Dave,

Although you're saying that the England team with Fenwick et al was pretty ropey, they also had the likes of Linekar, Beardsley, Hoddle and Barnes, no mugs that lot.

Somebody else was stating the Toni 'goal' that was 'onside'. I'm sure the goal that I saw was offside.

quote:

Originally posted by lee:
Dave,



Somebody else was stating the Toni 'goal' that was 'onside'. I'm sure the goal that I saw was offside.

under the new offside rules i would say Toni was most definately onside

Not saying that the 1986 side was ropey (although they were in the first two games), rather that some of the spin generated since tended to obscure the facts that:

a) The 86 England side weren't world beaters simply denied by an act of cheating, an act of brilliance and a the misfortune of a John Barnes cross that was about 20 cms too long for Lineker to reach

and

b)The 1986 Argentine side didn't have to be quite as brilliant as some now suggest to beat England. In fact, they were simply a decent side with one utterly outstanding player who was probably the difference for them between a good campaign and winning the tournament.

John Barnes, by the way, made just one appearance in the 86 finals, coming on for the last 15 minutes or so of the Argentina game.

John Barnes had one moment of sublime skill against Brazil, and dined out on that moment ever after. He, much like Lampard now, never seemed to recreate the magic he could show in the English league on the international stage.

From what I recall of 1986, the English team promised much, but delivered very little. A draw against Morocco (I think), a loss to Portugal and then a Gary Lineker win against Poland enabled us to scrape through in second place (behind Morocco?)

A comfortable win against Paraguay and then Argentina, where we were beaten by the skill of one man, Maradona. The Hand of God gave us the excuse that we were unfortunate to go out (as, in 1990, the Gascoigne booking, in 1998, the Beckham sending off, in 2002 the lucky lob and 2006, Ronaldo). The English press will always find a scapegoat, normally Johnny Foreigner when it always boils down to the harsh fact that we just aren't good enough.

In my lifetime, the best English team were the 1970 team, with the 1966 team just behind. Next best, IMO, were the 1982 team.

quote:

Originally posted by Curva Fiesole:
The Hand of God gave us the excuse that we were unfortunate to go out (as, in 1990, the Gascoigne booking, in 1998, the Beckham sending off, in 2002 the lucky lob and 2006, Ronaldo). The English press will always find a scapegoat, normally Johnny Foreigner when it always boils down to the harsh fact that we just aren't good enough.

I wasn't born in 1986, so I can't comment on the whole tournament as a whole.
But surely the Maradona 'scapegoat' incident is slightly different from the others, and England have a right to feel slightly hard done by over that one?

I don't think that Gazza's booking was blamed in 1990. IIRC, it was a mixture of cursing Paul Parker's bad luck for wild deflection off him (which he couldn't have helped) for the German goal and then cursing the lottery of penalties.

England could feel hard done by with the 1986 result, but since Football didn't become the offical religion of England until the creation of the Premiership, there was slightly less of a 'we were robbed of our rightful destiny.' There was also a slightly tasteless & xenophobic 'Well, you may have beaten us at football, but we thrashed you when it really mattered in the Falklands' aspect to it all as well...

quote:

Originally posted by italia:
Is this italian team the worst team to ever win the world cup ?

I'm a huge italian fan but france were better than us and I would love italy to play football like that.

Does any one agree or even care ?

France were the better team in the final and if there was going to be a winner it was France who were going to get it until Zidane's moment of madness. As a neutral it was disappointing that from half time onwards Italy basically defended there way to a draw in the final and then you could argue they walked off with the trophy by default through the lottery that is penalties. In the tournament Italy had excellent performers in defensive positions with Cannavaro, Grosso, Buffon, Gattuso alongside Pirlo but weren't great going forward and arguably Italy had the worst attacking players to ever win the world cup. In all it was a poor world cup with no great teams in it.

Jealousy rearing it's ugly head? Gilardino, Toni, ADP, Totti and Pirlo are quite good attacking players.

Won fair and square.

And I would differ that Turkey in 2002 were better than Portugal 2006. Portugal was also in the Euro 2004 Final, and have a good coach in Scolari.

I don't think anyone can begrudge Italy walking away with the trophy after "the lottery that is penalties". I don't recall anyone saying Brazil never really won it properly in 94.

quote:

Originally posted by Doo Wop:
I don't think anyone can begrudge Italy walking away with the trophy after "the lottery that is penalties". I don't recall anyone saying Brazil never really won it properly in 94.

of course not-its Brazil!Peoples champs,everyones favourite other team,carefree samba soccer blah,blah,blah etcetcetc

Surprised nobody has thrown West Germany '74 into the mix. Losing to DDR, stumbling through against us 4-2 and being comprehensively outplayed in the final certainly doesn't rank them amongst the likes of Brazil 1970.