I have checked out C4's plan for Big Art. I have to say that I am very dissappointed. I don't understand why C4 is not allowing the community to choose the artist as well. Why does it have to be [CURATOR only inviting WORLD FAMOUS ARTISTS]. Yes, we are given an opportunity to select the location. However, like most of community-focused Public Art in the country, the people on the selection panel tend to use only the well-known artists, who are not from the community and have no emotional tie to the community. I would like to ask the producer to give me the reason why C4 is not involving the communities to select the artists and the idea. My husband is an artist moderately known in Kent and has a very good idea to regenerate our beloved town, Margate, Kent. Why can't he be involved? Why can't he give ideas and be commissioned for work? As long as I understand from C4's brief, he is only allowed to nominate the location. From there, it seems only CURATOR and WORLD FAMOUS ARTISTS can benefit from the program. Why not local communities and local artist?
I was going to ask a similar question. I was wondering what the selection process is for the artists taking part. Could you tell me more about how the artists are selected (I couldn't seem to find any information about this on the Big Art pages)
I have to agree with the other posts on this one. The trailers for this project make a big deal of it being a community led one yet if you're getting an existing curator to select 'famous' artists then it removes the whole project to just another exhibition, albeit a public one. Curators have their own agenda and often this isn't in harmony with what a public audience might want. When the curator makes his/her choices that leaves little room for public opinion. Like many so-called democratic processes you only get to choose from the best of a bad bunch.
Surely it would be better if any artist was allowed to make a pitch for the project and then these were filtered by regional collectives related to where the project would be based. So the community makes recommendations before the art world gets involved?
I think that the scheme sounds brilliant and have applied for it. And the fact that there are going to have famous artists executing the art projects should be a good thing - as it will the the local communities more drive to help out and produce a piece of work that they can be proud of, that is assuming that the local communities will be very much involved in the project? Thanks for giving all areas a chance to do something like this. Regards Beth
Hi, I myself am an up and coming artist, and when I saw this opportunity, I knew that I would have entered given the chance and so would many others. Then I found out your denying artists that would actually know something about the communities they are working in. You could be giving a huge opportunity to someone who really deserves it, and giving them the chance to put their foot upon the ladder. What is the point of using artists that are already on that ladder and have no relevance to your viewers anyway? I would have loved to have seen unknown artists from their own communities working their way through this project. It would be really inspiring to both non artistic viewers and artistic viewers, you have just wasted what could have been a really good idea.
OH AND ROY P NO OFFENCE, but you sound a little stupid with the plumbing comment and obviously have absolutely no idea about Art and Artists. Just because an artist is not well known doesn't make them any less qualified for the job.
As you obviously dont know this, I will have to explain that that is what a proposal or a pitch is for. Thats how you decide who are the non artists from the artists (In channel fours opinion of course), as it inevitably comes down to who ever looks at the proposals own personal taste, so your work could be astounding and they still might not like it. You being someone who obviously knows nothing on this subject doesn't understand that.
Anyway back on topic. With respect, surely communities are going to have completely different artistic tastes if any at all? So therefore an artist from that area is going to have a better idea than channel 4's curators.
Can't let you get away with this comment based on a single sentence of mine, PixieART :-)
>obviously have absolutely no >idea about Art and Artists
I'm a painter/graphic designer/illustrator, 4-years Art College in my teens. It's probably why I take the position I do! Anyway, it's only my *opinion*.
Im wary of anyone who starts a post with 'I am an up and coming artist'..... but the thing that really intersts me on this forum is how few people out there don't have an opinion on this thorny subject. Wiil this really happen and is the money for the project already spent or ring fenced. The deadline for submission of sites is very close now......I hope it does but it will be very empty a project if there isn't a fuller response from the wider public, don't you think?
Skymartial - I dont think you can really blame the public for not having an interest in this project, c4 dont seem to have done much to advertise it.
Are c4 'using' the arts to gain profile and ratings? Do you guys think this is commercialisation of the arts? Would really help my dissertation if you could give me some of your thoughts on this!!
Please could you tell me 1.Are Channel 4 funding ie paying for the work of art or do we have to raise the funds through grants etc. 2.We already have a well worked scheme/idea/planning in principle/artist/location/ community support but we can't find any funding for public art - as we are so far down the road does that mean we cannot apply/don't qualify?
I suppose the idea of getting a world famous artist involved is so that you can get the funding - it would be far more of a challenge if it was about local artists working with local communities - we've done all the grafting but its a waste of time because we can't get the funding - we are in Cornwall one of /if not the poorest counties in the county yet because we happen to be near PLynmouth which is actually across the water in Devon we always seem to fall between stools when it comes to funding.
The 'artists' who have already been selected will perform the function of pandering to the designs of 'others'. In other words they will just be the building contractors.
The curator and consultant who is advising Channel 4, completely misses the point of creating art works, as she is not herself a maker, more an administrator and academic.
Sculptors are the music makers and dream makers, so for those who will engage in the project, obviously have no qualms about their honesty of intent.
We have in the UK in recent years,a plethora of generally poor, lightweight, and fascile public art. I see only a small number which have resulted in the artist really fighting for his corner, and creating exciting intelligent works.
If channel 4 thinks that by instigating Big Art, the results will be truly great, then I can only add that it is Big Art with a capital 'F', similar to its links with the Turner Prize.
What concerns me most about Channel 4's Big Art, is that it is just entertainment.
The point of making bold statements particularly in public sculpture, is that it must have an enduring energy. It is the result of the sculptor creating the finest work possible. Sadly this is not on the agenda here, so the results are not of this nature.
What troubles me is that the results will be like yesterdays news.
Originally posted by fred1: Fred1 - we have tried to address each of your points below:
Please could you tell me 1.Are Channel 4 funding ie paying for the work of art or do we have to raise the funds through grants etc.
"Channel 4 are securing relevant funding for the work of art in each chosen site, communities do not have to worry about raising funds through grants."
2.We already have a well worked scheme/idea/planning in principle/artist/location/ community support but we can't find any funding for public art - as we are so far down the road does that mean we cannot apply/don't qualify?
"At this stage, Channel 4 are looking for site nominations only. Although we are interested in hearing the community's ideas for potential artists and artworks for the site, these will not be considered at this preliminary selection stage."
3. I suppose the idea of getting a world famous artist involved is so that you can get the funding - it would be far more of a challenge if it was about local artists working with local communities - we've done all the grafting but its a waste of time because we can't get the funding - we are in Cornwall one of /if not the poorest counties in the county yet because we happen to be near PLynmouth which is actually across the water in Devon we always seem to fall between stools when it comes to funding.
"Channel 4 has not finalised its list of artists. It will be up to the communities working with their curator to choose the artists. We also hope to explore the difficulties and challenges facing the world of public art as part of the programme, one of which of course is the issue of funding. Finally, we welcome your site nomination from Cornwall - remember the deadline is Friday December 9th!"
Originally posted by lerome: This initiative is pre-planned and decided upon.
Ch4 Big Art Project: "We have had 500 nominations from members of the public saying they would like some art for their communities."
The 'artists' who have already been selected will perform the function of pandering to the designs of 'others'. In other words they will just be the building contractors.
CH4 Big Art Project: "No artists have been selected."
The curator and consultant who is advising Channel 4, completely misses the point of creating art works, as she is not herself a maker, more an administrator and academic.
CH4 Big Art Project: "Curators can be skillful mediators between artist and client. They can also be valuable project managers and interpreters. We hope the project will explore the many ways people relate to art."
Sculptors are the music makers and dream makers, so for those who will engage in the project, obviously have no qualms about their honesty of intent.
CH4 Big Art Project: "The projects will be run by professional curators. The process will be documented by TV. The interests of the art and artists will be protected by the Trustees of the Big Art Trust."
We have in the UK in recent years,a plethora of generally poor, lightweight, and fascile public art. I see only a small number which have resulted in the artist really fighting for his corner, and creating exciting intelligent works.
Ch4 Big Art Project: "We hope that the project will examine and reflect the reasons why we have the public art we have in Britain and who influences it. We hope that the project will illustrate the immensely valuable role artists play and could play in society. Music and dreams are not luxuries."
If channel 4 thinks that by instigating Big Art, the results will be truly great, then I can only add that it is Big Art with a capital 'F', similar to its links with the Turner Prize.
CH4 Big Art Project: "We hope that the communities who submit nominations will take part in a process that has the potential to empower them and express their relationship with art.
No artists have been selected. It will be up to the communities who propose sites to select the artists. The role of the curator in each site will be to introduce the community to artists and work that they may not have heard about or seen yet, and to explore with the community what kind of art they may want to commission."
Originally posted by happy0615: I have checked out C4's plan for Big Art. I have to say that I am very dissappointed. I don't understand why C4 is not allowing the community to choose the artist as well. Why does it have to be [CURATOR only inviting WORLD FAMOUS ARTISTS]. Yes, we are given an opportunity to select the location. However, like most of community-focused Public Art in the country, the people on the selection panel tend to use only the well-known artists, who are not from the community and have no emotional tie to the community. I would like to ask the producer to give me the reason why C4 is not involving the communities to select the artists and the idea. My husband is an artist moderately known in Kent and has a very good idea to regenerate our beloved town, Margate, Kent. Why can't he be involved? Why can't he give ideas and be commissioned for work? As long as I understand from C4's brief, he is only allowed to nominate the location. From there, it seems only CURATOR and WORLD FAMOUS ARTISTS can benefit from the program. Why not local communities and local artist?
CH4 Big Art Project: "Artists will be selected by the community working with the curator who will introduce them to the work of artists they may not know. There is no pre-supposition that the artists will be famous. What we want is inspired art commissioned by the public. That much public art is commissioned on behalf of clients by curators is one of the reasons we have the public art we have in Britain. Our documentation and evaluation of that process may contribute to changing the process for the future. Or it may illustrate how well it works, when it works well ...
Channel 4's Big Art Project is a 2 year project where a chosen artist will work closely with a community in each of the 6 selected sites. The communities are central to the project and will be involved every step of the way, as their involvement and journey is the instigation and driving force behind the entire project. We hope the experience they gain will have a lasting impact long after the 2 years are up. So far we have had over 800 nominations from all over the UK suggesting sites for art.
Thank you for your response to my earlier contributions to this forum.
I wish to just add that the vast majority of 'Art Consultants' and 'Curators' complicate the process of creating public art. Why do they have to perform the role of introducing or representing artists?. This notion that artists cannot speak for themselves only applies to those who cannot bother to do so. Do we have curators and consultants representing architects, doctors, or engineers?
These art specialists like art critics have been described as fleas on the backs of artists. I can mention several major landmark projects, where these so called professionals have been responsible for uneccessary difficulties, and more importantly excessive cost in their fees to the project. Additionally when they were supposed to facilitate their services, they did not. Creating meaningful public art works demands all the strengths and courage of the maker. He has to be able to connect with those who commission him, work to a budget, deal with planners,contactors etc, cost the project, and above all produce the finest work he is capable of. It should be exhilerating and fun, but with the art consultants involved it is a burden, and they receive uneccessary quodos also. Often commissions come about through set predictable criteria, and budget, usually around the £20,000 plus mark. For this and it is mostly applies to sculptors, the budget has to include everything, concept designs,producing to full scale,delivery and erection to site, liasing with contractors, planners,architects,engineers,and the client. There is no mystery in this except the budgets that are compiled by the art consultants, advising the commissioning body. This results in many a sculptor struggling to create something within this meagre budget, and those completed in this way proliforate our landscape and cityscapes.
It should be for the artist to cost all this out and present with his reasonable profit margin, the final figure. A little business acumen, and some basic commercial experience and teaching at art schools, would go a long way in correcting this situation. Creating public art is not for the faint hearted,for the media and their negative stance has to be dealt with also. As public art commissions are few in the UK, there is a stampead to win them, always by some form of competition whose criteria demands the moon.
Public Art is a reflection of the depth of intelligence and insight, coming from the originator, the maker, it has nothing to do with public arts administrators.
Channel 4 Big Art is jumping into a serious area here, and it is I believe just for entertainment. Our EEC counterparts have not as far as I know, produced such a project, because the very inherant attitudes you are highlighting do not exist in Europe.
I believe that if we are selected it will create a masive change in our area which is really quite small and I hope that doesn't go against us. It is also a deprived area and it would be good to see the impact of public art on a community of which the majority aren't turned on by art.
I think that anything which does make people think and create debate has to be good particularly in a current climate where people don't neccesarily engage with their neighbours.
Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains.
Originally posted by creatives: As per my other message - have all the successful projects now been contacted?
I've not heard anything but would like to feedback a response (positive or negative) to the community who supported the bid
thanks
"Most of the successful projects have been contacted by Channel 4's Big Art Project, but we won't be making any final decisions until late March. We aim to notify all nominations when the final shortlist has been made."
I totally agree with your view on this one. This seems to be the current trend amongst the art world. I have recently stumbled upon a new and dynamic online art concept which embraces & ‘supports up and coming artists from all cultural backgrounds and styles of art, by featuring their work on the Malstores.com website & Art Gallery’ for free.
I particularly like the way in which the artist/s play an essential role on the site visual content. The site is combining the concept of advertising space with art. Artists as we all know pay a heavy price for their craft; they are continuously criticised and more often than not end up poor & unrecognised. In a world which is consumed with consumerism; it is refreshing to see a background distraction which reflects an old world of art. This contrast between graphical and non graphical art is very unique & interesting. The same theme of contrast runs through upon examining the concept of the struggling ar
