I say this in light of the fierce criticism directed at the Wales v England match in Cardiff earlier today. It then got me thinking...most matches (not just England's) are of this nature.

Anyone care to manifest something of an answer? Prizes go to the best responses.

Because the players care more about not getting injured and playing for their clubs so they can make money and the nature of many games means a win isn't strictly important and because if you stick together a different bunch of players often not of equal ability every few months they're hardly going to gell into a good team that can play as well as club teams.

Fear of losing? The league system of qualifying? So many points etc... we dont need to kill ourselves against Team X therefore lets not risk getting injured... Managers fiddling with teams against so called minnows? Lack of co-hesion? No more pride in playing for your country its money that matters?

Dunno Bracey... why are international tournament qualifiers usually such boring affairs?

quote:

Originally posted by ®osa:
Because the players care more about not getting injured and playing for their clubs so they can make money and the nature of many games means a win isn't strictly important and because if you stick together a different bunch of players often not of equal ability every few months they're hardly going to gell into a good team that can play as well as club teams.

I disagree there Rosa take a look at Owen I swear he loves England more than Liverpool Real and his fifth choice club Newcastle put together.When Sven was at Lazio we lost many points for sitting on 1-0 leads it`s all been said before really.Personally I couldn`t get excited about a tournament that comes round once every four years last for a few weeks and is more a money machine intent on developing unwanted stadiums around the world.

1966 that`s history! 1990 the worst final on record,94 was rubbish too.France was good but last tourny was just the money making rubbish I was talking about.Italia were robbed

I was mkaing a generalisation, there are exceptions. International torunmanets are hyped up and then normally never that great. That said i'm 17 so haven't seen that many.

Who cares for internationals anyway...

To support Totti and other Merda...

FORZA JUVE

it is my only country on Curva Scirea...

I like the tournaments themselves but perhaps the bigger sides tend to rather go through the motions in the qualifiers. Look at England's group - they've got to finish above Poland and Austria to qualify automatically! Wow, that's rock hard. Some groups can be tricky of course but rarely so tricky as to be wildly exciting. The qualifiers suck balls.

quote:

1966 that`s history! 1990 the worst final on record,94 was rubbish too.France was good but last tourny was just the money making rubbish I was talking about.Italia were robbed

It gives me some pleasure to live near the stadium where that game took place. Italy are always robbed. Playing complete and utter sh1te rarely appears to contribute to their downfalls, oddly enough.

quote:

Originally posted by drughi:
Who cares for internationals anyway...

To support Totti and other Merda...

FORZA JUVE

it is my only country on Curva Scirea...

What a pirla

But typical of so many Italian people.

Total lack of national identity and unity beyond a bowl of pasta asciutta

Total lack of National identity????!!!!!

England is only a country by name united under Alfred to thwart Viking invasion.Nothumbria has nothing in common with Wessex as has Cumbria anything to do with Kent England is made up of Angles Saxons Jutes Friesians and god knows what else and only any good at football from the sheer number of people to choose from

Scotland as you know is torn apart by identity isssues all Scots are descended from Irish.The original inhabitants were Picts as you know when it was called Caledonia not Scotland. You have fans singing "God Save The Queen" one week only to sing Scottish songs taking the p**s out of the English the next and Irish republican songs.

As for Wales a recent friendly was the very essence of Wales where Swansea fans sang songs about Cardiff City and went on record saying they can`t support the Welsh team and would shout for England in Cardiff.The Northern Welsh still maintain the Southerners are different from them while the Southerners call them scousers.

Britain as tribal as you like!


With you all the way Drughi!(for once)

I ended up watching the Scotland v Italy game in the company of an Italian yesterday afternoon, and he totally didn't give a flying fook about the game/result.

He's lived over here for a few years now, but he said he wasn't really bothered about them when he still lived in Milan. All he cares about is Inter.

I find this a bit strange. I've often found that people who are living outside their home country become that bit more patriotic, but not the Italians...

Thanks for your responses thus far, it's set up a good discussion.

Incidentally, BBC Radio 5 commentary said that there were only 400 travelling fans. This is pathetic given Italian football's stature in the international game. To add to this, many were British-based Italian fans. I know that the Juve London-based branch got an allocation. I'd have gone if I'd have been home even though I support Sweden.

Answer this one though - how many Italians would jump on the bandwagon if they won the World Cup?

ALL of them

Are you sure...

I support France

It is something like Juve squad...

Italy won WC only once ( dont count titles before War II ) and 8 out of 11 players were from Juve...

Others like ROI and Bonyek were in semifinals...I think...

I dont give a f...for Azzuri...

To support Totti and co...

I like Lippi but to prefer Totti ahead of Ale is out of mind...

I mean who is Totti, disgrace for whole Italy and player who battle vs relegation...

And Romanisti.. Juve saved you last season...not Juve, but Moggi merda...

We should have let you play in Serie B this season...

Say thanks for point vs Lazio and win in Bergamo...

But I suppose we have to take care about our nursery side...

ALLEZ LES BLEUS...

And Interjambo dont talk about things you dont understand...

Unity...did you know what Scottish fans sing when England lost vs Romania on EURO 2000...

GOD SAVE ROMANIA...yeah, they were United...

I saw few Chelsea Head Hunters in France during WC...they simply said...we would like Beckham for just one hour...there would be no teenage girl who would scream about him...

You have your club...and country is for other things...

To see Berlusconi celebrates anything would be shame for me...

International matches are generally boring whatever the competition, in my opinion. The past two major tournaments have been disappointing, the qualifiers don't produce enough big games to be interesting, and the friendlies are a joke.

I enjoy international tournaments. Just thinking of some of the memories gives me goosebumps. I'm a football fan, the thought of three matches a day for a month gets the thumbs up.

I don't take much interest in support my national team though. I don't watch friendlies and pay little attention to qualifiers. I watch our games in the WC and EC though.

I don't get the same feeling as i do supporting Everton. I'd much prefer Everton to win the league than England win the WC.

Then theres the question of comprimising your club alliegance. I can't bring myself to celebrate goals from Owen and Gerrard. Maybe it's my ignorance but i can't.

As a foot note i must add that our football association is pathetic and embarrassing (pretty much like our government). And our media become unbearable when England play. Both these things are a major turn off concerning the national team.

I haven't watched an England game since Euro 2004 where we got mugged by France.
I find the whole International scene pretty tedious at the moment. I don't even bother reading about it any more. I don't give a shit about that strutting peacock, David Beckham and I care even less about Wayne Rooney.
I was happier about Ukraine qualifying than I was about England's win. I think a lot of it is down to media fatigue.

I am a patriotic girl at heart though and will always support England at a tournement.

Tournament situations are fun. It's just the qualifying that is painful viewing. Maybe it's the thought of having to wait three months to rectify a bad result that averts people.

I think it's good that people support their country but the antics of w*nkers with St. George flags attached to their cars was all a bit too much last summer. These people are merely plastic in their patriotism and jump on the bandwagon when these events come about. Truly patriotic people have a deep feeling attributed to their country and don't exhibit it in daft ways when sport is its catalyst.

If England win the Ashes, this will be all too apparent; people will have been cricket fans for "years" and waited "all their lives for this moment" when in reality they just got a kick out of winning in close circumstances at Edgbaston last month. No doubt the media and the public will berate the Australians with the attire of convicts.

Have you noticed that the drivers of Vauxhall Corsas (most notably) seem to have retrieved their Cross of St George flags from wherever they threw them last year, and are flying them with pride again? And is it any coincidence that they started appearing on about day 3 of the fourth test??

Anyway, I can't help thinking that there are three reasons for the tedium. First, as we've seen, not every football fan is as keen on their national side as they are on their club.

Second is that there's now so much football on the TV (Sky are showing that massive clash between Aldershot and Crawley Town later today)that internationals aren't quite as special.

Turn the TV on, discover that there's nothing interesting, go to Sky; find football. Spend five minutes thinking 'who, in the name of God, are the side in the black shirts with pink hoops?' while trying to work out the three letter abbreviation of the team's name on the score box in the top corner of the screen, but can't be bothered to turn over since there's nothing better on, and the football is at least football.

Get to international day, after massive (and usually crass) TV build up, massive (and usually crass *and* xenophobic) newspaper coverage and watching four games of footy already that week. Game is a bit dull. Stuff the fact that it's England playing, it's still dull.

Usual thing - Ferdinand spends 30 minutes trying to work out where he is; Lampard or Gerrard are a little out of sorts by their standards; Joe Cole is out of his depth. Beckham and Rooney are the only ones who show any signs of urgency and Owen is standing there waiting for someone to hoof the ball up to him, getting it to him over the head of the 6 ft 4 striker who'll cut out all but one ball that game. Any surprise that you think 'Dull, dull, dull?'

And we know it won't get any better. We know that Sven will give Owen Hargreaves a chance to demonstrate that neither of them has any idea where Hargreaves' best position is and generate a couple of random subsitutions so that England lose their shape and let the opposition back into it, but the opposition will (invariably) not be good enough to make anything of it. They might sneak a draw out of all the tedium, but...

Finally, the relatively uncompetitive groups that we see today (proliferation of European nations post 1991) means that 50-60% of the matches are pretty meaningless as long as the bigger sides go through the motions in a vaguely sensible fahion, 30-40% are a little more taxing and thus potentially interesting if the underdog perfoms above expectations (or the favourites underperform), leaving only 10-20% that actually matter. The days of having three or four teams who were in with a chance (slight or otherwise) of qualifying for the finals have gone, and so have the majority of interesting qualifiers.

quote:

Originally posted by .Dave.:
Finally, the relatively uncompetitive groups that we see today (proliferation of European nations post 1991) means that 50-60% of the matches are pretty meaningless as long as the bigger sides go through the motions in a vaguely sensible fahion, 30-40% are a little more taxing and thus potentially interesting if the underdog perfoms above expectations (or the favourites underperform), leaving only 10-20% that actually matter. The days of having three or four teams who were in with a chance (slight or otherwise) of qualifying for the finals have gone, and so have the majority of interesting qualifiers.

* delurks *

How would you feel about turning the qualifying stages into a cup contest instead of a league (i.e. winner goes through, losers are out)? Each pair play home and away. Almost every game would matter, and there'd be shocks and surprises and heroic runs from small teams.

The start of the European Cup seemed more interesting when it worked this way, before it turned into the Champion's League group stages.

I think the game's authorities would resist this because of the risk of losing money, but let's talk about what we want for a moment.

Forza Viola