thing that can happen is we get a lovely, cheap holiday home in a beautiful (and inexpensive country) less than nine hours away, well how bad is that??
Note to Thorr: I expedt you're already aware but a company called 'Moroccan Sands' is using your preferred strapline 'Get There Before the Crowds'. You may have been thinking of changing this anyway (the crowds are well and truly piling in) but if not, well I think it might make people think there was a link and would devalue the helpful advice you give in the forums. JuneR.
Originally posted by JuneR: Hi BTL - Just reporting back on our trip to Brazil.....But more than anything we were utterly charmed by the country and it's people and if the worst thing that can happen is we get a lovely, cheap holiday home in a beautiful (and inexpensive country) less than nine hours away, well how bad is that??
Hi JuneR
Thanks for "reporting back"....I'm very pleased it met/exceeded your expectations...I may be an old cynic but really I do prefer good news stories. I guess my cynicism stems from over reading of "I've bought 20 off-plan appartments on Sunny beach in Bulgaria".
I think your last para sums it up perfectly....if your economic situation can afford to have this purchase as a lifstyle choice in the event of it not meeting the financial performance expectations then there is little to lose.
Would love to hear the progress of the appartment, and if you are going to let it out...may I put my name down for 2 weeks rental on completion?
Hi BTL (Can't quite get the hang of this quote thing..) Re your request for a rental slot - you bet. Careful though....if Brazil has the same effect on you, you might be seduced in to buying....A BTL PROPERTY!! Worst case scenario - you'll get to enjoy a little bit of paradise for not a lot of money (look - I can do the little faces now...)
Originally posted by JuneR: Hi BTL (Can't quite get the hang of this quote thing..) Re your request for a rental slot - you bet. Careful though....if Brazil has the same effect on you, you might be seduced in to buying....A BTL PROPERTY!! Worst case scenario - you'll get to enjoy a little bit of paradise for not a lot of money (look - I can do the little faces now...)
Hi June,
I got interested in Brazil after reading your comments. You got a very nice property at a good price.
I decided to purchase some land near Fortaleza, they have good plots waterfront for around $8000 (£4000).
I was reading some of the comments here, and I thought I share my thoughts and experiences in Brazil. I have lived in Brazil many years ago and I have been there for more than 20 times, both working and on holidays. I though I share with you some of my knowledge about Brazil and what is happening in the country.
I have some experience in investing in Property, I have done some very good deals, and of course also some bad ones......I know Brazil very well as I have been travelling along the whole almost 8000km coastline, and of course been "sniffing around"....
I thought of buying in Brazil first time a five years ago, but at that time the tourism growth was virtually cero and the "risk factor" was a lot higher than now. Besides that, and even more important, at that time the economy was still a bit of a question mark.
It only since 2003 that the Brazilian economy really started to improve drastically. For the first time Brazil is no longer dependent on foreign currrency, the country is now almost debt free and inflation is now only around 5,5 %. As a result, foreign capital has started to pour into Brazil and all leading experts seem to think that in two years Brazil will recieve an "offical" investment upgrade. Brazil is now finally on it's way to become one of the strongest economies in the world.
What is really interesting about Brazil, is that everyone forecast that in approx 2 years, the mortgage market will kick off. Today, lending in Brazil is very low, both for companies and private persons. One can only imagine what "impact" mortgages will have on Brazil's economy, spending will increase exponentialy etc......and of course I'll be very surprised if it will not have an impact on Real Estate prices........
Speaking of tourism, it is for the last three years that the tourism has really started to take off, which can easily be explained by the fact that Brazil only started to "market itself" in 2003 by first time in its history forming the Ministry of Tourism. Interesting enough, all the changes in Economy and Tourism are ocurring due to Lula Goverment, which has just been re-elected. Thank god!!
I think that many foreign property investors forget one very important factor when they look at "emerging markets". I have looked at Cape Verde, Morocco, Egypt etc. They are indeed "emerging markets". Brazil is NOT an "emerging market". When I first went to Brazil in 1995, one of the destinations I went to was Natal. The place was PACKED!!! Thousands of tourist, activities etc. The Brazilians love to travel in their own country, and a "normal" Brazilian can not be bothered about Caribbean etc, why should they? They have Brazil!!!
I have decided to buy a property in Natal-Brazil myself 6 weeks ago in the project Porto Dos Corais that I found on the Web. I reserved a D Condo apt for 63,000 Euros, which for a fully furnished 2 bed seems like a bargain. I have been to the area, checked out the project, met the developer etc.
I chose Natal mainly because it is the area clearly leading the tourism "boom". There are too many things to mention here, but Natal will become such a popular area, with Golf, Marinas, resorts, new airport in 2010 etc. I live in Spain myself, and I fly to natal from Madrid in 7h20 minutes!!!! No wonder natal is the area where most of the foreigners go!!
Why did I buy now??
-For me this was the perfect time as now I am confident about the Brazilian economy -I know now that the foreign tourism has really started to take off, which I think will give good support to the already very big domestic tourism market - Since I have also lost some money before, this time around I really wanted reduce the "risk factor", Brazil for me is as risk free as it possibly can bee. After having analyzed all the indicatiors, I can't see how I could loose out.
I read one comment on this site regarding the furniture in Porto Dos Corais. I am just about to sign myself and I think it is perfectly normal that the furniture has a "different" contract. I have bough several properties off-plan before, and after having spent too much time furnishing myself in foreign countries, I appreciate the fact the Porto Dos Corais is sold fully furnished. If one buys a property off-plan non-furnished, the property still has to be furnished after completion, and the money spent on those items, will of course not appear on the title deed. I can only imagine how long it would take for a "typical" foreigner to furnish a property in Brazil.......
I checked out the Bank Guarantees that the developer offers. It was rather amusing actually as some lawyers that I asked, told me that it does not exist in Brazil yet. However, I found out that the developer is actually the first ever company to achieve Bank Guarantees in Brazil, and probaly it will become more common in the next couple of years. Anyway, after having been to Brazil many times, I do appreciate the fact that there are Bank Guarantees.
Speaking of "emerging markets", there is not a single other "emerging" market that can compete with Brazil. Morocco will not be a "super power", nor will Egypt and nor will Cape Verde. Those areas might benefit from some tourism growth, but when putting all the indicators together (economy, toursim etc), Brazil beats them 10-0 (exactly the same numbers Brazil would beat them in Football!!!)
As a conclusion, I have to say that Brazil is for me the best country on the planet, and yes, I am guilty of also buying "with my heart". Excluding all the main "indicators" I have to say that Brazil is the one place where, every time I come back from my holidays in Brazil, I immediately want to go back!!!!
Speaking of "emerging markets", there is not a single other "emerging" market that can compete with Brazil. Morocco will not be a "super power", nor will Egypt and nor will Cape Verde. Those areas might benefit from some tourism growth, but when putting all the indicators together (economy, toursim etc), Brazil beats them 10-0 (exactly the same numbers Brazil would beat them in Football!!!)
As a conclusion, I have to say that Brazil is for me the best country on the planet, and yes, I am guilty of also buying "with my heart". Excluding all the main "indicators" I have to say that Brazil is the one place where, every time I come back from my holidays in Brazil, I immediately want to go back!!!!
Viva Brazil!!!!
I think that Porto dos Corais is a beautiful project.
Just one comment: there is land in front of the project (i.e. really beach front) which can be had for £20000 for 600m^2. Don't you think that it might a better deal? Cost of building in Brazil is about £100/m^2...
Hi Reader, Building costs to the standard of Porto dos Corais are 400 €uros m2 (about £250). There are other benefits to owning on a complex such as security, communal facilities (and less individual costs)and marketing. Furthermore, there are onsite facilities such as shop, spa, gym, dive centre (proposed) and car hire. Be one hell of a villa to squeeze all that in!
Originally posted by Andyk2: Hi Reader, Building costs to the standard of Porto dos Corais are 400 €uros m2 (about £250). There are other benefits to owning on a complex such as security, communal facilities (and less individual costs)and marketing. Furthermore, there are onsite facilities such as shop, spa, gym, dive centre (proposed) and car hire. Be one hell of a villa to squeeze all that in!
OK, make it £250. For a 150 m^2 house that is £37500, plus the land is £57500. And this is really on the beach.
One other advantage: one does not pay for the community fees.
The access to the car hire or dive center is the same for everybody in the area.
Again, I am acknowledging that Porto do Corais is a nice project but I think in Brazil right now it is better to purchase land and build by oneself.
Braziliero-A truly comprehensive exposition of the inumerable advantages;perhaps a tad TOO professional,but whatever the source of your motivation,a valuable contribution nevertheless and certainly very credible and compelling arguments from all the Porto proponents! 07- it will invariably be possible to present figures which on paper demonstrate a cheaper route ,though in reality very few of us possess the time ,inclination or requisite contacts to manage a project of this nature to successful completion without major hassle.Much of the appeal at Porto to me is that it represents a true turnkey solution with many additional inherant safeguards at a bargain basement price tag, though i understand there is a price rise in the pipieline.It also appears to lend itself well to a fractional ownership situation-does anyone else agree?
Originally posted by JuneR: Hi BTL - Just reporting back on our trip to Brazil. To be honest, although I'm keen to be seen to give a balanced view I'm genuinely struggling to find any negatives. Natal is lovely - modern, vibrant and packed with (mainly Brazilian) tourists having a lot of very wholesome and inexpensive fun. Maracajau (where the new development is situated) is quite simply stunning, pure white beaches and swaying palms, just like the old Bounty ads. The nearby village is already showing signs of prosperity from the established Scuba and Snorkelling industry. New infrastructure is much in evidence and many Brazilians employed in the tourist industry are learning English in anticipation of the rise in overseas tourism. Yes the economic indicators are as good as they ever can be and the developer seemed straight enough. But more than anything we were utterly charmed by the country and it's people and if the worst thing that can happen is we get a lovely, cheap holiday home in a beautiful (and inexpensive country) less than nine hours away, well how bad is that??
Note to Thorr: I expedt you're already aware but a company called 'Moroccan Sands' is using your preferred strapline 'Get There Before the Crowds'. You may have been thinking of changing this anyway (the crowds are well and truly piling in) but if not, well I think it might make people think there was a link and would devalue the helpful advice you give in the forums. JuneR.
Hi June,
how is the region or Muriu - Jacuma beach? You passed through them on your way to Maracajau.
Hi Brasiliero! It's rare to get such a thoroughly conclusive analysis of the benefits of any investment on a forum such as this - we are truly honoured! Just out of interest - which D condo have you reserved (a relative is considering one - perhaps you'll be neighbours?) How are you dealing with the 'lawyer' issue? I'm assuming that, like the rest of us, you're avoiding Costa Barros. Any recommendation you could give would be very much welcomed. You mention you've bought off-plan elsewhere without success - perhaps you could share your experiences with us rookies so we can learn from your mistakes. I'm very glad you checked out the Bank Guarantees offered by the developer. I'm still waiting for actual sight of this document and know of no-one else who has seen it 'in the flesh'. Perhaps you could be so kind as to let me have a copy if you have one? Like you, as soon as I left Brazil I wanted to return. Indeed, I didn't want to leave. See you by the pool?? To Reader 07 - Yes, I must have passed through the areas you mentioned on my way to Maracajau. However, to be completely honest, I remember feeling a little disappointed along the way because the areas we passed through were - I hesitate to say it - a bit 'third world'. (not the sort of place you want to stick your luxury development and not feel totally guilty). However Maracajau was an enormous relief because the village is showing clear indications of prosperity - presumably because of the established scuba and snorkelling business and the water park. That's not to say other areas won't come up in time but I'm just reporting what I saw!
Originally posted by JuneR: To Reader 07 - Yes, I must have passed through the areas you mentioned on my way to Maracajau. However, to be completely honest, I remember feeling a little disappointed along the way because the areas we passed through were - I hesitate to say it - a bit 'third world'. (not the sort of place you want to stick your luxury development and not feel totally guilty). However Maracajau was an enormous relief because the village is showing clear indications of prosperity - presumably because of the established scuba and snorkelling business and the water park. That's not to say other areas won't come up in time but I'm just reporting what I saw!
I agree that Maracajau seems to be the best area to the North of Natal in March 2007. But in the next 5 years there will be 400 Millions Euros invested in infrastructure in North Natal and a series of excellent hotels.
So the area might become a magnet for tourists.
I am seriouslky considering it as a possible area for my retirement (in 30 years that is...).
I saw some of the comments of my "Brazil text" and I am almost flattered.....although there was one that was not too nice......
Anyway, it is nice to see more people online and looking around, the area is such a nice area and what will be nice than more nice people around!!
I have seen the bank guarantee for Porto Dos Corais. It is a Bank Guaranteed work conclusion insurance which means that whatever happens the bank guarantees the finishing of the property. I have looked in many countries, Morocco etc, and Bank Guarantees are usually non existent in emerging markets.
I am using Manzanares International Lawyers (based in Spain) as I was recommended to them and they have double checked all the documents, including the Bank Guarantee.
I agree with June R, that Maracajaú is a very promising area. The good side is that there is already "something" which usually means that there will be "more" along with development. I spent a few night there and even had a few good parties with the locals, great people!! Every time I go to Maracajaú, I can see the changes happening, small shops etc, it is only a question of time before the place really takes off.
Yes, it is true that some parts of the coast might appear as "Africa" for some....but then again don't expect Florida style if you come to Brazil!!! Well, if someone expect "plastic" Florida style etc, maybe better to look somewhere else.......
For myself and most people I know, Brazil is exactly appealing because it is so relaxed and "virgin" but there is always something to do, and combined with the fact that there will happen so much in the coming years, makes it such an exciting investment case.
I was looking that someone though of buying a plot and building......nothing wrong with that as long you are prepared for what it takes. Being a "gringo" in Brazil is nice....but when it comes to building a house.....good luck!!! The price you quoted, will not be the final price.......You forget about infrastructure costs....and all the "hidden" costs that will add up......
I would only build a house if I would live there permanently, but that is me......
I wish you all good luck in Brazil and if there is anything I can help with, a gente ajuda!!
We've also invested here in one of the 3 bed villas. Has anyone else here signed the contracts yet? We've just asked for clarification on a few things (like the insurance, ownership of the plot, the wa
(look - I can do the little faces now...)
