okay I know it isnt, but neither was krakatoa lots of stuff appearing about former eastern germany on these forums, so here's another bit about my personal experiences so far. first of all i spent 2 to 3 years looking all over europe for properties like many of you. starting of with spain then italy, bulgaria, hungary etc etc. finally decided on the saxony area of germany. then spent many trips to the area and discovered the auction houses. a few visits to the auctions with viewings after being outbid several times and got something i wanted. there certainly are still amazing bargains out there but be prepared to renovate as you wont get something for nothing. it is a must to learn the language the best you can, without it you may as well be from the moon. legal process of buying pretty straight forward with everything done to the letter of the law, no shadey cash deals. the renovation next. try to do as much as you can as quotes for work can differ by a huge amount and your money will dissappear. dont buy protected stuff as it will cost you dear to put right. get a german bank account, a long term visa (apply in your own country) utilities connections is straightforward, only use a management company if you plan to rent out else you can do it yourself. with just a little german you can fit in quite well, you must try not to isolate yourself. a foreigner is still quite a novelty. the country and people are like we should be, polite, helpful and curtious. oh yeah where is it, how big and how much ? these things dont matter except to the greedy but an hour west of leipzig, 22 big rooms and less than a new mondeo
I agree that the legal process is relatively straightforward a d transparent.
Britons do not need a visa of course. Residency is easy to obtain if you have a local address.
The bit I query about East Germany is that yes it is very cheap but that does not necessarily make it good value. It does if you want a home for the lowest price, but may not if you want to make a a profit. That depends on the market and and on demand.
I know plenty of people here (local and foreign) who have had their fingers burned by buying a cheap property that they have found impossible to sell on or even just rent .
The market is not like the UK's. The people I know with money buy new builds or self-build. They don't touch "second hand" homes with a barge-pole, however well renovated.
this isnt the place for short term profit or buy to let to holiday makers. yes well off people would rather self build new which makes all shapes and sizes the norm, no barrett type eastates here. buy in germany for the long term, its not a place for the speculator unless buying much more expensive apartments in the big cities.
By and large what you are both saying about the eastern states of Germany is correct. I can't see the German ever jumping onto the helter-skelter of self-destruction we have witnessed in huges swathes of the UK. The Germans do tend to be more pragmatic and less likely to be sucked in to the estate agents hype. Having said that there are pockets which will grow faster than others and it's having that local knowledge which makes the difference in having a bad investment or a good investment. The motorways currently planned and some nearing completion may well form corridors of opportunity but don't expect south east England rises - it ain't going to happen. It is all relative however and you do not have to invest SE England type money. I have good mates (locals) in Leipzig and the ethos there is buy and improve don't build new. Why would they want to? There is so much there which is ripe for renovation. It is a wonderful area to live and that should be the main reason to purchase there (investment is likely to be sound but should not be the sole reason - it is a long term investment not a get rich quick scheme)Bautzen is a fairly affluent little pocket with jobs paying good wages by local standards. The Elbe valley is likely to be a good investment spot. Within easy commute of the Berliner ring is likely to prove profitable again long term. Dresden also, and here BTL stands a good chance though I personally never purchase taking this into account - it's fickle, risky, subject to too much hype and unrealistic expectations from the purchasers. Germany is now the mainstay of my o'seas money pot. It's easy (and enjoyable) to reach. It's a market which, if you approach it with an eye to long term investment and not a short term gamble, is fairly simple to understand and is in an infant state compared to the UK and some of the tired old Brit magnets to the South. I spend a great deal of my year travelling around the country and always delight to get back to my ruin of a farmhouse. It's a wonderful place to live and I don't think I need to say more.
Originally posted by jimandpaul: okay I know it isnt, but neither was krakatoa lots of stuff appearing about former eastern germany on these forums, so here's another bit about my personal experiences so far. first of all i spent 2 to 3 years looking all over europe for properties like many of you. starting of with spain then italy, bulgaria, hungary etc etc. finally decided on the saxony area of germany. then spent many trips to the area and discovered the auction houses. a few visits to the auctions with viewings after being outbid several times and got something i wanted. there certainly are still amazing bargains out there but be prepared to renovate as you wont get something for nothing. it is a must to learn the language the best you can, without it you may as well be from the moon. legal process of buying pretty straight forward with everything done to the letter of the law, no shadey cash deals. the renovation next. try to do as much as you can as quotes for work can differ by a huge amount and your money will dissappear. dont buy protected stuff as it will cost you dear to put right. get a german bank account, a long term visa (apply in your own country) utilities connections is straightforward, only use a management company if you plan to rent out else you can do it yourself. with just a little german you can fit in quite well, you must try not to isolate yourself. a foreigner is still quite a novelty. the country and people are like we should be, polite, helpful and curtious. oh yeah where is it, how big and how much ? these things dont matter except to the greedy but an hour west of leipzig, 22 big rooms and less than a new mondeo
hi its carol i see that you decided to renovate are the german builders realy that gready with their quotes for building work who did yours when will the germans lift restrictions om polish workers this could be good for renovators i think your attitude to local people is correct when in rome ext i am not looking to make a bundle more of a life change realy thanks for all your postings as the new kids on the block will be very gratfull
Originally posted by jimandpaul: okay I know it isnt, but neither was krakatoa lots of stuff appearing about former eastern germany on these forums, so here's another bit about my personal experiences so far. first of all i spent 2 to 3 years looking all over europe for properties like many of you. starting of with spain then italy, bulgaria, hungary etc etc. finally decided on the saxony area of germany. then spent many trips to the area and discovered the auction houses. a few visits to the auctions with viewings after being outbid several times and got something i wanted. there certainly are still amazing bargains out there but be prepared to renovate as you wont get something for nothing. it is a must to learn the language the best you can, without it you may as well be from the moon. legal process of buying pretty straight forward with everything done to the letter of the law, no shadey cash deals. the renovation next. try to do as much as you can as quotes for work can differ by a huge amount and your money will dissappear. dont buy protected stuff as it will cost you dear to put right. get a german bank account, a long term visa (apply in your own country) utilities connections is straightforward, only use a management company if you plan to rent out else you can do it yourself. with just a little german you can fit in quite well, you must try not to isolate yourself. a foreigner is still quite a novelty. the country and people are like we should be, polite, helpful and curtious. oh yeah where is it, how big and how much ? these things dont matter except to the greedy but an hour west of leipzig, 22 big rooms and less than a new mondeo
hi its carol i see that you decided to renovate are the german builders realy that gready with their quotes for building work who did yours when will the germans lift restrictions om polish workers this could be good for renovators i think your attitude to local people is correct when in rome ext i am not looking to make a bundle more of a life change realy thanks for all your postings as the new kids on the block will be very gratfull
just also to say if you do not mind i will be asking you several questions in future i know it seems mad but we bought blind at auchtion in scotland could not get over
dont worry about buying blind as only pay what you can afford to lose so to speak. if it turns out to be a lemon then try to offload it in the next auction. of course ther are notars fees, auction house fees and purchase tax to pay but put it down to experience. you could buy a house over in GB with a survey and a large mortgage that turns out this way. Im glad you mentioned a lifestyle change rather than a quick retern as this is where its at. the locals wont like it if you try and draft in a load of cheap polish workers either when ther are so many that will with a push do the jobs for you at about the same price. big firms will charge not much less than GB prices, remember they have to insurance and taxes like the rest of us
thanks jim i share the same attitude i would rather use local builders first and for most as this is good maners to your host country but dont want to be riped off either like to play fair i have done renovations before i love it bit scared on this one we are tring to get over can we meet up if you are not too busy again can we leave our email address on this site in a reply flusrtating talking this way thanks a lot jim for your truoble owe you some german beers
Carol, you made the comment about German builders being greedy. The answer to that has to be a yes and no. They are very protective of their trade guilds and skills and of course their jobs. In most cases when you get a German worker you are getting an artisan one who serves his apprenticship, done all the necessary courses has all the necessary licences and insurance and will only tolerate top class effort from himself/herself and those they sub-contract to. The standard of work is usually far superior to that you have been used to in the UK and the builder will tolerate nothing less. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Factor that in next time you recoil from what you are being quoted and remember you can always haggle a little or do the less skilled stuff yourself as Jim has done. I'm not in a position to help you with your quest as I am working for myself nowadays and no longer operate as an out and out agent and only put the effort in to take on requests from top end investors as quite frankly I no longer need the money badly enough to tolerate all the headaches that having regular punters gave me. I use a couple of trusted agents who do the leg work and the dirty work for me. I think I've posted their names elsewhere but you can't go too far wrong with G and B property source in Spandau and/or Saxony Property Services whose main office is in Redditch with two sub offices in Bremerhaven and near Dresden. No I'm not on any sort of kickback from either - you've asked for help and I'm merely pointing you toward a couple of companies that have never let me down and in Guenter they have one of life's real treasures. Wish I could convince him to come and work for me. Chris Gorlitz who posts here from time to time is an old associate of mine and he will vouch for one of the companies as I think he also deals with them (In this game everthing is confidential so can't be 100% sure) but I do know he is on the contact list of SPS - check with him and see. Whatever you decide I wish you luck with it, Don't get too knotted up with the property you bought at auction in Scotland. Even if it's a dog you must have bought it at a pittance and the worst thing that can happen is you're going to end up with a nice house, in a nice area, in a country that has one of the best infrastructure in the world and one of the most enviable lifestyles - don't listen to the doom merchants, if the house is for your enjoyment then you are well ahead of the pack.
Originally posted by Vonreisa: Carol, you made the comment about German builders being greedy. The answer to that has to be a yes and no. They are very protective of their trade guilds and skills and of course their jobs. In most cases when you get a German worker you are getting an artisan one who serves his apprenticship, done all the necessary courses has all the necessary licences and insurance and will only tolerate top class effort from himself/herself and those they sub-contract to. The standard of work is usually far superior to that you have been used to in the UK and the builder will tolerate nothing less. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Factor that in next time you recoil from what you are being quoted and remember you can always haggle a little or do the less skilled stuff yourself as Jim has done. I'm not in a position to help you with your quest as I am working for myself nowadays and no longer operate as an out and out agent and only put the effort in to take on requests from top end investors as quite frankly I no longer need the money badly enough to tolerate all the headaches that having regular punters gave me. I use a couple of trusted agents who do the leg work and the dirty work for me. I think I've posted their names elsewhere but you can't go too far wrong with G and B property source in Spandau and/or Saxony Property Services whose main office is in Redditch with two sub offices in Bremerhaven and near Dresden. No I'm not on any sort of kickback from either - you've asked for help and I'm merely pointing you toward a couple of companies that have never let me down and in Guenter they have one of life's real treasures. Wish I could convince him to come and work for me. Chris Gorlitz who posts here from time to time is an old associate of mine and he will vouch for one of the companies as I think he also deals with them (In this game everthing is confidential so can't be 100% sure) but I do know he is on the contact list of SPS - check with him and see. Whatever you decide I wish you luck with it, Don't get too knotted up with the property you bought at auction in Scotland. Even if it's a dog you must have bought it at a pittance and the worst thing that can happen is you're going to end up with a nice house, in a nice area, in a country that has one of the best infrastructure in the world and one of the most enviable lifestyles - don't listen to the doom merchants, if the house is for your enjoyment then you are well ahead of the pack.
thanks for all that between yourself and jim we will have had some realy good advice i did live in germany moved all over finaly spent longest timr in berlin i know it a superb place to live on and on i could go on about the place not familiar with area we have bought in thuringa needto do some more research needto come over cant just yet
just popped back for some furniture. many thanks carol for the water of life, hey the painting is a bit slap dash but I had a good time doing it. hmm think it needs doing again. lovely to see you and your gang and I'll get someone round to look at your place asap. (asap means morgen in germany) they never seem to be in a hurry.
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