I remember a few years ago there were plans to make all European top flight divisions into maximum 18 team leagues. The chairmen moaned, saying they'd lose revenue from the then 22 team Premier League but eventually a compromise was reached with the current 20 teams. Now this has been suggested...
Personally, I think this is a disgraceful idea and I'm not entirely convinced it will happen. I don't think that the managers and players will really be up for it, certainly the fans here won't. I've also heard that it's trying to duplicate in some way the popularity of bringing the American Football to this country. Well, that's possibly the wrong move as, as far as I'm aware, that sport hasn't gained any more popularity here, just gained some fans wanting to go and watch a load of fat Americans rolling around and wrestling each other whilst churning up the Wembley pitch. Just freak show interest really, much the same as a bearded woman at a circus was in Victorian times.
I'm also not sure of the benefits and the fairness in some teams palying others 3 times a season. And, if the 5 venues outside this country are to be used, will they all be in the same country, or will they be in different ones, as suggested? does that mean that teams will have to fly thousands of miles part way through the season just to satisfy fans who live in those countries? Will clubs send their reserve sides out there?
To me, this is another move away from the regular lifeblood of the ordinary hard working fan and I'm not really sure if I'd like us to get promoted now if we have to enter this circus
I think it's an appalling idea. It's time the league and FA got tough with the endless greed of the top clubs. What exactly has English club football got to do with other countries anyway?
I think there will be a limited audience for it in America and Asia, (which is I'd guess what these clubs have in mind) but even having the World Cup failed to make any significant changes in the way Americans regard their sports.
As for Europe, what's the great attraction of Premiership clubs anyway? I can't see anyone in Paris getting particularly fired up about Bolton v Blackburn! The clubs with the international 'brand awareness' and the ones foriegners are really interested in (Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U and Chelsea) qualify for the Champions League every year, anyway.
I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Reading, Fulham, Blackburn, Bolton and Wigan etc lost money on such ventures.
These matches will be show matches and events to be seen at (at least initially), with the aim, of increasing brand awareness and merchandising. The English fans? Oh well, they just need to 'get with the program!'
Originally posted by ugetmi: I think it's an appalling idea. It's time the league and FA got tough with the endless greed of the top clubs. What exactly has English club football got to do with other countries anyway?
I wish that I had a fiver for everytime I have given my famous one hour lecture on the market economy and how it operates.
Capitalism is not dead (malheureusment) It just smells funny.
Originally posted by ugetmi: As for Europe, what's the great attraction of Premiership clubs anyway? I can't see anyone in Paris getting particularly fired up about Bolton v Blackburn! The clubs with the international 'brand awareness' and the ones foriegners are really interested in (Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U and Chelsea) qualify for the Champions League every year, anyway.
I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Reading, Fulham, Blackburn, Bolton and Wigan etc lost money on such ventures.
They're not trying to import it to Europe, but the Asia, Australia and the good ol' U S of A. They haven't even mentioned Europe.
And why should the money making, greed is good clubs/money making machines like United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea (the loosest sense of a big club) worry about teams like Bolton, Fulham, Wigan, Boro for anyway? as far as they're concerned, these clubs will be battling out relegation scraps and will never make the closed shop that is Champions League qualification anyway?
Originally posted by ugetmi: As for Europe, what's the great attraction of Premiership clubs anyway? I can't see anyone in Paris getting particularly fired up about Bolton v Blackburn! The clubs with the international 'brand awareness' and the ones foriegners are really interested in (Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U and Chelsea) qualify for the Champions League every year, anyway.
I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Reading, Fulham, Blackburn, Bolton and Wigan etc lost money on such ventures.
They're not trying to import it to Europe, but the Asia, Australia and the good ol' U S of A. They haven't even mentioned Europe.
And why should the money making, greed is good clubs/money making machines like United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea (the loosest sense of a big club) worry about teams like Bolton, Fulham, Wigan, Boro for anyway? as far as they're concerned, these clubs will be battling out relegation scraps and will never make the closed shop that is Champions League qualification anyway?
They haven't ruled out Europe as far as I've heard, but, yes, I did say that their main aim would be the US and Asia.
My point was that foriegners will be far more interested in the big four than the likes of Reading and Wigan.
So it's likely to be another case of something that's really in the interest of Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man U, plus possibly a few other fairly large and well-off clubs like Newcastle, Spurs, Everton and Aston Villa. Clubs like Reading, Fulham and Blackburn will probably agree to it, but they're not the ones who are going to make the big big money out of it.
The Premiership will become even more of a four horse race and, IMO, it won't be long before the number of relegated clubs is reduced to two or it becomes a closed league.
Perhaps the Football League should cut off all ties with the Premiership and proclaim the Championship as the true top division of England?
While the Premiership can go down the NFL route of franchise clubs (Bolton relocating to Miami perhaps? Portsmouth relocating to Tokio?) in a closed league.
It may be possible to see the English Premiership title race or the relegation of an English club decided in another country half way around the world.
I don't think that relegation or the title will ever be decided in one of those games, but it will certainly be influenced by them.
I've been reading the papers today and watching Sky Sports (who, unsurprisingly are licking their lips at the prospect of this) and most chairmen, under the influence of their foreign owners no doubt, are coming out in favour of the proposal. One of the Liverpool owners said as much when he talked about the globalisation of the sport, so no wonder they were so anxious to re-finance the club. No need to ask what the Glazer family's response will be to this.
All this goes to show that there is little or no conseideration for the normal, average fan in all this and it also shows just how much contempt we are held in. It has already been suggested that football should cut all ties with the Premier League and perhaps that is not such a bad idea. I'd hate the prospect of walking into a top flight ground now and I found Anfield to be over-rated, atmosphere-wise, when I was there earlier this season (sorry for all you Scousers on here! ) and I dread to think what The Emirates or Old Trafford is now like compared to when I was going to these places regularly in the early to mid-80's. Even Ferguson criticised Old Trafford for its lack of noise
You went to the Emirates in the 80's Andy? Thats a good trick if you know how to do it. Unless you mean the country. I wouldnt expect anything less coming from someone who supported spurs back then to be using that tired old comment though.
Only an American can talk about the globalisation of the sport. HELLO it already is global.
ugetmi the world cup in the US resulted in the MLS being created and there have been significant changes in the way football is viewed in the US. To say it made no difference is a bit stupid.
Andy there are a lot of American football fans over here even if you dont like the sport. It did make my skin crawl seeing the turf being turned up though prior to an important international too.
What amuses me the most about all this is that they seem to think that us fans would be placated by the fact that the clubs will make more money. How does that make us more happy? Trophies make us happy, cheaper tickets make us happy and i cant see this changing either of those two things. The comment about more money to spend on players....well yes but its all relative if all 22 have more money then it doesnt change anything except make the divide even bigger from those with global fan bases. We all know that the extra money is going to go straight into dividends to make profitable the recent takeovers financed by massive debt at United and Liverpool. Chelsea dont need the money and Arsenal dont spend it when we have it.
This sort of thing is what I expect FIFA to comment on immediately instead of the usual rubbish they throw at our clubs. Speak up when you are expected to FFS.
If they really want to do this though why the league why not pull out of the league cup and have a small cup competition with the top 32 clubs.
Originally posted by CaptVimes: You went to the Emirates in the 80's Andy?
Sorry, what I meant to say is that I went to arsenal in the 80's. A bit of an oops moment there, mate!!
I do appreciate that there may well be many American Football fans over here, but to stage a whole NFL programme on these shores would probably be unworkable. You may get a big crowd for the top game/s, but for the games involving the smaller teams (whoever they are)? I doubt it.
And a naive Sky viewer suggested yesterday that this will all be hunky dory if some of the revenue raised goes back to grass roots football in this country. There's as much liklihood of that happening as me running for US President.
And I agree that FIFA should now speak up about this whole idea. Surely the whole point of a domestic competition is to have games played domestically? And only an insular American would talk about globalisation, as if it isn't already. I heard one member of the Superbowl winners shout to a crowd "Hey, yeah, we're world champions!". I think that about says it all about the sport, the people who take part and the people who own these franchises.
Oh no, is english football about to become a franchise for rich foreign owners? Looking that way
I think the NFL are aiming to have a franchise in two or three european cities. On paper it could work and is the way the league is expanded in America as there is no promotion or relegation venues can apply for a franchise to be granted and the ones with the potential to generate the biggest revenues are granted when they are expanding. There is enough support to do that but the thing is there is no stadium here where they could hold it. One game a year maybe and thats a big maybe after the mess that was made this year. They really dont "get" that their most popular sports are are mostly a pleasant distraction while there isnt any football on.
As for the smaller teams comment they dont have smaller teams because as I said each place is given to someone with the ability to compete and they make sure that the team that finished bottom last year has the first choice of all the best young players coming out of college this year and new francises get a startup boost as well in that respect.
The whole thing is a media circus designed to bleed the maximum they can out of their "fans" and have no problem with moving old established teams oops sorry i mean franchises to another city hundreds of miles away because it wasnt quite filling the stadium or the rent was too high where they were. The fact that the PL wants to start to emulate these people sends a chill down my spine.
I agree about money going to grass roots level from this yea chance would be a fine thing.
As for the world champions comment erm yes I never have understood that. I have had it explained to me by a few Americans as to why they use world champions and world series for baseball but it just sounded like an embarrassed excuse to me.
This morning I heard a spokesman for the FA (sorry can't remember the name - I was driving so should have been paying attention to the road)
what he said in defence of this plan was: it will
1) Help England compete internationally
2) help English clubs win the Champions' League
Point 1) I can't see any way in which this will help the national team. How will playing show matches abroad help English players perform better? It's a nonsense when the Premiership is so full of international players.
Point 2) And? Is that now the be all and end all of English football? It helps the "Big 4" have a better chance of winning the Champions' League!
So what!
Is this why the top League of the oldest professional footballing nation in the world is going to be compromised as never before, just to make the big four even richer and add to their silverware?
IMO if this goes through FIFA should actually bar qualification to the Champions' League via Premiership honours on the grounds that the Premiership is no longer a domestic league (as it incorporates international matches), so it's highest placed teams should not qualify as domestic English representatives of club football.
In response to the last 2 comments, I have to agree and add my views also:
Capt, you obviously know something about "Gridiron", and I know barely anything, but one thing I do understand is this: we, over here, are not a franchise and, hopefully, never will do.
Ugetmi, I agree about helping the national team. What the person you heard was saying sounded like a very lame excuse for moving it over there. It's all about money, and always has been ever since this Sky inspired league started. It's now become a money making exercise, pure and simple.
I have a feeling though, that, at some point, UEFA or FIFA will actually step in and maybe their silence is deafening is because they are weighing up what they may or may not be able to do legally before issuing any kind of statement. Don't forget, we live in the era of "free trade", "human rights" and all the PC nonsense that goes with this. This is something we definitely haven't heard the last of
Originally posted by CaptVimes: You went to the Emirates in the 80's Andy? Thats a good trick if you know how to do it. Unless you mean the country. I wouldnt expect anything less coming from someone who supported spurs back then to be using that tired old comment though.
Only an American can talk about the globalisation of the sport. HELLO it already is global.
ugetmi the world cup in the US resulted in the MLS being created and there have been significant changes in the way football is viewed in the US. To say it made no difference is a bit stupid.
Andy there are a lot of American football fans over here even if you dont like the sport. It did make my skin crawl seeing the turf being turned up though prior to an important international too.
What amuses me the most about all this is that they seem to think that us fans would be placated by the fact that the clubs will make more money. How does that make us more happy? Trophies make us happy, cheaper tickets make us happy and i cant see this changing either of those two things. The comment about more money to spend on players....well yes but its all relative if all 22 have more money then it doesnt change anything except make the divide even bigger from those with global fan bases. We all know that the extra money is going to go straight into dividends to make profitable the recent takeovers financed by massive debt at United and Liverpool. Chelsea dont need the money and Arsenal dont spend it when we have it.
This sort of thing is what I expect FIFA to comment on immediately instead of the usual rubbish they throw at our clubs. Speak up when you are expected to FFS.
If they really want to do this though why the league why not pull out of the league cup and have a small cup competition with the top 32 clubs.
No need to be so rude
I did say 'no significant changes', after the disbanding of their last failed attempt to get football/soccer off the ground with the North American Soccer League, which featured the likes of George Best during its period from 1968 to 84; MLS was formed in the 90s.
However, MLS comprises of just 14 clubs! With average attendances of around 16,000.
I should imagine this compares very poorly against Baseball, American Football and even Ice Hockey.
This is in the whole of America!
The best average attendance for 2007 (according to Wikipedia) of any club in the US is 24,500 (Los Angeles Galaxy) so that puts the top US club at lower Premiership/upper Championship level attendance-wise - this is with Beckham turning out for them!
More Americans probably turn out for monster truck rallies and ten pin bowling competitions.
The odd thing about this is that as a Norwich supporter, for years I've been thinking that Norwich (given their attendances) should rightfully be looking to be a Premiership club - but now I'm not so sure.
As it is currrently, small(ish) clubs like Reading, Fulham, Middlesboro, Blackburn and Bolton will never finish in the top four, win the FA Cup or qualify fo the Champions' League. Whereas the Championship is quite competitive with no one really knowing who's going to win the division. Take Norwich, four months ago they were bottom with 6 points between them and the next club - certainties for relegation - yet now they're thinking of the play offs. That just wouldn't happen in the Premiership.
I'm not saying I wouldn't want Norwich to be promoted but it's a case of "Be careful what you wish for..."
I agree totally with you on the Championship being so competitive. we were staring relegation in the face at a similar time as Norwich, yet we are also looking for a play-off finish. It's crazy!
I must disagree with the Blackburn analogy though. I think a club like them are more than capable of winning a trophy, just seems unlikely they will break the top 4, although nothing is impossible, with Liverpool looking pretty vulnerable at the moment.
BTW, a good win for you yesterday, although the game was pretty scrappy. I think I saw goal of the season too. The way Gavin Rae finished off Jimmy's pass was incredible!!!!
) and I dread to think what The Emirates or Old Trafford is now like compared to when I was going to these places regularly in the early to mid-80's. Even Ferguson criticised Old Trafford for its lack of noise
