I've read the posts on Germany and was gathering all the information I can before going over next year to take a look for myself.
What are the pros and cons for buying in Germany over the other cheaper markets in the EU like Bulgaria, Turkey, Romania or Poland etc?

Do I take it from the lack of replies that Germany is a dead duck or is it that there are some canny people out there who don't want to share any info with the likes of me?

I asked some German friends about this last night. They said that property prices doubled between 1986 and 1992 and have declined slightly ever since. The population is reducing and people prefer new builds.

Some see that stagnation as an opportunity - others as a "dead duck" as you say.

Germany has a vast array of property prices. You can pay 1.5 million EUR for an apartment in a desirable area - or peanuts for a ramshackle place in the east in an area of few amenities - and anything in between.

I live in the state that has the highest income in a "deisrable". Two bed apartments start at about 100,000 GBP. Three bed houses in the suburbs and atached towns can be less. And expect to pay 5% purchase cost (far more than UK equivalent)

The trick is not to assume that "relatively cheap compared to the UK" equals dead cert to rise :O. But then that is the nature of investment - we'd all make shedloads if we *knew* what is going to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by jl146:
Do I take it from the lack of replies that Germany is a dead duck or is it that there are some canny people out there who don't want to share any info with the likes of me?

Ive invested. Nice and safe and highly unlikely to lose capital as prices already bombed. On the other hand a significant price increase potential. So cheap like say Poland but a lot less risky.

Many UK investment firms have been spending billions in the last 18 months. They include cautios very high performing property companies such as Kenmore out of Edinburgh.

I do a lot of research into this and even found out the big funds such as Norwich Union are getting in.

Other funds such as Dawnayday Treveria have themselves attracted the big gun shareholders such as Lehman Brothers and many more. These are hard nosed investors.

I pretty much ignore the doomsayers. The same people would have said Northern UK cities were a dud in 1995, or 1999 come to that (I recall newspapers saying high "unemployment mean investing in the North is folly").
They forget CHANGE HAPPENS.

Germans will soon have accses to UK high loan to value mortgages. At the same time they are just finding out pensions cant be relied upon any more - sound familiar?

Note also some trends - Dresden now has unemployment as 3.8% and falling. Thats lowere (for the first time) that Cologne in the West.mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

So might as well be at the party. If it doesnt boom you still get your shirt back which cant be said of Bulgaria et al.

quote:

Originally posted by Thorr:

Germans will soon have accses to UK high loan to value mortgages. At the same time they are just finding out pensions cant be relied upon any more - sound familiar?

That is certainly true. German has an enormous welfare state that must be slowly dismantled. Unemployment is still high overall. Parts of the east are thriving (but by no means all) whilst the western industrial heartlands struggle to modernise with the result of mass unemployment of middle-aged men (just like the UK in the early 80s in many ways)

Against that, Germany is a big country and has few controls over new-builds so less constraint over supply.

I am looking to buy (to live in probably). Checked out a two bed flat for 100,000 GBP and even saw studos for 25,000 . Just like old times .

Here's a tip for you, make a list of 3 different types of property in 3 different locations, i.e flat, house apartment block in a town, city and village or countryside.
Next step find the best deal available in each catagory and wait 6 months, then try and find similar properties and record how much more you would have to pay.

In this way you can find out for yourself just how quickly prices are rising and which markets it's moving fastest, if you ask other people they will each give their own take on things which maybe very different from what you will find yourself when trying to buy or sell.

That said, I will say that demand remains and outstrips supply in the major cities and is continueing to push up prices, but long term 10 - 15 years, rural areas could prove a better investment because the prices are dirt cheap in so many rural areas and is only a matter of time before people catch on. Luck at bulgaria 8 years ago, you could buy a luxury seeside villa for €10 - 15,000, now you have to pay €250,000 - €400,000 for that same villa, and all that price increase has been caused by foreigners buying because everything was so cheap to start with and then continued because people saw the prices rising and wanted tomake money.

World property markets go through cycles and no place that has really cheap property stays cheap for to long, unless it's a war zone.

I have read several articles about Berlin being a hot spot recently but there don't seem to be many estate agents on the internet offering property in the city. The ones that do have very few apartments and they all seem to be in the same few blocks. Has anybody actually visited the city and spoken to any agents or viewed any properties. Is there actually a lot more available than can be acccessed on the internet. It seems to me that quite a few of the apartments that are up for sale actually come complete with tenants but apparently this is not an ideal situation because it restricts any rent increases. Any views on buy-to-let and capital growth prospects in Berlin would be most welcome.

For jl146.
I can assure you that none of the countries you've listed are cheaper than can be found in Germany. Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of it. Do what I've done travel to all of those countries and just take a look at the infrastructure and then go take a look at German infrastructure, way of life, standard of living and standard of life then look at how much that wreck in Poland cost compared to a similar wreck in Germany - no competition.
Recently bought a lovely little cottage in the Thuringer wald. Needs about 40k pounds spent on it to give me a beautiful barn house, with garage + 2br flat above it and a 1/4 acre cherry and apple orchard at the back.Oh by the way the house cost me 23k in the first instance.
I've done this many times over the last couple of years and it's always been bang on time, bang on budget and only once not bang on investment (my own stupid fault for not listening to my project manager)

quote:

Originally posted by gae567:
I have read several articles about Berlin being a hot spot recently but there don't seem to be many estate agents on the internet offering property in the city.

Well I have now taken the plunge and bought in Germany (as a home, not investment) . I put a thread on the mains home board (new build).

In respect of the above, there are a lot of agents here but most do not particularly prioritise a web presence. "Immobilien" is the usual term but many companies who sell properties do not use the term. Organisations like banks also sell property.

I did use websites when I was looking but most had nothing at all in my (fairly large) home town. Old fashioned methods like the local property paper and even placing a small ad in the local paper are better sources.

Vonreisa is right. You need to go there and check it out and make contacts.

Vonreisa - Thuringia is my favourite part of Germany, it is stunning .

For German language sites, just type "Immobilien" in google and you come up with the likes of this:

http://www.immobilienscout24.de/

Wohnung (dwelling) is the category you need. Most sites show both for sale (Kauf) and rentaL(Miete) properties.

You may also find this helpful:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/main.jhtml?xml=/pro...3/20/pgermany120.xml

quote:

Originally posted by vbland:

quote:

Originally posted by gae567:
I have read several articles about Berlin being a hot spot recently but there don't seem to be many estate agents on the internet offering property in the city.

Well I have now taken the plunge and bought in Germany (as a home, not investment) . I put a thread on the mains home board (new build).

In respect of the above, there are a lot of agents here but most do not particularly prioritise a web presence. "Immobilien" is the usual term but many companies who sell properties do not use the term. Organisations like banks also sell property.

I did use websites when I was looking but most had nothing at all in my (fairly large) home town. Old fashioned methods like the local property paper and even placing a small ad in the local paper are better sources.

Vonreisa is right. You need to go there and check it out and make contacts.

Vonreisa - Thuringia is my favourite part of Germany, it is stunning .

Vbland - No doubt about it mate MOST of the Thuringer Wald is a hidden gem - thank gawd the masses haven't found it to ruin it - YET.
I'd struggle to come up with an absolute favourite spot in Germany. So many are so good for so many different reasons. Bodensee/Lake Constance area would make the list as would most of the Mosel valley, Berlin is just so dynamic it's difficult to not to have fun there, Dresden is without a doubt my favourite city and the banks of the Elbe can match the Moselle. I like the Schwarzwald before the tourists get there (June is great). Sorry mate I could go on and on. I just love the country and most of the people in it. They work hard, they play hard by and large they are more honest than their Brit counterpart. Sorry - already starting to go on and on.

I loved that whole route from Erfurt through Gotha to Tabarz (mostly by tram). Shame Ryanair's route did not last long .

I have friends in Konstanz and it is glorious, I agree. Freiburg is similar in some ways.

It is a bit of a cliche but the Rhine route is great - the slow train from Koblenz to Weisbaden is fab.

Koblenz is possibly my favorite city in Germany but there are just so many to choose from . I am lucky that my location (Frankfurt) puts so many within a couple of hours .

I like the east of the country. I am not that enamoured of Dresden or Leipzig though but I love Berlin .

It would appear we are doing a better job of promoting Germany than their tourist offices.
By the way have you ever been to the Lubbeck/Schwerin area. Slow train from Koblenz to Weisbaden iis now on my "Things to do list"
Hard to argue with you about Koblenz spent a wonderful if drunken long weekend camping out in Koblenz during the wine festival ahhh memories. If you are ever in the East with a spare day on your hands take a butcher's at Bautzen or Stolpen - glorious. Meissen also, and then there's Torgau and as for Potsdam I really should tell everyone about ..........

Thanks for the tips . Lubeck etc is one area I have not been to yet, Bavaria is another.

I know Potsdam - had an al fresco curry in the centre last time I was there, great .

keep your eye on the A38 autobahn from Gottingen to Halle/Leipzig. when its finished then Im told by German friends that prices will rise along its route as the towns either end get more expensive it will become the German equivalent of the M4 corridor. and we all know know how expensive that is to buy into

I think that is probably over-egging it a bit .

I live in what is the most prosperous part of Germany - the highest per capita income in the country, and the highest per capita GDP in Europe (by a long way).

Yet prices here are nothing like the UK's average (let alone the more expensive parts).