Go  |
New |
Find |
Notify |
|
Reply |
|
Admin |
New PM! |
New Member
|
quote: Originally posted by Brasileiro:
Hi,
I was reading some of the comments here, and I thought I share my thoughts and experiences in Brazil. I have lived in Brazil many years ago and I have been there for more than 20 times, both working and on holidays. I though I share with you some of my knowledge about Brazil and what is happening in the country.
I have some experience in investing in Property, I have done some very good deals, and of course also some bad ones......I know Brazil very well as I have been travelling along the whole almost 8000km coastline, and of course been "sniffing around"....
I thought of buying in Brazil first time a five years ago, but at that time the tourism growth was virtually cero and the "risk factor" was a lot higher than now. Besides that, and even more important, at that time the economy was still a bit of a question mark.
It only since 2003 that the Brazilian economy really started to improve drastically. For the first time Brazil is no longer dependent on foreign currrency, the country is now almost debt free and inflation is now only around 5,5 %. As a result, foreign capital has started to pour into Brazil and all leading experts seem to think that in two years Brazil will recieve an "offical" investment upgrade. Brazil is now finally on it's way to become one of the strongest economies in the world.
What is really interesting about Brazil, is that everyone forecast that in approx 2 years, the mortgage market will kick off. Today, lending in Brazil is very low, both for companies and private persons. One can only imagine what "impact" mortgages will have on Brazil's economy, spending will increase exponentialy etc......and of course I'll be very surprised if it will not have an impact on Real Estate prices........
Speaking of tourism, it is for the last three years that the tourism has really started to take off, which can easily be explained by the fact that Brazil only started to "market itself" in 2003 by first time in its history forming the Ministry of Tourism. Interesting enough, all the changes in Economy and Tourism are ocurring due to Lula Goverment, which has just been re-elected. Thank god!!
I think that many foreign property investors forget one very important factor when they look at "emerging markets". I have looked at Cape Verde, Morocco, Egypt etc. They are indeed "emerging markets". Brazil is NOT an "emerging market". When I first went to Brazil in 1995, one of the destinations I went to was Natal. The place was PACKED!!! Thousands of tourist, activities etc. The Brazilians love to travel in their own country, and a "normal" Brazilian can not be bothered about Caribbean etc, why should they? They have Brazil!!!
I have decided to buy a property in Natal-Brazil myself 6 weeks ago in the project Porto Dos Corais that I found on the Web. I reserved a D Condo apt for 63,000 Euros, which for a fully furnished 2 bed seems like a bargain. I have been to the area, checked out the project, met the developer etc.
I chose Natal mainly because it is the area clearly leading the tourism "boom". There are too many things to mention here, but Natal will become such a popular area, with Golf, Marinas, resorts, new airport in 2010 etc. I live in Spain myself, and I fly to natal from Madrid in 7h20 minutes!!!! No wonder natal is the area where most of the foreigners go!!
Why did I buy now??
-For me this was the perfect time as now I am confident about the Brazilian economy
-I know now that the foreign tourism has really started to take off, which I think will give good support to the already very big domestic tourism market
- Since I have also lost some money before, this time around I really wanted reduce the "risk factor", Brazil for me is as risk free as it possibly can bee. After having analyzed all the indicatiors, I can't see how I could loose out.
I read one comment on this site regarding the furniture in Porto Dos Corais. I am just about to sign myself and I think it is perfectly normal that the furniture has a "different" contract. I have bough several properties off-plan before, and after having spent too much time furnishing myself in foreign countries, I appreciate the fact the Porto Dos Corais is sold fully furnished. If one buys a property off-plan non-furnished, the property still has to be furnished after completion, and the money spent on those items, will of course not appear on the title deed. I can only imagine how long it would take for a "typical" foreigner to furnish a property in Brazil.......
I checked out the Bank Guarantees that the developer offers. It was rather amusing actually as some lawyers that I asked, told me that it does not exist in Brazil yet. However, I found out that the developer is actually the first ever company to achieve Bank Guarantees in Brazil, and probaly it will become more common in the next couple of years. Anyway, after having been to Brazil many times, I do appreciate the fact that there are Bank Guarantees.
Speaking of "emerging markets", there is not a single other "emerging" market that can compete with Brazil. Morocco will not be a "super power", nor will Egypt and nor will Cape Verde. Those areas might benefit from some tourism growth, but when putting all the indicators together (economy, toursim etc), Brazil beats them 10-0 (exactly the same numbers Brazil would beat them in Football!!!)
As a conclusion, I have to say that Brazil is for me the best country on the planet, and yes, I am guilty of also buying "with my heart". Excluding all the main "indicators" I have to say that Brazil is the one place where, every time I come back from my holidays in Brazil, I immediately want to go back!!!!
Viva Brazil!!!!
|
| |
|
New Member
|
quote: Originally posted by Peps:Hey Brasileiro, Interested to note that you bought an apartment on PDC for 63000 Euros. That appears to be an absolute bargain,and way below what we bought for. Who did you buy through,and when? Trust you are well Peter quote: Originally posted by Brasileiro:
Hi,
I was reading some of the comments here, and I thought I share my thoughts and experiences in Brazil. I have lived in Brazil many years ago and I have been there for more than 20 times, both working and on holidays. I though I share with you some of my knowledge about Brazil and what is happening in the country.
I have some experience in investing in Property, I have done some very good deals, and of course also some bad ones......I know Brazil very well as I have been travelling along the whole almost 8000km coastline, and of course been "sniffing around"....
I thought of buying in Brazil first time a five years ago, but at that time the tourism growth was virtually cero and the "risk factor" was a lot higher than now. Besides that, and even more important, at that time the economy was still a bit of a question mark.
It only since 2003 that the Brazilian economy really started to improve drastically. For the first time Brazil is no longer dependent on foreign currrency, the country is now almost debt free and inflation is now only around 5,5 %. As a result, foreign capital has started to pour into Brazil and all leading experts seem to think that in two years Brazil will recieve an "offical" investment upgrade. Brazil is now finally on it's way to become one of the strongest economies in the world.
What is really interesting about Brazil, is that everyone forecast that in approx 2 years, the mortgage market will kick off. Today, lending in Brazil is very low, both for companies and private persons. One can only imagine what "impact" mortgages will have on Brazil's economy, spending will increase exponentialy etc......and of course I'll be very surprised if it will not have an impact on Real Estate prices........
Speaking of tourism, it is for the last three years that the tourism has really started to take off, which can easily be explained by the fact that Brazil only started to "market itself" in 2003 by first time in its history forming the Ministry of Tourism. Interesting enough, all the changes in Economy and Tourism are ocurring due to Lula Goverment, which has just been re-elected. Thank god!!
I think that many foreign property investors forget one very important factor when they look at "emerging markets". I have looked at Cape Verde, Morocco, Egypt etc. They are indeed "emerging markets". Brazil is NOT an "emerging market". When I first went to Brazil in 1995, one of the destinations I went to was Natal. The place was PACKED!!! Thousands of tourist, activities etc. The Brazilians love to travel in their own country, and a "normal" Brazilian can not be bothered about Caribbean etc, why should they? They have Brazil!!!
I have decided to buy a property in Natal-Brazil myself 6 weeks ago in the project Porto Dos Corais that I found on the Web. I reserved a D Condo apt for 63,000 Euros, which for a fully furnished 2 bed seems like a bargain. I have been to the area, checked out the project, met the developer etc.
I chose Natal mainly because it is the area clearly leading the tourism "boom". There are too many things to mention here, but Natal will become such a popular area, with Golf, Marinas, resorts, new airport in 2010 etc. I live in Spain myself, and I fly to natal from Madrid in 7h20 minutes!!!! No wonder natal is the area where most of the foreigners go!!
Why did I buy now??
-For me this was the perfect time as now I am confident about the Brazilian economy
-I know now that the foreign tourism has really started to take off, which I think will give good support to the already very big domestic tourism market
- Since I have also lost some money before, this time around I really wanted reduce the "risk factor", Brazil for me is as risk free as it possibly can bee. After having analyzed all the indicatiors, I can't see how I could loose out.
I read one comment on this site regarding the furniture in Porto Dos Corais. I am just about to sign myself and I think it is perfectly normal that the furniture has a "different" contract. I have bough several properties off-plan before, and after having spent too much time furnishing myself in foreign countries, I appreciate the fact the Porto Dos Corais is sold fully furnished. If one buys a property off-plan non-furnished, the property still has to be furnished after completion, and the money spent on those items, will of course not appear on the title deed. I can only imagine how long it would take for a "typical" foreigner to furnish a property in Brazil.......
I checked out the Bank Guarantees that the developer offers. It was rather amusing actually as some lawyers that I asked, told me that it does not exist in Brazil yet. However, I found out that the developer is actually the first ever company to achieve Bank Guarantees in Brazil, and probaly it will become more common in the next couple of years. Anyway, after having been to Brazil many times, I do appreciate the fact that there are Bank Guarantees.
Speaking of "emerging markets", there is not a single other "emerging" market that can compete with Brazil. Morocco will not be a "super power", nor will Egypt and nor will Cape Verde. Those areas might benefit from some tourism growth, but when putting all the indicators together (economy, toursim etc), Brazil beats them 10-0 (exactly the same numbers Brazil would beat them in Football!!!)
As a conclusion, I have to say that Brazil is for me the best country on the planet, and yes, I am guilty of also buying "with my heart". Excluding all the main "indicators" I have to say that Brazil is the one place where, every time I come back from my holidays in Brazil, I immediately want to go back!!!!
Viva Brazil!!!!
|
| |
|
New Member
|
Hi Reader 07
[B]I am interested in buying a plot of land in Maracajau. You mentioned you could buy a beach front plot of around 600m2 for about 20 000 pounds. Could you post details of where I can find these (eg. seller's website) as all I can seem to find are developments of apartments and a few villas. I think that you could be right about buying land being a good plan.[/B]reader quote: Originally posted by reader07: quote: Originally posted by Brasileiro:
Speaking of "emerging markets", there is not a single other "emerging" market that can compete with Brazil. Morocco will not be a "super power", nor will Egypt and nor will Cape Verde. Those areas might benefit from some tourism growth, but when putting all the indicators together (economy, toursim etc), Brazil beats them 10-0 (exactly the same numbers Brazil would beat them in Football!!!)
As a conclusion, I have to say that Brazil is for me the best country on the planet, and yes, I am guilty of also buying "with my heart". Excluding all the main "indicators" I have to say that Brazil is the one place where, every time I come back from my holidays in Brazil, I immediately want to go back!!!!
Viva Brazil!!!!
I think that Porto dos Corais is a beautiful project. Just one comment: there is land in front of the project (i.e. really beach front) which can be had for £20000 for 600m^2. Don't you think that it might a better deal? Cost of building in Brazil is about £100/m^2...
|
| |
|
New Member
|
I dont think you can get a beach front 600m2 plot of land in front of Porto dos Corais for £20,000 any more - More like 450m2 for £35,000. But I think even that has sold out. Just google 'beach front land maracajau' and you should get 'international property estates' aka 'brazil property developments'. He sells beach front land and also off plan villa's beachfront, 'spc overseas' also sell beach front villa's at Maracajau off plan.
If you are intersested in second line plots of land at Maracajau they are currently only 50,000Reais which is roughly £12,500 if so let me know and I can put you in contact with the person who is selling these plots.
I have just returned from Natal (31/8/07) and I have lots of pictures of Maracajau's beach front plots, The Porto Dos Corais development, Jacuma Beach Resort, and Grand Natal Golf. Let me know if anyone is interested.
|
| |
|
New Member
|
how is the Porto dos Corais development progressing ?
|
| |
|
New Member
|
quote: Originally posted by Garcia:
how is the Porto dos Corais development progressing ?
I had confirmation from our solicitor last week that our apartment should be completed May 2008. I seem to recall that a number of the villas were due to be completed before ours is. I think there was a slight delay on the site,but that was resolved quickly. Here's hoping. |
| |
|
New Member
|
Who is the Admin on here - just tried to add a URL for the photos and said it was denied? Any way around this?
|
| |
|
New Member
|
Anybody on here intending to rent out your PDC appartment's once complete?
Will you need to open a Brazilian Bank account to do this? I've heard this is very difficult to do.
If not will you use a rental agency? Which one's have you considered? Will they pay all your bills and taxes?
|
| |
|
New Member
|
I'm thinking about renting, but have not looked into it properly. My solicitors have told me that they will open a bank account on my behalf and set up the direct debits etc quote: Originally posted by Hazie-baby:
Anybody on here intending to rent out your PDC appartment's once complete?
Will you need to open a Brazilian Bank account to do this? I've heard this is very difficult to do.
If not will you use a rental agency? Which one's have you considered? Will they pay all your bills and taxes?
|
| |
|
New Member
|
I have one of the C-villas on PDC, very centrally located. Might be interested in selling it if anyone is interested. There are no more C villas available from the developer and the last one went for 135,000 Euros.
|
| |
|
New Member
|
Sorry, I have tried to post a URL to my pictures in various different formats on here so that you can see the progress at PDC, but they always end up getting deleted by the admin.
So if you want to see my pictures of PDC from 23rd August 07 go to the 'totalproperty' forum site. You will need to search for 'totalproperty' on google to get the web site - as I can't post the URL. Once you are on the website click on 'Brazil Property' then 'Brazil: Pictures To Share With Us!!!'
You should be able to find pictures of PDC on my posts on here.
Mark
|
| |
|
New Member
|
I have just seen Porto Dos Corais and am new to all this investing. I do love the development and am wondering whether to invest. I'm just looking at a one bed but there are only golf course view apartments left at the cheaper end of the budget. I am wary that the golf course may not happen. Does anyone know anymore? Can anyone give me ideas of fees.
I have been trying to find Hazie-baby photos of the area but can't find you in google. Can you try and give me some more clues to access it.
|
| |
|
New Member
|
If you go to the flickr website and after the dot com type 'forward slash' photos 'forward slash' haziebaby you will find Marks photos.
They give a good update on how PDC is going and also show the general area off really well. Nice one Mark!
|
| |
|
New Member
|
Does anybody have any updates. I have seen the photographs on the developers website.Had an email today direct from the developer requesting the next payment. Any one else have the same?
|
| |
|
New Member
|
I have a lot of information on my private non-commercial homepage, as I have bought a D flat in Porto Dos Corais already in October 2006. www.maracajau.net/engI believed in the project from day one, as I had a fantastic introduction in Denmark to Brazil Homes, the constructor of the PDC. I was there in April 07 - six months after my buying and some months after first paying...! But I haven't had any problems about time delay and sometimes you need to take risk in your life, if you want to do a great deal. I was one of the very first to make a reservation on a D flat and I only bought it for private use, but look at the amount the rest of the PDC is announced to and all other flats in the area. I saved a lot of money...! Please visit my site and the 222 pictures in the Photo gallery on the different pages - I hope many of you can use my information's, my photos to show relatives and I'm looking forward to se many of you on the beach, at the pool or in the bars in the near future in Porto Dos Corais. Jim |
| |
|
New Member
|
I was requested the second installment of money - I just told my solictors to sort it out. I wouldn't expect to give money direct - thats why I signed over power of attorney. Cheers.
|
| |
|
New Member
|
I have just invested and propose to use Manzanares although I do have some reservations. I have not received any information on due diligence from them or any form of contract on the project some 6 weeks later. Although they are of course asking for the first payment to hold until the contract comes through.
Is this normal or should I be doing some rigourous chasing? I would be interested in hearing from anyone who is further in the process who can share their experience and also the contact details of any other lawyers being used to purchase.
|
| |
|
New Member
|
I bought back in Feb/march this year.It did take some time for me to see the copies of the contract. I think most people will agree that the process is quite slow. I don't think there is anything you can do to speed the process up.Expect more delays!
|
| |
|
New Member
|
Repeated post from other thread FYI.
Hi,
we are currently in Natal after a holiday last year and have returned to look into the property opportunities.
There are a couple of things that dont quite add up for me, so any thoughts would be appreciated.
There are lots of developments going up, and the target buyer seems to be exclusively european investors, and not commercial investment, just personal investment. If it is so good why are large property funds not getting in on it?
The other thing that I dont quite understand is that none of the large hotel groups are building here? There are small medium hotels, most are established and not part of the recent boom. Anywhere else in the world that is high density population or transient tourists, nigh on always attracts the large hotel groups? Why are they not here?
I also find the ratio of local housing to new build cost rather alarming! I have seen the areas and know that they are not exactly des-res, but ultimately a local persons condo costs @$20K, and a new apartment costs $120K. Surely this isolates the locals from the market, and makes the ratio too high? Soon there will be more $120K property than the $20K´s. How does that stand up?
Who is buying these when I come to sell? Surely the market will be developer led, and if and when the european market for investment takes a downturn then prices have to fall?
Please discuss !
In the meantime we are off exploring on monday, and can take a look at anything IRL if anyone posts on here before monday. If anyone has any issues that we can help with by checking on whilst in this regoin, please shout. We intend to drive North of Natal to Maracajau, and return Tuesday. Anything in Natal can be looked at after Wednesday.
|
| |
|
New Member
|
Tracy, I think you talk a lot of sense and I tend to agree or have the same reservations as you (I have bought at PDC however).
I think that when you buy this early you have to weigh up the extra risk. If this does end up becoming a boom place over the next ten years then prices will rocket and you'll be in a similar position to what happened with all the caribbean islands.
If you're looking to buy here for a quick profit DON'T!! I can't see it happening.
Good luck with your trip and please put the photos somewhere public where we can see them - E.G. Flickr.
Cheers.
|
| |
|
New Member
|
Hi Lee,
I am with your sentiment that it is a medium to long term investment.
Your comparison with the carribean has a flaw though, (I think), in that the price of property here is not affordable to the locals as it was not in the carribean, yet the carribean is a small place with limited land to build on. This place has hundreds of miles of the stuff, and the vast majority is untouched, so I cannot draw the same comparison as to carribean.
I am starting to think that as long as ¨we¨are butyimg the developers will continue to build, yet there will not be growth as no real market other than üs¨, and no land constraint to give limited availability. I am not seeing the catalyst for price growth at the minute.
Another worry is that we have visited a few real estate agents today, (sunday so closed), and in short it seems apparent that resales are not happening. One guy has the adverts in his window so faded that you cannot read them! And we do recognise some of them from last year too.
The Jacques Custaex (sp?) development is also a glaring tell tale sign of something not quite right. 12 motnhs ago the structure was up and there was a cran on top of the tower, (indicating that the concrete has cured and structure is stable), yet we return to find very little progress. They are currently tiling the external face, and judging by the number of staff on the job it is circa ten weeks work and they are approx 1/3 the way through it. That suggests that no work has taken place between last december and very recently. This is not a good sign really. Particularly as it is in a very prominent position in ponte negra. Other towers have been erected and got further in the same time too.
|
| |
|
New Member
|
A quick update on some recent findings whilst we are in brazil.
A real estate agent, openly advised, (encouraged really), to start negotiations at 10% below asking price for any resale property. Make sure you build this into any calcs you make.
¨taxa de terrenos de marinha¨- seemingly there is an increase in annual property tax if you own buy the sea or a river. standard tax is 2% per annum, seaside tax is 5%. scandalous imo.
Income tax is 22%, and capital gains is thought to be 15%. this is from HSBC so not 100% confirmed.
The bank confirms that mortgage rates are 10-12% whilst savings rates are 8-10%.
returns will need to be good here to make this pay. Do people think this is profitable despite these factors?
I am starting to think that money in a brazil bank is a better option than property?
Anyone any thoughts ?
|
| |
|
|
