Thanks for that Angelous. I certainly wouldn't buy a place there. It smacks of Palestine.


lee

Hello Angelus,


Your answers are very interesting, you are very political. You are either a Greek Cypriot yourself or are being paid to cut and paste from propoganda websites that Greeks have set up. Please let me and the rest of the world know the evidence you have of Turkey planning to annex Northern Cyprus. I think that Turkish Cypriots would be interested to hear of this. As an independent state with democratically elected government and local officials i think there may be some opposition to this.

have you ever been to Northern Cyprus?

I am not Greek, I am not Cypriot. I have not been paid to cut and paste.

I remember asking you to provide web addies giving the Turkish point of view of the invasion, but you never have.

Do you have an explanation as to why the South was accepted into the EU, and the North was not?

Why do none of the holiday channels ever show holidays to the Northern Territories of Cyprus, even though they show plenty of holdays of the South AND mainland Turkey?

Why has Amanda Lamb, and other presenters, never shown properties from the Northern Territories when they`ve had families wanting homes in Cyprus?

Even visiting the Property Exhibitions that tour the country and that specialise in Cyprus, none feature the Northern Territories.

As to Turkey annexing the Northern Territories, don`t you think that is what it has ALREADY done? why else would there be such a large garrison of troops there??

How many of your new Turkish Cypriot friends lived there before the invasion? What were their experiences of that time? Did they live in the south? why did they go north? I really would be most interested in their stories. Assuming, of course, that you don`t edit them to suit your own point of view.

http://www.tcn-cy.freeuk.com/tcn45.htm

http://www.atcanews.org

http://www.eupro.co.uk

http://www.embargoed.com


Did you know that Turkish Cypriots made up JUST 18 percent of the population of Cyprus before 1974. Did you know that Turkish Cypriots were enclaved in their villages and forced to live in caves and fields. Did you know that EOKA fighters would randomly kill Turkish Cypriots, i think that Greek Cypriot propoganda always starts from 1974. It never actually states why Turkey was forced into the island. How can 18 % of a population have any effect on the majority??

Do you realise that Greek Cypriot journalists who try to explain the truth about why Turkey had to come onto the Island are expelled from Greek Cyprus. Have a look at Greek Cypriot newspaper the Cyprus Mail. It is unbised and has a lot about Greek Cypriot attrocities towards Turkish Cypriots http://www.cyprus-mail.com

No Turkish Cypriot i have ever spoken to preferred life before 1974.

quote:

Did you know that Turkish Cypriots were enclaved in their villages and forced to live in caves and fields.

No, I didn`t hear about them living in caves.

Having said that, did YOU know that people still live in caves in Gran Canaria? Cool in the summer, warm in the winter.

"A Place in the Sun" has featured more than a couple of times some exotic homes for english families that have been carved into the mountainside, and are basically, caves?

Ever been to Lanzarote? Heard of Cesar Manrique? A world famous architech. He lived in a home made out of lava bubbles. That was a cave. It`s now home to the Manrique Foundation, and it draws around half a million tourists every year. Manrique also converted another huge lava tube into an even bigger tourist attraction (Jameos del agua), featuring a bar, a pool, and a massive auditorium where the violinist Yehudi Menuhin played and who stated it had the best accoustics he`d ever heard. That was a cave. (http://www.cesarmanrique.com/indexi.htm )

>>No Turkish Cypriot i have ever spoken to preferred life before 1974.<<

You didn`t actually say whether they were living in Cyprus at the time of the invasion.

The first and second websites you gave are interesting.

The third website you gave is limited in info.

The fourth website you gave just led me to an advertising page

The fifth website just gave me todays news, nothing on the background.

But, the most important thing missing is why the Turks felt they had to invade Cyprus. Without THAT info, nothing else is relevent. The world at the time believed the Turks had no right to invade. The fact that the Northern Territories are still not recognised after 31 years means that the world still believes they had no right to invade.

And reading what you have written, in the way you have written it, even YOU are unsure as to the legality of the invasion.

I was very interested in this discussion. As an investor in the UK, I knew this year, with price stagnation I had to change tack and invest overseas. The first place I considered was TRNC, because of the great reputation Cyprus has for sunshine holidays, scenery etc and the strange imbalance in prices between north and south. I felt the prices in the north would catch up. However I took 2 steps before proceeding any further.

1. I asked veiws of fellow investors on property forums and I can honestly say I did not get one positive response. The overwhelming veiw was that it was too risky.

2. I contacted aquaintances I had who are missionaries living in TRNC, I figured I could definitely trust their opinion! I even offered to buy a flat for a needy friend of theirs to rent in Larnaca. But their advice after living there for 20 years was it was way too risky.

No axe to grind here. Those are just the facts. I bought in mainland Turkey in the end and am very pleased I didn't take the unnecessary risk of buying in disputed territory.

King regards

Thank you for your extremely patronising reply regarding Turkish Cypriots being enclaved. It is very disrespectful to all peoples of Cyprus who have suffered persecuation and belittles the experinces of all Cypriots. Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots are fully aware of the facts that happened. I am disgusted by your attitude and will no longer be posting on this forum board. I did purchase in Northern Cyprus and i am living here now and very happy. If people choose to purchase here then i am sure that they will not regret theer decisions.

quote:

Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots are fully aware of the facts that happened.

Indeed they are.

That is why it is still a divided country.

i noticed that some people had said they were buying in Norther cyprus or going for a visit
Can you give me any advice please

Yes, it is a good investment and will only get better in the next 3 to 5 years. The South is more vibrant and modern, with the pros and cons of that.

The North is how it was 30 years ago before mass, cheap and cheerful reached the south. It is unspoilt, old/decayed with the natural beauty that middle class, middle aged people will appreciate. In the next 3-5 years a deal will be made making travelling to the North quicker than it has been due to the travel embargo. Just wait and things will be better.

My advice which is 100% necessary to follow is buy on Turkish owned land or land which has been officially exchanged with the Greeks. Look at the map found on the Guaridan below to find out the land which is safe to purchase: http://www.guardian.co.uk/graphic/0,5812,911287,00.html

This show the Kofi Annan plan which is the result of 30+ years of bargaining with the Greeks and Turks. Avoid the land which will be given to the Greeks - Turks have accepted that they will give this away. The Greeks would have accepted the Annan deal if an extra 5 villages were also given away in the Northern 'pointy' tip. The Turks refused but may give literally 2 or 3 villages away in the future negotiations if they are desperate, but not more.

So stay to those areas which might be problematic and you will have a bargain home in a quiet, sunny environment which will only get better in the next few years.

Finally, buy stone built quality. There is a lot of development but if you can purchase a house 40+ years old it will last you longer than a new built. Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by marsh7:
Yes, it is a good investment and will only get better in the next 3 to 5 years. The South is more vibrant and modern, with the pros and cons of that.

The North is how it was 30 years ago before mass, cheap and cheerful reached the south. It is unspoilt, old/decayed with the natural beauty that middle class, middle aged people will appreciate. In the next 3-5 years a deal will be made making travelling to the North quicker than it has been due to the travel embargo. Just wait and things will be better.

My advice which is 100% necessary to follow is buy on Turkish owned land or land which has been officially exchanged with the Greeks. Look at the map found on the Guaridan below to find out the land which is safe to purchase: http://www.guardian.co.uk/graphic/0,5812,911287,00.html

This show the Kofi Annan plan which is the result of 30+ years of bargaining with the Greeks and Turks. Avoid the land which will be given to the Greeks - Turks have accepted that they will give this away. The Greeks would have accepted the Annan deal if an extra 5 villages were also given away in the Northern 'pointy' tip. The Turks refused but may give literally 2 or 3 villages away in the future negotiations if they are desperate, but not more.

So stay to those areas which might be problematic and you will have a bargain home in a quiet, sunny environment which will only get better in the next few years.

Finally, buy stone built quality. There is a lot of development but if you can purchase a house 40+ years old it will last you longer than a new built. Good luck.

That link currently leads to a page which contains The Guardian's headers and footers, but no content in the middle.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by marsh7:
My advice which is 100% necessary to follow is buy on Turkish owned land or land which has been officially exchanged with the Greeks. Look at the map found on the Guaridan below to find out the land which is safe to purchase: http://www.guardian.co.uk/graphic/0,5812,911287,00.html

This show the Kofi Annan plan which is the result of 30+ years of bargaining with the Greeks and Turks. Avoid the land which will be given to the Greeks - Turks have accepted that they will give this away. The Greeks would have accepted the Annan deal if an extra 5 villages were also given away in the Northern 'pointy' tip. The Turks refused but may give literally 2 or 3 villages away in the future negotiations if they are desperate, but not more.

So stay to those areas which might be problematic and you will have a bargain home in a quiet, sunny environment which will only get better in the next few years.
QUOTE]

By the way, there is alternative legal advice, which says that you should only buy on pre 1974 title deeds, ie, not Turkish deeds in the north.

That is EXACTLY what I was stating...buy on pre-1974 registered land. The records bureau on TRNC goes back to 1900.

To avoid any doubt and to provide clarity I have found the best link on this subject. The link is highly informative for those thinking of investing to decide one way or another. Please read info at:
www.propertyrepublic.com/?tpl=CyprusTitleDeeds

If anybody is interested in the history or politics of this island then the best and most impartial site, thus avoiding selective Greek and Turkish history, is found at wikipedia.com. The link is:
www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_dispute

I think Northern Cyprus is an excellent investment. People I know get there via flying to the South and crossing the border. Some Turks are patriotic and fly via Turkey. But we in the UK can go via Cyprus for a quicker, cheaper and more convenient flight.

"North Cyprus (turkish side)"

WTF!

Who made this topic?!There is no Turkish Cyprus.There is occupied Cyprus.They only thing I'll say to the people who are buying to occupied Cyprus is shame on you.How can u buy stolen property?Greek Cypriots were forced to live their homes,they left everyhting behind and they had to start from the begining.My mums a refugee and even if the borders are open we never crosed it once and we never will cz we are not going to our homes as visitors."TRNC" is ONLY recognised by Turkey.When you buy there is like you recognise it and you support Turkeys actions.How would you feel if you were a Greek Cypriot refugee,that is waiting for 32 years to go back and see the place who grow up and sudenly foreigners live in it after they bought itILLEGALYfrom those who invaded Cyprus?!Well you would have had every right to be upset!

If you dont have enough money to buy in Cyprus then you shouldnt buy at all.Buyin in ooccupied Cyprus is just wrong.I hope youll make the right decision if you thinking about moving to Cyprus.


Nephie

in reply to you nephie....what about the turkish cypriots who lost their land in the south??? not alot is said about them. also what about the "ethnic cleansing" of all turkish cypriots by the so called man of the church Bishop Markarios? all the women and children who were massacred by the greeks? if you want i can email you all these articles with pictures of babies who had been murdered by the greeks!! All we have heard the past 30 yrs is the greek side, and finally the Turkish side is having their say and the truth has come out. BTW I am not turkish or cypriot, but Indian and I have bought 2 lovely properties in Kyrenia, by far the best part of the whole of cyprus with the friendliest people!!

okay okay your all chatting crap cyprus is beuatiful all over and always has been i'm a greek cypriot born in england because my family had to leave cyprus my dad was in the war against turkey ( not aginst turkish cypriots) my dad had friends in his village that were turkish cypriot, if i could i would go back and get my dads land which was left to him by his parents my family, and we are in the process of reclaiming it but we would not be allowed to live there because of the TURKISH army but if someone tries to buy that land then i have every legall right to make them demolish any buildins and give me that land back as i have the tittle deeds pre 1974 and i am all for cyprus being reunited but that will only happen if turkey want to be in the eu and they make them do it to get in. turkish cypriot had to leave the south because the turkish army wanted them to. if you type in KYPROS-net you will see some horrible footage from 1974 you will also see how turkey did not abide by any ceases fire which was agreed. wouldn't you want to be able to live in briton anywere or in america would you like it if you were told you can only live down south, can you imagine south england and north england if scotland invaded england and took newcastle and leeds and manchester no i don't think so so have some consideration for the people who lost there love ones in the war or got injured in the war can you imagine someone telling you to leave your home with a gun to your head. i'm going to visit my dad's and his family's old house and cafe and plots of land which are currently under illegal occupation by turkish troops in THE NORTH PART OF CYPRUS this will be my first time and i'm looking forward to it but i think i will also be upset we( the cypriots) never told the turkish cypriots they weren't allowed down south but the turks stopped us from going to the north so please reply with your thoughts i have read a lot about what has happened in the past with cyprus and how it has been owned by many people and when they got there FREEDOM the turks wanted it back but with cyprus having the only splitt capitol in the world i think it is alful the only reason no-one has stepped in to rectify this is because cyprus has not got anything of value to offer (e.g OIL ) so America will not step in and nor will briton ( as they have done in Iraq and Iran & other countries that offer something of intrest or value to themselves . i will be happy to hear from Turkish-Cypriots Greek-Cypriots ANd any one else even turkish people as i have a couple of turkish friends who i don't hate for what happened as they did not do it but i will say one last thing make sure to buy land which is legally owned as i know a lot of greek cypriots who are in the process of reclaiming land and property and if you buy illegal ones then you will be left with nothing but bills to pay from court fees there is an artical about a mr & mrs Orams as posted in the Times newspaper on 22 november 2004 pleased read before you purchase any property in northan cyprus its an eye opener ( or type in Northern cyprus into google images thanks ......

This is a forum about buying property abroad not a history or politics forum.

As stated above, it is best to buy land which is owned by Turks pre-1974 or land which has been traded for lost land in the south. The title deed in Cyprus go back to 1905 and are computerised now so it should not be difficult. The Kofi annan plan is the result of 30+ years of diplomacy. It will not change much so one know the land which might be given back to the Greeks.

I have listed the wilipedia website on the history of cyprus. This is independent and contradicts the history given by the Turks and Greek, who both have selective memories when it comes to the troubles from the 1960's and 1970's.

As a historical note. Enosis (Union with Greece) has caused the Greeks a lot of grief. The Greeks after 1918 wanted the Agean coast of Turkey and Istanbul to be a annexed and become a part of Greece. They even invaded Turkey in the 1920's to make this happen. They were defeated in the war and the beautiful Greek mansions and Greek towns on the Agean were burnt to the ground and the rich, intelligent, powerful Greeks expelled. This was a great loss, all due to the dream of Enosis. Did the Greeks learn from this loss? No, they tried to get Cyprus to become a part of Greece with the idea of Enosis. The Greeks once again were rich, prosperous and powerful and conspired against the Turks. Once again they lost land. The Greeks should blame themselves for their treachery. Their loss is a result of their own hands to a weaker but dignified community. Greek history is a result of an endeavour to cover-up their mistakes and treachery.

Cyprus has not been unified because the Turks who have lived with the Greeks do not want to repeat that experience.That is why Dentash has been the leader for so long: he can be trusted not to unite the country. It is the younger community who have not lived with Greeks who voted for a union in the last referendum. They might change their minds which means that there will be no reunion and people can live even on Greek owned property for the next 200 years...making the fears academic.

Keep to the advise above and on previous posts so that we do not have to repeat ourselves. I am sorry if I have contradicted myself and made this into a political or historic forum. But take independent advise on history and finance and all will be well.

quote:

Originally posted by mizdezibo:
I have to say that buying in Northern Cyprus is one of the BEST things i have ever done. The sceanry is AMAZING the people great and the service very professional. I brought a home in the mountains over looking the sea and surrounded by Pine Forests for the cost of a one bedroom falt in London!!!! I brought with North Cyprus Properties, They are so professional. I would recommend them to anyone, their website is http://www.north-cyprus-properties.com I met Derya she is lovely!

I understand the land issues but there are comprehensive settlement plans from the UN and land that has been substantially developed cannot be reclaimed.

I would go 4 it!!!

Thats what they said about Lebanon and Palestine

quote:

Originally posted by DUBAIDREAMER:
in reply to you nephie....what about the turkish cypriots who lost their land in the south??? not alot is said about them. also what about the "ethnic cleansing" of all turkish cypriots by the so called man of the church Bishop Markarios? all the women and children who were massacred by the greeks? if you want i can email you all these articles with pictures of babies who had been murdered by the greeks!! All we have heard the past 30 yrs is the greek side, and finally the Turkish side is having their say and the truth has come out. BTW I am not turkish or cypriot, but Indian and I have bought 2 lovely properties in Kyrenia, by far the best part of the whole of cyprus with the friendliest people!!

"ethnic cleansing" of all turkish cypriots?!?! I suggest you to actually read some history,learn the facts,dont be biased and believe propaganda stories!

The number of Turkish refugees that had been moved to the north numbered only 1/5 of the greek refugees!!!The greek refugees might have inhabited some of their houses in the first year of the occupation; but the legitimate cypriot government built refugee housing all over cyprus which still exists today for the refugees to reside in.And the land which was owned by Turkish-cypriots.. has been for the large majority been left untouched and is zoned Turkish-cypriot land in Cyprus. Some is lent to greek-cypriot refugees to harvest crops; but it is not considere theirs! And also just to let u know the Cypriot government (i.e free territory) provides the occupied side with electricity and water!!!! Thats correct you heard right.. no charge because after all we still consider our borders at kyrenia and famagusta.. and of course the ungrateful Turks accept.

Imagine everything your father, your fathers father worked all day in the fields to accomplish meant nothing because they died knowing that someone else "owns" it.We can sit and argue about what happened in 1974 and throughout history but one thing is sure Cypriots were wronged in 1974 and you should be a little more sensitive and understanding.

quote:

This is a forum about buying property abroad not a history or politics forum.

I know,but when its about "North" Cyprus people shouldnt ignore the Cyprus problem.

Do not buy in ocuupied Cyprus,as "TRNC" is illegal you will not own the property regardless of what they say.You will end up losing "your" home.It is also illegal in the sense that in law, the sales act, it refers to the fact that for sombody to sell something they must have rightful ownership, this is not the case, effectivly Turkey dosnt own the land, the land is occupied land, therefore any abolishment of it would see your home as illegal and you would most likly been deported and be stripped of all ownership.

But above all it is immoral to buy land from someone who doesnt own it.

This is my last post about this..Its a shame that some people are so greedy but i guess the least we could do is let them know about it.

For info about Cyprus*Project - Cyprus 1974*