How does eating out of bins help the starving people in the world?
How does handing out pamphlets do any good? How is that earning the right to use our health service and schools?
That millionaire probably gives more to charity each year than they ever could in a life time.
How are they promoting a better life? If we all decided to eat out of bins they would starve. I would get there before them and watch them shrivel and pray.
Too right mate, the way that poor wee girl was force fed the rotten fruit was a disgrace. They (millionaire) were a credit the way they behaved on the showdown.
I personally hope those idiots are moved on from their car park and get a grip.
It raised some interesting points for me. 1] i think the abolition of money is the best idea and goal for mankind. 2]I am not a Christian. the kind of social life the economic system dictate us to live is harmfull not only to our social spirit but harmfull to the spirit of the earth as well. Our environment suffers and inequality increases. Some say catastrophies are ahead! We should be looking at our life from a new precept, This christian couple were living away from capital as much as they could and their enviromental footprint would be much smaller than their rich brothers and sisters. Its a shame they couldnt find somewhere to put up a decent tent or bender so they could ditch the environmentally unfreindly mobile home. but we dont live in a perfect world. Capital [investment money], it chase, causes a much less freindly spirit. Isnt it good our spirits are free and we dont need to give them to religions? The health of a capitalist [money] economy requires an expanding market, which drives us on to consume more goods and services. As our earth screams out consume less!
The freegans failed to realise that if more than 3 'families' also shared their plunder there would be no more scraps available. To suggest EVERYBODY should live the freegan lifestyle failed to realise the source of their bounty. VERY dumb. No income but using our schools. Adverts on TV the same night requested monthly donations of £12 to send a 3rd world child to school. The freegans missed this error in their thinking also. Dont get me started on dental charges, but this point was covered very well in the program. The final insult came at the end of the prog where the no income freegans had taken delivery of their 'new' campervan. No prices mentioned, a bad omission from C4 I think.
Nothing wrong with being a freegan.I'm one because I can't afford to buy much-I get my papers out of bins,for instance.However,I think that forcing young Darcey to eat that banana was indefensible.As is all this guilt complex talk about "starving children in the Third World"-which is far more the Third World's fault than ours.
Here are some ex JC members statted reasons for leaving the group,from the rickross forum reposted from there
1. David teaches and utilises deception (see past discussions about thefts and welfare fraud)
2. David teaches his group to IGNORE the teachings of Jesus in favour of his own interpretations (see Killers for Jesus thread where Dave justifies killing people when circumstances dictate)
3. David teaches his followers to run roughshod over the top of the feelings and concerns of family members by teaching them that they no longer have to have any contact with family members unless they accept JC doctrines of the group having final say on who comes in to there house.
4. David uses emotional blackmail on members families, ex members, and his own children by stating that they will not be permitted to see loved ones unless they comply with his dictates.
5. David teaches his members that it is OK to whip people for sins they have committed against his group (see discussion about the Kenyan volunteer they whipped on their "Quaker" community)
8. David teaches that he is an "annointed apostle" without which all would be led astray.
9. David has reversed his original "Churchianity VS Christianity" teachings by teaching the above "annointed apostle" doctrine as it negates previous teachings about each member having a direct connection to God without the need of hiearchial structures.
10. David directed his community to "break" one of his children, while ignoring the emotional crisis the son was experiencing.
I'm not sure what frog face is going on about, but it sounds like you have a few personal issues to deal with. You have stated some very strong things without a shred of evidence. The question is, why are you wanting to talk about personalities, when the thrust of this forum and discussion, is about issues. Can we get back to the issues being discussed here rather than get side-tracked with your apparent list of unfounded gripes.
Do you think wasting food is right?
I'm glad there is at least one voice on this thread (Nick) who seems to have some common sense and who can see that money really is the root of all madness. People have lost their sense of value, and while we believe money makes the world go round we end up doing such irrational things as destroying whole mountains of perfectly edible goods in order to increase the financial profits of a few individuals. We then justify that 'paying our taxes' is the benchmark of righteousness, regardless of whether what we are doing is improving the quality of people's lives around us.
People need to wake up and see that our current policies are unsustainable. People like Roland and Susan are hated by a large sector of society because a large sector of society doesn't want to change their selfish buying habits, standard of living, and thought processes to involve a bit more rational argument. Just because most people have gone insane, does not make them right.
Evil only triumphs in the world when good people choose to do nothing
I agree with Freeganised. Freeganism is a far bigger issue than just one group of people. Some people want to shoot the messenger, and this has happened all throughout history. There are people right across the spectrum of society who are starting to wake up to the amount of obscene waste our consumer economy is generating, and they are taking steps in their own ways to do something about it. THAT is what this programme aims to highlight. There are some parts of the world where eating a piece of fruit, ANY fruit, is a luxury item. And yet some people will cry out over someone eating a slightly bruised banana. Get real! It was not the banana that was rotten, but the fact that we are all spoiled rotten!
I think Fregganism is great and have even tried it myself. It's is a real shame that some people have a problem with it, but I guess we can't force people to be reasonable. I agree with Freeganised that Frog faces seems to have missed the topic of this thread. Weird.
[QUOTE="Terminal flatulence"] The freegans failed to realise that if more than 3 'families' also shared their plunder there would be no more scraps available. [/QUOTE]
Actually, you may be surprised to find out that there is a whole lot more food out there being wasted than what even 5 or 6 families could eat! In fact, the amount of waste can actually feed thousands of families. I think it's this kind of ignorance (for lack of a nicer word) that people like Roland and Sue were hoping to correct.
[QUOTE="Terminal flatulence"] To suggest EVERYBODY should live the freegan lifestyle failed to realise the source of their bounty. VERY dumb. [/QUOTE]
I know that it's hard to break out of the typical way of thinking, where we want to keep the "bounty" secret so that we can have it all for ourselves and no one else gets any, but that's NOT really the freegan lifestyle,Terminal. In fact, I would like to strongly encourage you to reconsider your stance on the "it's all for me, me, me attitude), as it so strogly relates to the idea of the love of money (or the things money can buy) being the root of all evil.
[QUOTE="Terminal Flatulence"] The final insult came at the end of the prog where the no income freegans had taken delivery of their 'new' campervan. No prices mentioned, a bad omission from C4 I think. [/QUOTE]
Why was this insulting to you? Does it often bother you that people drive "new" vehicles, or are you only offended when people use donations to buy vehicles? So what's so special about Roland and Sue, because there are literally thousands of NGO's out there, buying a lot more vechiles and a much higher price, than what Roland and Sue probably paid for that little camper van. If you have written these kinds of things to those other organisations, then please forgive my ignorance.
The second part of the above quote also suprised me. Does it often bother you that people you don't know don't tell you how much they paid for things they bought? How many people have you told about your own expenses?
How does eating out of bins help the starving people in the world?
Hi Albie, put simply a lot of the food we find in the bins has come from the developing world only to be thrown out in our over abundant and wasteful society that we live in and are resonsible for. 10% of the world consumes (and wastes) 90% of the world's resources, so there is not enough for some and too much for others. That is why some people starve. The less we waste, consume or purchase such food in this country, the less it will be demanded of and therefore supplied from the developing countries. Hence they will have more food and land for their own needs. It takes a bit of imagination and thought to want to see the bigger world picture though.
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How does handing out pamphlets do any good? How is that earning the right to use our health service and schools?
How does you posting on a forum like this do any good? It's easy to criticise isn't it? How do children "earn the right" to go to school in this country? We must have misunderstood something because we thought the health service in this country was available to anyone who was legally entitled to it, and it didn't matter whether you were rich or poor, black or white, Jewish, Muslim, Christian or atheist.
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That millionaire probably gives more to charity each year than they ever could in a life time.
We are not criticizing how much money the millionaire gives to charity. God bless him for whatever he gives. How much money someone gives is not really the issue being discussed.
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How are they promoting a better life? If we all decided to eat out of bins they would starve. I would get there before them and watch them shrivel and pray.
It seems like this hard attitude of wanting to get their first and watch people shrivel is what has caused the suffering in the world. We need a lot more empathy, love and understanding to make things better rather than worse. Greed breeds mean deeds.
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God provides? Tesco must be their God.
We are exposing the wrong doing of supermarkets, such as Tesco, and criticising them for their waste. They are not our God. We would be very happy if there was no more waste as this would mean more food for everyone, which is why we went on TV to expose this problem to bring about change.
This is Roland using Susan's login because we share the same email address. Well, Wifeswap has certainly produced a lot of controvesary on this forum.
We hope that in time people who are objecting to us can see the bigger principle that we all need to work on intelligently using what resources we do have.
We have thought nothing of recycling old houses, cars, furniture and other materials, so it makes sense that food that is perfectly edible and within the expiry date should be utilised if it is destined for landfill. I think that approximately 4 million tons of within date food is thrown into landfill in this country. It is shocking to know this as this is only one western country. God knows what the other rich countries throw out. There are at least 3 billion people on this earth who don't have a good, balanced diets as a result of the West's greed.
Hi Roland, I viewed the show the day it aired, and thought that both you and Susan came across quite well (Danny did, too). While I know how difficult it can be to both teach someone else to lead an alternative lifestyle, and to change up from a particular routine/schedule, I thought that you guys both did a good job with trying to tactfully get across your points, without being overly pushy (I was particularly impressed by Susan's willingness to put back the entire load that she found outside of one of the bins, out of consideration for the Aetons. As a fellow freegan, I know just how hard that can be!). And so I just wanted to tell you guys job well done. Even I feel inspired to make more of an effort to continue my freegan lifestyle/get the message out, as a result of watching the show. Keep up the good work!!!
Thank you Freeganised for pointing out that I need to pput my post into context.
I do not object to freeganism in any way and I agree that the amount of food that is wasted is deplorable. I also agree with charities who collect foodstuffs from supermarkets by agreement and distribute it to the poor.
The program was not just about Freeganism. The freegan couple brought up an issue they portrayed as being revolutionary and really crucial to their lives, namely that they were members of the Jesus Christians.
Thank you Freeganised for pointing out that I need to pput my post into context.
I do not object to freeganism in any way and I agree that the amount of food that is wasted is deplorable. I also agree with charities who collect foodstuffs from supermarkets by agreement and distribute it to the poor.
The program was not just about Freeganism. The freegan couple brought up an issue they portrayed as being revolutionary and really crucial to their lives, namely that they were members of the Jesus Christians.
Yes, this is a quote from the Bible. God has created the world and is angry at people who destroy it. Remember the Garden of Eden? Humans began in a wonderful garden and simply asked to look after it. Adam and Eve were the first freegans. How much we have strayed away from that, and look at the mess we have made to this world!
That verse "God will destroy those who destroy the earth" is indeed located in the Bible (New Testament).
I am a freegan myself, but I consider raiding bins etc. only an intermediary step.
I think all of us should really clear our minds from the money myth. We were born into a society where making money is our usual motivation for going to our working place, called "job". We are brain-washed into thinking that it's impossible for humankind to survive without making money. I think that is terribly wrong.
Resources as such still exist, without money. Money has not created any extra raw materials.
If we could at least CONSIDER the ideal of a society that is composed of communities that are not working for money, then I think we could make some headway. These would be communities whose members share their skills freely with each other, and don't put a MONOPOLY on earthly resources.
Because this is exactly what money does - it's an entry token to the resources of the planet that in fact belong to everyone equally.
Caesar (that is, human government) introduced money, and uses it to control the masses.
I don't subscribe to this, and that is one reason why I am a committed freegan.
And going back to my initial comment about bin raiding, in such a new society governed by love (and not by money) there will be no need to do any dumpster diving.
But what if the abolition of money as a currency did not change human nature? What is the alternative? Whether people work for money or beg for donations is of little consequence if they are materialistic and go out and buy motor homes and computers, both items cause damage to the environment. Houses , tents and caravans cause less damage. Does that mean God will destroy the freegans?
Dustin asked quite a few questions: But what if the abolition of money as a currency did not change human nature? What is the alternative? Whether people work for money or beg for donations is of little consequence if they are materialistic and go out and buy motor homes and computers, both items cause damage to the environment. Houses , tents and caravans cause less damage. Does that mean God will destroy the freegans?
We are not pushing for the abolition of money as a currency; we are pushing for a change in human nature. Two ways to do that are to try to change ourselves and to share our experiences with others.
Dustin then seems to be having unfair shots at Rols and Sue with the rest of what he says. He suggests that one is either working for money or begging for money. In fact, Rols and Sue are doing something that is neither. They work for free, and share what they have for free, but do offer people the opportunity to "donate" toward what they are doing, even if it is just a penny, to help pay for the paper on which their message is explained more fully. They are not a charity, and do not solicit donations for a charity. The donations are quite simply explained as a donation toward the cost of printing the material that is being handed to the person. What would we call it if the newsagents offered all of their newspapers, books, and magazines on the same term? Would it be begging? Or would it be a radical new approach to economics?
Dustin then suggests that no good has been accomplished because Rols and Sue are both "materialistic", buying motorhomes and computers. "Materialistic" means having an excessive regard for physical well-being. Do you seriously think that they represent that?
He suggests that houses, tents, and caravans cause less damage to the environment. But don't those items usually come with a car or two? And even the construction of a house involves a lot of damage to the environment.
As for whether or not God will destroy the freegans, maybe he will. Obviously there is no one who is not leaving some kind of footprint on the world. But I think the bigger question is whether or not Rols and Sue are moving in the right direction. If their contact with the Aytons led to them buying a nicer motorhome and a second-hand laptop for their son, then maybe the influence was a bad one. Would you agree?
Thanks for explaining that, Dustin. I think what Reino was referring to by "money myth" is the belief that money is the determinant of anyone's worth. It does not mean that they do not use money.
They would say, however, that in a perfect world people would not need money, and resources would be shared more or less equally. It's just that we don't yet live in such a world. So all they can do is make steps to move in that direction.
What would happen if everyone gave out leaflets and asked for donations ? Are there enough trees to sustain this ? If they are NOT a charity why do they not pay tax? Reino said Caeser introduced money to control the masses. What about giving to Caeser what is Caesers etc?
One gets the impression that you've already got an answer in mind, when asking these questions. If that is the case, then it could be more beneficial and efficient if you could just explain your position, and then we can respond to that.
