Hopefully Fiorentina, but I doubt it.

Juve in serie B a -17
Milan a -8 in A, Fiorentina -19 in A
Anche la Lazio si salva: -11 in A

Still no Europe?

That's even worse than we had before, -19 gives us little cahnce of staying in Serie A next year.

quote:

Originally posted by Mezz:
Still no Europe?

CL for Milan.

Ridiculous turnaround by the Italian football authorities. But can we now just get on and play football?

Juve also get a three match stadium ban, lazio and Fiorentina a two match ban and Milan one match.

So, our points deduction is now -19, whereas Lazio's is -11, a difference of 8.

Prior to the appeal, our deduction in Serie B was -12, whilst Lazio's was -7, a difference of 5.

Has there been any explanation as to why the gap between the deductions has increased?

Reinstatement with the same gap I can understand, but this seems to penalise us to a greater extent.

And I'm sure I read that our stadium ban is 3 games.

Youre right.. Fiorentina get 3 match ban.. Lazio 2...

Milan get into the preliminary stages of CL...

No doubt the sentences will be cut again on appeal... this is italy after all.

Farce.

If they were guilty, the minimum punishment was relegation. They were all found guilty as far as I'm aware.

The punishments handed out are a joke.

Juve merda should be rotting in C. And to think their directors have the cheek to complain!

Yes it has all become farcical now.
But i knew it would once the appeals went in

And it could get even more farcical. If Milan do decide to take the appeals process further and into the civil courts, we run into the interesting possibility - unlikely, I suspect, but a possibility nonetheless - of Milan being declared innocent.

In which case, if the higher appeal courts acquit them of any wrong-doing at all and order the reinstatment of all the lost points (which they might), the Italian FA would then have the rather embarassing task of stripping Inter of the title and re-awarding it to Milan...

I suspect that UEFA's decision to allow Milan to remain in the CL for the time being may not be unconnected with the need to take a view on how likely to succeed any appeal might be is - since if Milan are thrown out 'for a crime they didn't commit', they won't head off into the Los Angeles underground (à la the A-Team), but into a courtroom to demand compensation from UEFA for being wrongfully kicked out of a tournament they could reasonably expect to have made quite a bit of money from by progressing into the later stages.

I don't expect any of this to happen, but by making the decision they have before the appeals process is completely exhausted, the Italian FA have left some rather interesting avenues open, even if they're probably only hypothetical...

i was under the impression that FIFA and UEFA took a very dim view of anyone connected with football turning to the law courts over football matters.Hopefully theyll kick Milan out of europe and tell them just to take their punishment(as slight as it is)like men

quote:

Originally posted by Chuckie Black:
The punishments handed out are a joke.

Juve merda should be rotting in C. And to think their directors have the cheek to complain!

Here's the thing. If they had applied the letter of the law (two levels of relegation for attempting to fix a single game) like they did last summer (when Genoa effectively went from Serie A to Serie C1), they would have had a big problem. You can send Fiorentina, Lazio and Milan to Serie B, but what the hell do you do with Juve? We're talking about fixing TWO WHOLE SEASONS. Where do you send them? Non-league?

They had to take that into account. And the sad thing is that - with a Serie A without Juve, Lazio, Fiorentina and Milan - the financial damage to Italian football would have been enormous. The TV contract (which will be collective as of 2007) will be worth less, gate receipts will be worth less, there will be less interest all around. That would have really hurt many honest clubs like Atalanta, Livorno, Sampdoria, etc. In effect, they would have been penalized twice - once when screwed by the refs and once when screwed financially. And in some cases it could mean bankruptcy.

I don't think there was much of an alternative here... Any punishment has to take into account the effects on the rest of the league.

That's generally true, stevie, but there are a couple of complications here.

First, UEFA would have acted by now if the Italian system of appeals was unsatisfactory. So if Milan (or the others) go on with the process, then UEFA will live with it.

UEFA in particular also have the difficulty that if they were to act against (say) Milan for going through the civil courts, Milan might get a friendly MEP or two to get the EU involved - do UEFA *really* have the right to block someone's access to the legal process on pain of further punishment? The European Court of Justice has already smacked cosy UEFA-endorsed policy over the head with a large stick (Bosman), and UEFA may not want to risk this again.

Second, think G14... If Milan and Juve get really irritated with UEFA, the risk of the whole - 'actually, we don't like you, and you can take your Champions League and tin-pot UEFA cup and stick it' saga being revisited. And if the G14 did break away, the risk of TV money haemorraging away from UEFA would be far too great.

The situation would have to be truly extreme for a Milan vs UEFA case to appear in a court, though - it's in neither party's interest, and I daresay that if UEFA excluded Milan only for them to be completely exonerated by an appeal (implausible), some compenstating deal would be quietly arrived at in a smoke-filled room somewhere...

quote:

If they were guilty, the minimum punishment was relegation. They were all found guilty as far as I'm aware. Roll Eyes

Wait, what exactly were Milan found guilty of. What's really a farce is that in that country, you do not need any hard evidence whatsoever to convict, you need only to be able to read between the lines of phone conversations.

The European Court will rightfully rule in favor of a team that could stand to lose millions of pounds and long-term affects to their fan base on the basis of no hard evidence whatsoever, if it ever comes to that.

quote:

Originally posted by zio:

quote:

Originally posted by Chuckie Black:
The punishments handed out are a joke.

Juve merda should be rotting in C. And to think their directors have the cheek to complain!

They had to take that into account. And the sad thing is that - with a Serie A without Juve, Lazio, Fiorentina and Milan - the financial damage to Italian football would have been enormous. The TV contract (which will be collective as of 2007) will be worth less, gate receipts will be worth less, there will be less interest all around. That would have really hurt many honest clubs like Atalanta, Livorno, Sampdoria, etc. In effect, they would have been penalized twice - once when screwed by the refs and once when screwed financially. And in some cases it could mean bankruptcy.

I don't think there was much of an alternative here... Any punishment has to take into account the effects on the rest of the league.

But what they haven't taken into account is the credibility of Italian football - the authorities had the chance to "clean everything up" (as they promised)... and they didn’t!

You "clean everything up" by punishing the individuals responsible. Except for Carraro (still don't understand how he got off) I think they managed to do that. The heart of the problem Pairetto-Moggi-Giraudo-Mazzini-De Santis etc. is largely out of the game.