I've been drawn into viewing SKY channel 287 "OverseasPropertyTV" in recent weeks.
This channel seems to be run by MRI. All the programming seems to be thinly veiled advertsing for the parent company (MRI) with the consistent underlying marketing message being:
- Buy offplan overseas property. - Buy through a reputable management (aftersales) company. - It's worth paying more for the peace of mind a reputable management company provides. - Overseas property is a fantastic investment. - Overseas property is a fantasic retirement option. - Overseas property is a fantasic lifestyle option. - Overseas property is a fantasic way to get on the UK ladder. - Buy many properties and ignore short terms losses in order to become rich.
I particuarly love "Buy MRI Inspection Trip - xxx" replace xxx with Portugal, Turkey, Florida etc etc.....where a "genuine" couple experience an MRI inspection trip, always have a positive experience and end up buying one or more properties.
Has anyone on here had any experiences of dealing with MRI, been on an inspection trip, or just an avid fan of this channel like me.....I'd love to hear any anecdotes.
Originally posted by BTLOptingOut: Has anyone on here had any experiences of dealing with MRI, been on an inspection trip, or just an avid fan of this channel like me.....I'd love to hear any anecdotes.
Everybody has something bad to say about them, but seems that the threads that do so are deleted. Don't deal with them.
There is some sinister connexion between Channel4 and MRI which means that every negative thread which appears on them is removed. My guess is that MRI have threatened Channel4 with a lawsuit if they publish critical material. For myself, I wouldn't trust MRI for a minute if it is the case that they have to resort to legal threats to answer reasonable criticism.
Originally posted by taraca: Everybody has something bad to say about them, but seems that the threads that do so are deleted. Don't deal with them.
quote:
Originally posted by msej449: There is some sinister connexion between Channel4 and MRI which means that every negative thread which appears on them is removed. My guess is that MRI have threatened Channel4 with a lawsuit if they publish critical material. For myself, I wouldn't trust MRI for a minute if it is the case that they have to resort to legal threats to answer reasonable criticism.
Ahhh....I did wonder why a channel/program which makes such entertaining viewing didn't get a mention. I do think it reasonable for C4 to delete posts which are potentialy libellous in order to protect themselves.
But I think you've also made a very valid point. So many people in celebrity, entertainment and media have a business interest in this sector and these interests are very intertwined/interdependent.
It is therefore very difficult to publish/express an objective view that is contrary to the marketing messages these businesses want the viewer to consume.
Personaly I have no intention of purchasing any property via this route. In fact I am of the view that many of these "hot" locations are serously overbaked.
Once your offplan overseas property portfolio has been aquired, with: - Dubious rental returns. - A saturated market. what next, where is the exit strategy? Who is the potential buyer of your "little place in the sun"?
I do wonder if "overseas property" needs to be added as a line to the following entry:
Originally posted by BTLOptingOut: Finaly they are stuck with this holiday home that they are fed-up of visiting. The only exit strategy from this millstone is selling off at BMV.
Somebody will eventually be hold responsible for this. BUt I wonder who? People lost lots and lots of money because they were naive and estate agents took advantage of them.
There will be plenty of ghost towns around the world after the investment mania finishes in 2007.
Originally posted by taraca: Somebody will eventually be hold responsible for this. BUt I wonder who? People lost lots and lots of money because they were naive and estate agents took advantage of them.
There will be plenty of ghost towns around the world after the investment mania finishes in 2007.
Well i'm not sure anyone can be held responsible other than the purchaser..... Unlike other investments which are regulated by FSA, property investment is a total un-regulated sector.
I travel to Spain a lot, I love Spain and the Spainish way of life. If I was to buy in Spain I would want to live in a traditional Spanish property in a Spanish village/town.
I can't understand the appeal of these new "English" estates that are popping up. Completely new-build villas and appartments, often of poor build quality occupied by Little Britons.
Locals aren't interested in buying or living in these estates....they are also often targeted by crime as it it is considered victimless on a local basis. As taraca says, if these Eldorado (the BBC soap) estates fall out of favour with Brits they will indeed become ghost towns.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BTLOptingOut: Well i'm not sure anyone can be held responsible other than the purchaser..... Unlike other investments which are regulated by FSA, property investment is a total un-regulated sector. QUOTE]
I know that, but it should be regulated somehow to prevent future bubbles and pains. Everything was created for the estate agents to rip-off the buyers.
I am not sure what is going to happen. People will surely walk out their contract and overseas mortgages. The houses will go to the foreign banks who provided mortgages. As you said, Spanish people for example won't live there and anyway are not willing to pay inflated prices. The apartments will eventually resell for peanuts prices.
Originally posted by taraca: [QUOTE]Originally posted by BTLOptingOut: Well i'm not sure anyone can be held responsible other than the purchaser..... Unlike other investments which are regulated by FSA, property investment is a total un-regulated sector. QUOTE]
I know that, but it should be regulated somehow to prevent future bubbles and pains. Everything was created for the estate agents to rip-off the buyers.
I am not sure what is going to happen. People will surely walk out their contract and overseas mortgages. The houses will go to the foreign banks who provided mortgages. As you said, Spanish people for example won't live there and anyway are not willing to pay inflated prices. The apartments will eventually resell for peanuts prices.
Who is going to take the hit? Banks?
Seriously, where do you think apartments will resell for peanuts? Come to terms with the fact that people have realised that desirable land is finite whether its in the centre of London or the coast Spain. It will always have real value, it may go up or down over the years (like all asset classes) but the long term trend is up. I think you have a real case of sour grapes.
Originally posted by samrath: Seriously, where do you think apartments will resell for peanuts? Come to terms with the fact that people have realised that desirable land is finite whether its in the centre of London or the coast Spain. It will always have real value, it may go up or down over the years (like all asset classes) but the long term trend is up. I think you have a real case of sour grapes.
Hmmm so what's the market for all these Black Sea coastal apartments being built in their hundreds? It certainly isn't the local population.
Anyone who could possibly want to sun themselves on the Black Sea coast must surely own a piece of Bulgaria by now so where is the rental return?
What's your position on this samrath? Are you an overseas investor or an agent?
Sorry for my cynicism but I see so many newbie posters who join forums, say their apartments are making an excellent "pension"....provide a link to the agent they used...only to then disappear. The last one I had removed from a forum was dumb enough to use his real name as a nickname which was clearly identified on the link as company director.
Where's the sour grapes? It's hardly like the boat has been missed if you listen to overseasproperty.tv. I have the finance to secure a portfolio of 20 of these gastly things should I want to. Nope not a case of sour grapes but a case of spotting the Emperor stark 6ollock naked.
No mate I'm not an agent and I'm not harping on about how much money I've made from property. I agree with you on Bulgaria, it makes no sense to me as as an investment. In the same way there are shares I would not buy and commodities I would not invest in, property is just another asset class.
My point is don't slag off property (domestic or foreign) as a viable investment vehicle in general. You obviously have to use some common sense to differentiate the good from the bad. Nobody is saying that anything an EA flogs will turn to gold. Have a balanced outlook. Good property in good well sought after locations will always increase in value over the long term because its a finite commodity.
In the same way there are shares I would not buy and commodities I would not invest in, property is just another asset class.
My point is don't slag off property (domestic or foreign) as a viable investment vehicle in general. You obviously have to use some common sense to differentiate the good from the bad. Nobody is saying that anything an EA flogs will turn to gold. Have a balanced outlook.
I agree with the above points 100%....
Just to make my position clear:
I believe that some overseas property can be a great (and fun) investment. A lot (potentially majority) isn't.
The title and intention of this thread was about challenging the concept of "can't go wrong with overseas property" TV.
My "slagging off" within this thread should be considered within this sub-sector only.
Thanks for clarifying your interest....I see from other threads your target market is Morrocco beach front.
Don't you feel that has the risk to go the same way as Bulgaria as people pile in? Sure not a problem if you are a serious beach lover but a worry if you are relying on rental or hoping to flip?
Don't want to hijak this thread, so will simply point out that development on Morocco's coastal areas is less dense and better laid out. So far the Moroccan Government has taken care to avoid over development you see in Spain and Bulgaria. This, among other reasons, reduce the chances of Morocco going the same way as the Black Sea resorts.
I realise I'm not doing justice to Morocco with what I've said above, I just don't want to hijak this thread with a Moroccan theme.
Come to terms with the fact that people have realised that desirable land is finite whether its in the centre of London or the coast Spain. It will always have real value, it may go up or down over the years (like all asset classes) but the long term trend is up. I think you have a real case of sour grapes.
Listen, you use the terms of real estate agents. Only they keep on telling people that land is limited, etc. NO person without vested interest would say that. In USA they used the same words and now they stay with huge chunks of lands that they have to sell now for peanuts prices as nobody is interested in the land anymore.
The long term trend is for sure up, but if you purchase at today's prices it might take 30 years before you gain anything in your "investment".
In what concerns sour grapes, I prefer to be circumspect in 2007 than to waste money on overvalued property abroad. You seem to be happy to overspend because money is too hot in your pocket.
In the same way there are shares I would not buy and commodities I would not invest in, property is just another asset class.
My point is don't slag off property (domestic or foreign) as a viable investment vehicle in general. You obviously have to use some common sense to differentiate the good from the bad. Nobody is saying that anything an EA flogs will turn to gold. Have a balanced outlook.
I agree with the above points 100%....
Just to make my position clear:
I believe that some overseas property can be a great (and fun) investment. A lot (potentially majority) isn't.
The title and intention of this thread was about challenging the concept of "can't go wrong with overseas property" TV.
My "slagging off" within this thread should be considered within this sub-sector only.
Thanks for clarifying your interest....I see from other threads your target market is Morrocco beach front.
Don't you feel that has the risk to go the same way as Bulgaria as people pile in? Sure not a problem if you are a serious beach lover but a worry if you are relying on rental or hoping to flip?
Thanks for the reply. Yes I agree the 'you can't go wrong with property TV' is nonsense. One must be vigilant not to be taken in, but then its no different to similar advertising for endowment schemes, equity based pensions that have afflicted so many. One has to be careful not to be taken in by 'golden opportunities' As for Morocco cf Bulgaria, I must say I don't like Bulgaria full stop. Its cheap, tacky the weather is shite, food is awful the list goes on. If Morocco is anything like that (I haven't been there yet) I would not invest. I'm not really interested in flipping, more a long term investor. Also, though the rental income would be welcome I'm not reliant on it. I would just need to convince myself that Saidia really is going to end up as a quality, sought after prime development.
Come to terms with the fact that people have realised that desirable land is finite whether its in the centre of London or the coast Spain. It will always have real value, it may go up or down over the years (like all asset classes) but the long term trend is up. I think you have a real case of sour grapes.
Listen, you use the terms of real estate agents. Only they keep on telling people that land is limited, etc. NO person without vested interest would say that. In USA they used the same words and now they stay with huge chunks of lands that they have to sell now for peanuts prices as nobody is interested in the land anymore.
The long term trend is for sure up, but if you purchase at today's prices it might take 30 years before you gain anything in your "investment".
In what concerns sour grapes, I prefer to be circumspect in 2007 than to waste money on overvalued property abroad. You seem to be happy to overspend because money is too hot in your pocket.
I think there is paranoia in your posts. You think I'm a EA because I think land is finite? So your answer to anybody whose opinion differs to yours is to accuse them of having a vested interest. OK then, I'll reveal my true identity........I'm the King of Morocco!! Ha Ha.
You are also wrong on the USA. Its too big to make sweeping statements about. Show me where good land is being sold for peanuts in New York, California etc. All depends on where it is. If you don't have the ability nor inclination to try and find the best thats your problem really.
As for the 30 year thing. I don't believe property cycles in UK/Europe/USA follow 30 year patterns. So I might have to wait 10 years if I'm really unlucky but thats alright, something else in a balanced portfolio will make up for it. One needs sensible, calculated exposure to everything over ones working life. Thats my theory and I'm sticking by it thanks
good land is being sold for peanuts in New York, California etc. All depends on where it is. If you don't have the ability nor inclination to try and find the best thats your problem really.
As for the 30 year thing. I don't believe property cycles in UK/Europe/USA follow 30 year patterns. So I might have to wait 10 years if I'm really unlucky but thats alright, something else in a balanced portfolio will make up for it. One needs sensible, calculated exposure to everything over ones working life. Thats my theory and I'm sticking by it thanks
New York, Nevada, California and Florida are probably the only regions you might know in USA. And believe me, in some not so bad parts of California land prices fell by 50% in one year. If you are really interested, do your homework and find the deals.
Originally posted by samrath: but then its no different to similar advertising for endowment schemes, equity based pensions that have afflicted so many.
Well actualy it is a bit different, those financial products you mention are regulated by FSA. There is strict legislation on what claims can be made and in the event of mis-selling, compensation is available. It is because of the mis-selling scandals of the 80's that we have this protection in place now.
That is not the case with these developments and there will be no come-back should the deal turn sour. Many of these are being oversold as badly or worse than 80's financial products.
It's a bit ironic that buyers are embarking on these purchases because of what happened in the 80's to financial products.
It's like swiming in the shark pen because someone got bitten in the crocodile pen 10 years ago neglecting the fact that all the crocs have since been shot.
Which "equity based pensions have afflicted so many"? Actualy it's not equity based pensions but final salary underfunded schemes which have suffered especially from company bankrupcy.
good land is being sold for peanuts in New York, California etc. All depends on where it is. If you don't have the ability nor inclination to try and find the best thats your problem really.
As for the 30 year thing. I don't believe property cycles in UK/Europe/USA follow 30 year patterns. So I might have to wait 10 years if I'm really unlucky but thats alright, something else in a balanced portfolio will make up for it. One needs sensible, calculated exposure to everything over ones working life. Thats my theory and I'm sticking by it thanks
New York, Nevada, California and Florida are probably the only regions you might know in USA. And believe me, in some not so bad parts of California land prices fell by 50% in one year. If you are really interested, do your homework and find the deals.
Your posts get worse. Are you really suggesting that I only know only 4 states in the USA?? I thought you thought I was an EA??? Half of my family is in California, nowhere worth mentioning there has dropped in value by 50%. Stop telling lies. Maybe you should explain to everybody how you are so qualified to comment with such conviction about property markets around the world
Originally posted by samrath: but then its no different to similar advertising for endowment schemes, equity based pensions that have afflicted so many.
Well actualy it is a bit different, those financial products you mention are regulated by FSA. There is strict legislation on what claims can be made and in the event of mis-selling, compensation is available. It is because of the mis-selling scandals of the 80's that we have this protection in place now.
That is not the case with these developments and there will be no come-back should the deal turn sour. Many of these are being oversold as badly or worse than 80's financial products.
It's a bit ironic that buyers are embarking on these purchases because of what happened in the 80's to financial products.
It's like swiming in the shark pen because someone got bitten in the crocodile pen 10 years ago neglecting the fact that all the crocs have since been shot.
Which "equity based pensions have afflicted so many"? Actualy it's not equity based pensions but final salary underfunded schemes which have suffered especially from company bankrupcy.
These schemes may well be regulated by the FSA but one has to read the small print and understand it ie your investment may go up or down. Its the same for property. Its not written in the contract that the value will go up. If anyone is not suspicious of an agent, who they know is paid on commission for a sale, telling you how fantastic a property is, well they
