We have been property developing in the UK for several years now, we are coming to the end of a large project which should release a good profit which we would like to use to start a new life overseas.
I have spent hours and hours trawling the internet trying to decide where we should go to. Our intention is to continue developing in whatever country we end up in so this is a big part of the decision.
I am quite keen on Spain but am concerned as to whether there are any growth areas left with a good supply of property in need of some TLC!
Can you help? Any advice would be greatfully received.
hi, from a buying offplan point of view I shall suggest Morocco, howver buying a place to develop maybe a little harder in Morocco as more people tend to buy an apartment / villa on an new resort, good luck.
We have been property developing in the UK for several years now, we are coming to the end of a large project which should release a good profit which we would like to use to start a new life overseas.
I have spent hours and hours trawling the internet trying to decide where we should go to. Our intention is to continue developing in whatever country we end up in so this is a big part of the decision.
I am quite keen on Spain but am concerned as to whether there are any growth areas left with a good supply of property in need of some TLC!
Can you help? Any advice would be greatfully received.
Thank you.
What languages do you speak?
Are you familiar with legal systems in any foreign countries?
This sounds like a lifestyle decision you are making, so might be worth listing a few countries / locations to get people's views on.
I sence you prefer to experience culture, perhaps in a maturer market where there are character properties that can be done up and sold on, at a nice profit, to people looking for something a bit different.
If you like France then I'd suggest the LR region, particularly inland. Parts border Provence, at a fraction of the price, and have opportunities to do up barns etc.. Character properties in poor condition , ripe for upgrading, are non existnant in Provence.
Boy do I regret falling asleep during the football, its approaching half one and I'm wide awake!
The Soup Dragon, you were spot on with your comments with regards to lifestyle decision, culture etc.
I am currently learning Spanish and planning a trip in 5 weeks time to review locations and hopefully make some local contacts.
I have spoken to an agent in Spain who was quite helpful but feel I need more indpendant advice.
Our ideal would be to buy old properties, renovate and sell on (in the UK we focus on listed properties). However, we have the ability to build from scratch if need be.
We are in the lucky postion that my partner and his son are able to undertake pretty much every aspect of building/renovation. Our biggest hurdle is location and contacts!!!!
Any further guidance would be greatly appreciated. Locations, contacts etc. Although I have focused on Spain I am open to suggestion.
I would say Spain is very high risk. Honestly, many people Ive met cant sell thier places there. The problem is saturation.
Did you know Spain ownes a large chunk of Morocco? What about that region. Many Americans are buying in Morocco and they say more Brits invested than did in Portugal last year.
I dont think you should discount Morocco it really is the up and comming place to be. Even the Bransons have opened a hotel here. The owners of the Sandals brand are opening here as are many prestigious tourism groups.
ALWAYS INVEST IN A RISING MARKET. Spain is an old mature market - I think you will struggle to make much money here.
Did you know Ryanair have bought a hotel here. Try Saidia the town next to the first mega resort (I invested here). That town will boom once the resort opens and lots of Government money is going in.
Long season, close to Spain (90km from Saidia).
A small time family developer has been doing this in Morocco - her posts are here somewhere but I cant remember where.
Also another UK poster is developing in Morocco, I think his thread is entitled 'be the developer'. Have a search. I think he was looking for partners and he seems very professional and experieinced.
Sorry if Ive got the wrong end of the stick, just me two penneth.
As you know developing is about buying right and adding value, oh yeah and selling. As Sarah Beeny says anyone can make money in a rising market. Developing and Specing in the Uk has definately got tougher over the last couple of years. The problem with Spain is that sentiment has shifted. I would do as much research as possible. I can confirm that having done it myself moving abroad with family to start a new business is a serious undertaking.
Yes, Turkey is a very attractive place for many reasons - but stay away from Alanya area, it´s too crowdy - look at spots like Kalkan/Kas; Kemer and Marmaris + Bodrum: High potential and nice surroundings. Best wishes JD
This article states that over 90% of mortgages in Spain are on floating rates (and they probably havent peaked with all the inflationary pressure thats in the system) and that the bubble there is biggers than the US.
Trump,Sugar, Buffet all say it's as much about the deals you don't do as the ones you do.
Does anyone on this forum seriously beleive were not in the final faze of a cheap debt driven asset bubble? Which means caution and timming are crucial.
This article states that over 90% of mortgages in Spain are on floating rates (and they probably havent peaked with all the inflationary pressure thats in the system) and that the bubble there is biggers than the US.
Trump,Sugar, Buffet all say it's as much about the deals you don't do as the ones you do.
Does anyone on this forum seriously beleive were not in the final faze of a cheap debt driven asset bubble? Which means caution and timming are crucial.
Pab - Ive followed a few of your posts for a while. You are wrong to assume the whole world real estate market acts as one.
The opposite is true, if the UK, US and Spannish markets crash which is possibility not be ignored, then money finds a new home.
Thats why Ive invested in various other new and rising markets such as Germany and Morocco.
Germany had a property crash in the East since 1995 or so, but that didnt mean the UK did.
Money always seeks a home - and many of us dont trust packaged investments anymore and cash is simply not a worthwhile longterm investment as it barely keeps pace with inflation.
Sitting around waiting for a crash is not the was, although I will take advantage if a crash occurs.
In the meantime its about buying into new and rising markets but only where the property / development is unique (99% of developments are same old same old luxury).
Where to buy - well surely you want the closest possible new market, with a long season and safe developments?
Global real estate markets (in the western world) have never been so interconnected and synchronised as today, here’s why. Central Bank Interest rates (I/R) over the last 6 years across many markets (US, UK, Euro, AUS, NZ ect) fell following the dot-com crash and the 9/11 attacks (to prevent a recession). This artificially cheap money along with the yen carry trade has polluted most financial markets/instruments. This worked and recession was not only prevented, a boom was also created. That boom was based on the public’s wiliness to borrow to buy property, which increased on paper allowing them to borrow a shed full more. I/R are now returning to more sensible levels (rates will continue to rise in the UK and Eurozones). I feel US I/R have probably peaked but even if the Fed starts to reduce it will not prevent the biggest US property crash since the late 1920’s. The numbers/stats coming downstream in the US are scary. It’s not just sub-prime mortgages, but also Alt-A and $400+ jumbo loan McMansion buyers being repossessed by the 1,000’s.
There will be a world wide correction in property prices over the next 3 to 5 years and in many markets this will mean a 25% price reduction minimum (some property in some markets will fall much further). If anyone seriously believes that new emerging markets like Morocco, Egypt, Dubai, Romania and Bulgaria will be spared, then they’re in for a shook. The two areas hit the worst will be the biggest/fastest rises away from fundamentals, that have displayed a ‘build and they will come attitude e.g Ireland/Dubai/Florida the Costas/Bulgaria etc. And the second will be new areas that a few years ago no one was seriously considering Cape Verdi, Morocco etc.
The vast majority of People under forty years of age have only seen falling/stable inflation, low I/R and rising property prices. This has led many to believe property prices only ever go up. Many will now learn some painful financial lessons.
It’s normally a recession that leads to a property crash. This time it may be a property crash that leads to recession. No one can say they haven’t had a couple of years of warnings.
I felt too exposed to a UK crash hence methodically selling UK B2L in the last while. The point is to buy into a rising market. Morocco is in its infancy and will only benefit from a UK / Spain crash.
Thats not to say I dont also invest in other arena's such as cash and Unit Trusts, but to make robust gains you have to be imaginative,.
DONT FORGET THESE SITES WONT BE READY UNTIL 2010.
The real bonus is that I'm only in for a relatively small amount of capital until then, thanks to staggered payments.
If a UK / Spain crash comes - it will be quite soon.
I believe N Moroccan quality property will approach Spannish coastal prices - dont nforget this is a global world with investors from all over so the Costas are'nt the edge of the known world.
The point is to get in now a far cheaper prices than will be present in 5 - 10 years. To sit about worrying about global recessions is pointless - life goes on.
I am sorry to say some of you are seriously mis informed when it comes to Spain. The costas, just like some areas of UK are seriously overpriced and over developed.
BUT you only have to look at the shift of busineses out of places like Madrid to other provinces ( Like Murcia, where I live )to see that prices here are stradily climbing, no boom now but good steady appreciation.
I would highly reccemend coming to Murcia, just look in the LOCAL estate agents in teh city of Murcia, not on the coast and then work it out.
If you are interested in Morocco, we have just bought a house in Asilah medina for small renovation project. The medina has had a lot of interest from Spanish in the last few years with high income individuals stripping out & doing a complete rebuild behind the original facade & prices are higher than other areas like Essouaria for example. Asilah medina is small compared to Tangier...only about 500 houses in all...so one of the bigger cities may work better for you. Tangier is experienceing a lot of interest on the property front although it is mainly new build flats whether this will trigger a surge in renovation of the medina...well you need to do your own research on that one. Alternatively you might want to check out Agadir or Essouaria?? Renovations in any medina need planning as the access is limited to mule carts for most properties. Plus in Asilah ALL work must have planning permission - even if you are not changing the exterior in any way. I don;t know if that is the case every where. We will use a local team as they are familiar with working with traditional materials, they can negotiate discounts & labour is very cheap.
I would like to suggest Algarve, Portugal. It is just 2:30h from UK, so holiday buyers know the can go there for long week ends or city breaks, it is never too cold or too hot as in Spain, Morocco or Turkey. Most Portuguese speak at least a bit of English, which is very helpful for a foreigner. The second area to develop will be the northern province of Algarve, Alentejo. There is no terrorism, Portugal is one of the safest countries in Europe (Lisbon f.i. was considered the safest capital of Europe in 2006). The food is great and the Portuguese have a long historical tie with England. If you want to know about development land I can help you.
Murcia province in Spain still has huge growth potential, but not on the coast.
Plenty of larger properties that need TLC or complete restoration.
Murcia is said to be going to be as big as Madrid by 2010. The rate of investment here by major consumer companies is huge. New shopping malls ( some would put the best of the US ones to shame ) More golf ccourses than anywhere else.
If you need some help let me know ( NOT AN ESTATE AGENT !! ) and I am sure there are some here that are ( especially some advising Morocco )
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Imoreal: I would like to suggest Algarve, Portugal. It is just 2:30h from UK, so holiday buyers know the can go there for long week ends or city breaks, it is never too cold or too hot as in Spain, Morocco or Turkey.
I agree the climate there is lovely - but the sea is bloody freezing all year round!
How about Italy? An established market but also an emerging one if you know what I mean!
Climate is superb, traditional Italian food is great, very civilised, not far from the UK etc..
I am not an expert in Italian property (I am for holidays!) but as it is an established market there are bound to be some good renovation projects. Sicily is quite cheap.
I'm with you, Stu H - we thought southern Italy gave us the right balance of low property prices, good rental opportunities, fantastic coast, great climate etc etc.
One development is about to be launched on the west coast in San Lucido that will give you a 1 bed apt for 50,000 euros!
How about Italy? An established market but also an emerging one if you know what I mean!
Climate is superb, traditional Italian food is great, very civilised, not far from the UK etc..
I am not an expert in Italian property (I am for holidays!) but as it is an established market there are bound to be some good renovation projects. Sicily is quite cheap.
Oh, and they make half decent coffee.
Stu h, You're completely right. To me Italy is the field where to invest or just move in. Climate, food, wine, sun, sea, wide and unspoilt areas especially in Puglia, my favorite region and upcoming property market.
HI there, I would suggest Montenegro coast. I am acctualy from there and I have some land my grand father has left to me.Any way while all the others were selling land to foreigners I have bought 500m2plot of land (could not afford more). Now,6 months later the price of same land is more than double. This area is going to be next Monte Carlo. Here is the calculation example. Lets say: Plot of land of 1000m2 with the sea view 150000e building permits and licenses appr 50000e cost of building 2 flors by 800m2/total of 1600m2 appr 1000000 total cos is 1200000euros. The price per m2 after it's built is 2500 to 4000euros. So you can sell it for arround Four MILION EUROS. This is calculation for the moment but the prices are still going up and it is expected to be like that for year or two. Djani
