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One Silver Star
Posted
I've been flicking through the topics and I notice no-one has mentioned anything about North Cyprus (the Turkish side).
I holiday there every year and I can assure you people have heard and are buying/ building in DROVES. It's a great country, the lfestyle is more relaxed than mainland Turkey (yes, it is possible!) and people are buying for exactly the same reasons as Turkey (entry for Turkey to the EU will likley quadruple house prices).

Just wondering... no-one else looking at North Cyprus?!


No URLs in Sigs.
 
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i agree with you, but now that the politics are changing there are stories of greeks coming back to claim old property and some people have been caught.
 
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<neil hodgin>
Posted
i am going on an inspection trip soon so i am hoping it is everything we are expecting?
 
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Two Gold Stars
Picture of Angelus the Vampire
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There were a few threads a while ago about buying in northern Cyprus.

Perhaps they`ve "fallen off" the last page???


********************************
John Smith: So what am I then? Nothing. I`m just a story.

Doctor: You`re an echo. That`s all. A TimeLord is so much more. A sum of knowledge; a code. A shared history. A shared suffering. Only it`s gone now, all of it. Gone forever.
 
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One Silver Star
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quote:
Originally posted by shirleyanntr:
i agree with you, but now that the politics are changing there are stories of greeks coming back to claim old property and some people have been caught.

Interesting, I've been there for the last 4 years, the border opened up two years ago but I've not heard any of this.
Also, if you build property yourself how can it be reclaimed, the land never reverted?, especially as I find it VERY unlikely the Greeks would be letting the Turks pop across to the south to do any reclaiming.. not sure about that one but I shall investigate.


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Two Gold Stars
Picture of Angelus the Vampire
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Considering that the Greek Cypriots feel that their land was stolen from them in the invasion, and that they refused to reunite with the Turkish Cypriots to form a single Cyprus for entry into the EU, I`d say that there is still some animosity from the south.

The Northern Turkish Cypriots may not feel or have any animosity towards the south of the country, but then it wasn`t THEIR land that was stolen from them, and they weren`t forcibly told to pack a suitcase and get out of their homes, were they?


********************************
John Smith: So what am I then? Nothing. I`m just a story.

Doctor: You`re an echo. That`s all. A TimeLord is so much more. A sum of knowledge; a code. A shared history. A shared suffering. Only it`s gone now, all of it. Gone forever.
 
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Having just returned from 2 weeks in Northern Cyprus and met some lovely Turkish Cypriot people all I can say to Angelus is - please get your facts straight before posting. It is my understanding that the majority of land that was owned by Turkish Cypriots in the south of the island has been built on - Larnaca Airport being one of them.
 
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Two Gold Stars
Picture of Angelus the Vampire
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quote:
all I can say to Angelus is - please get your facts straight before posting. It is my understanding that the majority of land that was owned by Turkish Cypriots in the south of the island has been built on - Larnaca Airport being one of them.


Your point actually being?

Please tell me which "facts" I have wrong?


********************************
John Smith: So what am I then? Nothing. I`m just a story.

Doctor: You`re an echo. That`s all. A TimeLord is so much more. A sum of knowledge; a code. A shared history. A shared suffering. Only it`s gone now, all of it. Gone forever.
 
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One Silver Star
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Sizzy.
Don't bother. People who have one take on a subject only ever see one point.
I have heard everything there is to hear about the Cypriot conflict between the Turks and the Greeks.
This person says, the Turks invaded and took there land... doesn't mention that there was a large native populus on the island that was Turkish and thus alluding that the Turks invaded and took 100% Greek own land is 'interesting' to say the least.
Also I hear much of exactly HOW those Turks were treated and the actual reasons behind the invasion of Cyprus by Turkey... these are things rarely brought up because obviously the invading turks did it for erm... land?, no.. money?, erm no... yeh Angelus... tell me another story!


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Two Gold Stars
Picture of Angelus the Vampire
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quote:
yeh Angelus... tell me another story!


Perhaps YOU should tell ME a story then. Why DID the Turkish Army annexe the North of the Island and kick the Greek Cypriots out?

All I have to go on is what I read when I search history books. They ALL show that the invading Turkish Army are the Big Bad Guys.

So, Viper, give me the Turkish side of things. I would like to hear (and I`m being genuine, not sarcastic).

But whatever the truth of the matter, the Greek Cypriots do still feel aggrieved towards the Turkish "invaders". It`s why they refused to reunite with the north to reform into one single country for entry into the EU. Which is why the South is part of the EU, and the North is not (at least not until mainland Turkey get to join).

It is this animosity that has put off my other half and I into considering buying property anywhere in Cyprus. The south is too expensive and populated for my liking. The north is far cheaper and much less populated, but I`d be forever worried about the greek cypriots demanding their homes/land back.

Where would we stand if that should happen? How much would it cost should it go to court? etc etc etc.


********************************
John Smith: So what am I then? Nothing. I`m just a story.

Doctor: You`re an echo. That`s all. A TimeLord is so much more. A sum of knowledge; a code. A shared history. A shared suffering. Only it`s gone now, all of it. Gone forever.
 
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One Silver Star
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I'll give you a simple analogy for the sake of logic.
How many wars have there been throughout history where the history books have written the 'truth' in the manner of one party.

You seem to have a very 'odd' view on the state of affairs in Cyprus, to which I am no expert I will admit, but I do know MANY Turkish-Cypriots whose original land and homes are now on the Greek side of the island.
As I attempted to explain previously... Cyprus was NOT a solely Greek island with only Greek inhabitants as you appear to think, many of those who lived on the island previous to the invasion by Turkey were Turkish.

Therefore. In order for Greek-Cypriots to want land from the North... there would be similar claims from Turkish-Cypriots wanting land from the South.

I find it very unlikely that this would ever occur as esculation of tension between Turkey and Greece over Cyprus is not something I feel either country would like to revisit.


No URLs in Sigs.
 
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Picture of Angelus the Vampire
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quote:
I'll give you a simple analogy for the sake of logic.
How many wars have there been throughout history where the history books have written the 'truth' in the manner of one party.


The history books are written by the WINNING SIDE in a war.

The incident with Cyprus is written as a "Turkish Invasion" not as a country siezing back control of it`s property. Much the same way as we refer to the Argentines invading the Falklands, rather than the Argentines trying to regain Las Malvinas. The same way we say that Hitler invaded the other countries of Europe. Tha`ts because "we" won those battles. We don`t refer to the British Army/people as "invading" Africa, or the Americas or Australia. We "colonised" those countries. As far as the original inahbitants are concerned - Colonisation is no different to invasion )

May I direct your attention to this web site?

http://turkeyhumanrights.fw.bz/CypHistory.htm

Seems to be an unbiased piece of history information.

It states that Turkey SOLD Cyprus to the British. Therefore it had no rights to the country. The Cypriots of Turkish origin could choose to return to Turkey as Turks, or stay in Cyprus as British nationals. Turkey decided to renege on it`s agreement when Cyprus was negotiating its own independence from UK.

As to the Turkish Cypriots who were living in the South. You`re right, they were forced to go north to the occupied part of Cyprus. But NOT by the Greek Cypriots, but by the invading Turkish Army.


********************************
John Smith: So what am I then? Nothing. I`m just a story.

Doctor: You`re an echo. That`s all. A TimeLord is so much more. A sum of knowledge; a code. A shared history. A shared suffering. Only it`s gone now, all of it. Gone forever.
 
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<Martin C>
Posted
As I understand it the history is as follows. In 1959 there was treaty between the two communities guaranteed by the UK and Turkey which led to the 1960 Constitution and the formation of the Republic of Cyprus. In effect there was power sharing with the rights of the minority Turkish Cypriot community being protected. Over the ensuring years the Greek Cypriots began to exclude the Turkish Cypriots. This was contrary to the Treaty and the Constitution. Ethnic cleansing began and eventually Turkey, citing its obligations as guarantor of the Treaty, put its troops onto the island in order to protect the now disenfranchised Turkish Cypriots.
 
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Visit the web addy I posted.

It shows the complete opposite to what you understand.

Turkey "sold" it`s rights to Cyprus to the British way back in 1878 in return for military aid.

When Cyprus started to negotiate with the British Government for independence, Turkey renaged on the contract, and wanted Cyprus back under its control.

When Turkey sold its rights to Cyrpus, the Muslims (ie those of Turkish origin) were given the choice of returning to Turkey, or staying, becoming British citizens.

When Turkey decided to reclaim Cyprus, it trageted both the Turkish Cypriots and the Greek Cypriots.

After the Invasion, the Turks formed concentration camps for those Greek Cypriots caught in the invasion hit north. The Turkish Army then threatened Cyprus with further invasion and sanctioned the use of force against those Muslim Cypriots living safely in the south. They demanded that the Rpublic of Cyprus forcibly send the Muslims north in return for the safe return of the Greek Cypriots held in the north.

After swapping peoples and other "ethnic cleansing" policies, no christian greek cypriots live in the northern territories.
Turkey has repeatedly failed to get international recognition or acceptance for it`s occupation of North Cyprus. Even the original muslim turkish cypriots have been more than replaced by Turkish settlers after the invasion. Around half of the muslims moved north reamin in Cyprus.

If you type in "Turkish Invasion of Cyprus" in your search engine, you`ll get loads of web site addies up. ALL give the same scenario.


********************************
John Smith: So what am I then? Nothing. I`m just a story.

Doctor: You`re an echo. That`s all. A TimeLord is so much more. A sum of knowledge; a code. A shared history. A shared suffering. Only it`s gone now, all of it. Gone forever.
 
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Two Gold Stars
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This process of politicising a thread on buying Homes in Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (recognised only by Turkey) perfectly illustrates the complexity of the current political situation and recent political history.

However, it also illustrates the danger of over simplification. Phrases like "concentration camp", "ethnic cleansing" and "invasion" are terribly emotive and in fact, some might regard them as offensive. Indeed, official Turkish sources including the in flight magazine you will read on your flight to Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (via Turkey) refer to the events of 31 years ago as "the 1974 Peace Action".

Moreover, it is factually inaccurate to state that:

quote:
"After swapping peoples and other "ethnic cleansing" policies, no christian greek cypriots live in the northern territories."


as there are several Greek Cypriot villages in the "northern territories" - although this term in itself is not defined in the posting - in the Karpas peninsular, also known as "the panhandle", because of its shape, in the English speaking community. Indeed, there are still to this day, regular food convoys to these villages, currently run by the Slovenian army under UN mandate, essentially because a minority of Greek Cypriots in the Karpas peninsular chose to remain and they therefore come under the UN's protection, even though actual fighting ceased many years ago. Moreover, there is also a mixed Turkish / Greek Cypriot village at Dipkarpaz in the Karpas peninsular.

I have used the Anglicised version of place names. When you travel on your inspection visits, you will probably realise that any maps bought in well known map shops in the UK will be next to useless - particularly if they have Greek and / or English names only, as these have been removed from the north and replaced by Turkish names. To state an obvious example, the Turkish name for Kyrenia is Girne. Local people will regularly use both Tukish and English names, often in the same sentence. Additionally, the roads are not numbered and there is a lack of GPS data for civilian purposes on the island.

Once you have worked your way through such idiosyncracies - which in fact perfectly illustrate why Cyprus is so fascinating - you might like to consider some of the following strategic and logistical points (this is by no means exhaustive, there is as always no substitue for doing your own research.)

Whilst driving (on the left) you will see lots of boards advertising property for sale "pre 1974 deeds" and they state this for a reason. Anything bought with deeds issued by TRNC authorities is a risk, in terms of future political developments.

There will have to be some form of political (and property) settlement at some point in the future. The recent opening of the border crossing points means that every Greek Orthodox bank holiday car loads of families come over to view their former residences, take photographs standing in their garden. Indeed, I happened to take the photograph for just such a family during the Greek Orthodox Easter bank holiday this year, in Kyrenia. A 98 and 96 year old couple and their whole extended family, numbering some 27 people altogether. Of course, the old couple had tears pouring down their faces because they had been obliged to leave their home all those years ago, but are the younger members of that family ever going to give up what they see as their rights to their family's property? Would you ? How would you feel if you lived in the great city of Manchester and had been forced to go to live in Dagenham for 31 years? When you visit the Karpas peninsular, where there is currently a proposal to make part of it a "national park" and thus restrict future development, you will notice the wild donkeys - these are the descendants of those animals left behind when some of the Greek Cypriots were forced to leave in 1974.

One of the common practices of unscrupulous developers is to sell a house, but to retain the land on which it is situated and to use that as security to raise finance for future development projects. Some people have found that they have been unable to sell their properties on in future years, for this reason. Thus, you need to buy the land as well as the actual buildings.

Additionally, there are other minor matters such as frequent water shortages on the island: often in the summer it is on only for a few hours a day. Electricity is much more stable now than it used to be.

All that said, however, you will find the local people incredibly helpful, kind and generous (the hourly rate of the waiters at the restaurants adjacent to Kyrenia harbour is c 50 pence an hour) and there is a British expatriate community numbering in its thousands which would probably also be a source of assistance. You could also try Jeff who runs the English language television programme on cable there.

No doubt all of these issues are common place elsewhere and there are probably even magazines which you can buy which deal with them - I would not know, I do not read them. I apologise for rambling on, I hope this is of some help and best wishes to anyone who ends up buying a property there. It is a stunning and beautiful island and the fact that just about any civilisation of any significance in the entire history of the northern hemisphere, including the British Empire, has "occupied" the island during its history, perfectly serves to illustrate what a significant island it has been - and still is, in many ways.

Best regards


---
Postings contain the use of sardonicism and irony, where appropriate
Aspiring to be on the Forum long enough to have a meaningless multi-line signature longer than any of my actual posts (although still within the C4 Forum rules)
 
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I have to say that buying in Northern Cyprus is one of the BEST things i have ever done. The sceanry is AMAZING the people great and the service very professional. I brought a home in the mountains over looking the sea and surrounded by Pine Forests for the cost of a one bedroom falt in London!!!! I brought with North Cyprus Properties, They are so professional. I would recommend them to anyone, their website is http://www.north-cyprus-properties.com I met Derya she is lovely!

I understand the land issues but there are comprehensive settlement plans from the UN and land that has been substantially developed cannot be reclaimed.

I would go 4 it!!!
 
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quote:
Originally posted by mizdezibo:

I understand the land issues but there are comprehensive settlement plans from the UN and land that has been substantially developed cannot be reclaimed.

I would go 4 it!!!


That makes it okay then, does it?

I find your attitude apalling. In Spain there is uproar because of the landgrabbing by unscrupulous developers, but going by your opinion it's okay because once the land is built on, tough luck to the real owners.

People were forced off their land in Cyprus and now, naturally, want it back. The fact that some 'get rich quick' developer has built holiday homes on it and convinced people like you to buy them does not detract from the fact that what they are doing is morally and ethically wrong. You are colluding in it and if and when the real owners reclaim their land you may find yourself owning nothing more then a pile of bricks. Please don't make a fuss if that happens because you haven't been warned, you have, you just choose to ignore it because of greed.
 
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Two Gold Stars
Picture of Angelus the Vampire
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Hello, MizzH. Smile


********************************
John Smith: So what am I then? Nothing. I`m just a story.

Doctor: You`re an echo. That`s all. A TimeLord is so much more. A sum of knowledge; a code. A shared history. A shared suffering. Only it`s gone now, all of it. Gone forever.
 
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Two Gold Stars
Picture of Angelus the Vampire
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quote:
I understand the land issues but there are comprehensive settlement plans from the UN and land that has been substantially developed cannot be reclaimed.


Please give web addy where this information is shown. Specifically about the "comprehensive settlement plans".

Thanks


********************************
John Smith: So what am I then? Nothing. I`m just a story.

Doctor: You`re an echo. That`s all. A TimeLord is so much more. A sum of knowledge; a code. A shared history. A shared suffering. Only it`s gone now, all of it. Gone forever.
 
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One Gold Star
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I think this political discussion requires a separate board to delve into the complex history of this divided island. You might bebetter advised to confine yourself to the property aspects - although politics do have a bearing on these.
I have friends on both sides of "the border" and am acqainted with the situation. I think the TV programme a couple of weeks ago dealing with property-purchasers in the north sounded a warning. It struck me as being a little unbalanced in reporting that Greeks from the south had been up in the north talking of reclaiming their land, knocking down newly-built houses and so on, and also uttering threats at one elderly lady. I think one should bear in mind that there were also Turkish-Cypriots who had to pack their bags and leave the south!
Just be aware that there MIGHT be an element of risk. It's not a high level of risk, but be aware that it exists. What is vital - apart from a surveyor - is a good solicitor who ensures that you have suitable title. I was amazed that one couple appearing on the programme had no deeds of any kind! That is plain foolishness, inviting disaster.
 
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OMG!!!!! has anyone ever read the history of Turkish Cypriots and the way they were enclaved by their Greek Cypriot 'friends'. Which to this day is STILL continuing with the political = economic and social embargoing of Northern Cyprus. ON sunday my friend was in Agia Napa and i asked her to visit me in the north. She went to the border and the Greek Cypriot police pulled her to one side and told her that if she crossed over to the North she would be beaten by the soldiers and threated and would not be safe????!!!!! What???? She was petrified and when i finally convinced her it was rubbish and she came across she was fine. In fact due to the greek cypriot attitude she has now decided to purchase a flat in Kyrenia and not in Larnaka as she had orignially planned!

Again I REITERATE that buying in Northern Cyprus was a great choice and i would recommend it to anyone. if a Greek Cypriot says that NO TURKISH LAND in the south has been developed then they are lying.......LARNAKA AIRPORT is all originally Turkish Cypriot........can anyone dispute this????
 
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Two Gold Stars
Picture of Angelus the Vampire
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Have you read the website that I posted a link to?


********************************
John Smith: So what am I then? Nothing. I`m just a story.

Doctor: You`re an echo. That`s all. A TimeLord is so much more. A sum of knowledge; a code. A shared history. A shared suffering. Only it`s gone now, all of it. Gone forever.
 
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Dear All.


I again state that purchasing property in THE TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHER CYPRUS, was a great move on my behalf. The people are wonderful and the northern part of Cyprus is beautiful. If you want further advice about Northern Cyprus and the legalities of buying here, then contact EUPRO http://www.eupro.co.uk

They offer impartial legal advice on the political and legal position of propety purchases.

Thanks Smile