Sky Sports are having a field day. They've buried Italian football.
Its so funny, Richard Keys is having the time of his life.
What about Niall Quinn and his dodgy comments about Italian teams regarding the Matrix's elbow and Nedved's red card: "you're glad their out, you don't want to see them up at the top of the Champions League when you see things like that" - Keys adds " I think you speak for a lot of people with those comments".
They seem to have forgot that Nedved is not Italian.
Italy is ranked a "poor 3rd" maybe even 4th behind the French according to Quinn - even though they had the most teams in the quarters.
I only care about Inter, not Italian football, but Sky were hitting below the belt. It was rather desperate.
Originally posted by Chuckie Black: Sky Sports are having a field day. They've buried Italian football.
Its so funny, Richard Keys is having the time of his life.
What about Niall Quinn and his dodgy comments about Italian teams regarding the Matrix's elbow and Nedved's red card: "you're glad their out, you don't want to see them up at the top of the Champions League when you see things like that" - Keys adds " I think you speak for a lot of people with those comments".
They seem to have forgot that Nedved is not Italian.
Italy is ranked a "poor 3rd" maybe even 4th behind the French according to Quinn - even though they had the most teams in the quarters.
I only care about Inter, not Italian football, but Sky were hitting below the belt. It was rather desperate.
Matrix was well out of order as we discussed this morning Chuckie.As for the "state" of Italian football then lets just remember a couple of facts.
a.There's only one team from the mighty talked up premiership in the semis, which is errrr..the same as the "falling by the wayside" Siere A
b The point where Keys was gloating about players going to Spain or England in preference to Italy .Anybody who knows anything about finance will tell you that the income tax set up in Spain is much more favourable .And in the Prem at the moment the wages are far higher for average players than elsewhere
Originally posted by Chuckie Black: What about Niall Quinn and his dodgy comments about Italian teams regarding the Matrix's elbow and Nedved's red card: "you're glad their out, you don't want to see them up at the top of the Champions League when you see things like that" - Keys adds " I think you speak for a lot of people with those comments".
They seem to have forgot that Nedved is not Italian.
But from what you've told us, at no point did they say anything about Italians as such, simply 'Italian teams', as you stated.
Maybe they did...didn't watch it...I'm only going from what you've said in your poorly-written post.
Yes, my post was poorly-written. Thank you for pointing that out.
When Quinn said "you're glad they're out" he was talking about Italian teams. I should of added that he talked about both these incidents being of an "Italian mentality" also.
Must be a West Brit mentality as the usually excellent Johnny Giles on RTE couldnt resist having a kick at the Italian League either. Everyone knows Juve were poor over the two matches, but the attitude from Giles and Ray Houghton.. was ridiculous. "The Italian League must be rubbish if Juventus are leading it by 9 points." (to paraphrase)
League, Johnny, League. Its not a knockout competition therefore run over a period of months The Juventus of a few months ago were a different team from the Juve of last night. Obviously the RTE studio team can only pick up english teams with their bent coathanger, as that's all they ever watch.
bias from english commentators,imagine that. It certainly isnt unusual as any Scot,Welshman or Northern Irishman will tell you.As this is a world cup year we're already preparing for the horror of watching "balanced" coverage on the BBC where lazy overpaid pundits will show their utter ignorance of the world game;Argentina will be "ever cynical"(totally ignoring any magnificent football from the like of Messi),Brazil will be "a joy to behold"(totally ignoring opposing forwards having lumps kicked out of them),the Germans will be "ruthlessly efficient"(totally ignoring ineptitude that makes them look like footballing keystone cops) and of course the African qualifiers will be "naive"(totally ignoring cynical defending that will make your hair stand on end). In any games with no obvious english connections there will be no end of obscure premiership references before they finally get bored even with that and just start talking about England.ITV will be as bad if not worse,as will Sky. What i think is sad is that there are probably no end of Englishmen out there who would like to get decent coverage of the whole range of the WC or other tournaments but the broadcasters make a crass assumption that they would be interested in their national side only. To go back to the original posting,the commentators remarks following a quarter finals where there were 3 italian teams present compared with 2 from spain and one each from england,france and portugal just show off his own stupidity and his comments regarding how bad serie A must be if Juve are leading it show how utterly uninformed he is
Originally posted by Chuckie Black: Yes, my post was poorly-written. Thank you for pointing that out.
When Quinn said "you're glad they're out" he was talking about Italian teams. I should of added that he talked about both these incidents being of an "Italian mentality" also.
OK, so still, there's no reason to think they "forgot" Nedved isn't Italian - at no point did they mention that he was Italian.
They simply pointed out he had an Italian mentality, which is to be expected after playing in Italy for the best part of a decade.
Usually the commentators' ignorance winds me up too, but you all seem to be going a bit OTT at the moment.
And for God's sake, if you haven't seen Serie A this season, you see Juve in those two games and then learn they're top of the league, it's inevitable that you're going to think Serie A is crap. What else do you expect?
Originally posted by Chuckie Black: Yes, my post was poorly-written. Thank you for pointing that out.
When Quinn said "you're glad they're out" he was talking about Italian teams. I should of added that he talked about both these incidents being of an "Italian mentality" also.
Originally posted by steviemacd: bias from english commentators,imagine that. It certainly isnt unusual as any Scot,Welshman or Northern Irishman will tell you.
I don't know that people are necessarily being OTT, Michael. It's simply the fact that the increasingly swivel-eyed punditry that passes of ignorant stereotyping as deep insight that makes the Sky Sports subscription worth its weight in gold has reached potty levels.
Many of the pundits seem to have a constant issue with Italian football, which I suspect is based on some bizarre insecurity about the 'product' that is English football.
They bang on about 'Italian mentality', seemingly in the belief that all Italian football is cynical, dirty, one-dimensioal stuff, believing that one of the pundits' heroes, Claudio Ranieri, was the son of a pasta restraunter from Walsall, who, by the application of good old British pluck forged a career for himself in football, even if he never managed to master the English language (in common with many people originating from Walsall).
Ranieri, according to this parallel belief system, despite the foreign name, displayed all the best aspects of English football (after all, Sir Alf set the standards for bizarre substitutions with his changes in the 1970 World Cup quarter finals), and can be contrasted proudly with those cynical, cheating Italians who never win anything.
The same can be said of Ranieri's master-signing, Gianfranco Zola, the son of an ice-cream manufacturer from Derby, who after years spent in the Farmfoods Freezer Fare (Peak District) League, was signed by Ranieri in his time at Chelsea. All the skills picked up in the Farmfoods league burst to the fore, shocking the ever-cynical, boring, Italians into selecting Zola for the national side (thanks to his granny's passport), since he brought a level of ball control, vision and passing previously unseen in Italian football, which could never develop a player of such talent.
They've not yet managed to ascertain the origins of another of their heroes, a chap called Vialli (although they think his dad ran a restaurant in Toxteth, he always laughs gently when they put this suggestion to him), and as for Ruud Gullit...
If Italian commentators applied the same sort of stereotypical observations to English football, the pundits would be utterly, utterly outraged. Not wishing to be cyncial, but the dark anti-Italian hatred is usually pedalled by the pundits who were never good enough to be considered for Serie A sides.
So it strikes me that while it's very true that none of the three teams exactly covered themselves with glory (even Milan) this round, the only thing OTT is the punditry displayed by Sky Sports - which certainly isn't worth watching, or worth the fee Murdoch charges.
Originally posted by Chuckie Black: Sky Sports are having a field day. They've buried Italian football.
Its so funny, Richard Keys is having the time of his life.
What about Niall Quinn and his dodgy comments about Italian teams regarding the Matrix's elbow and Nedved's red card: "you're glad their out, you don't want to see them up at the top of the Champions League when you see things like that" - Keys adds " I think you speak for a lot of people with those comments".
They seem to have forgot that Nedved is not Italian.
Italy is ranked a "poor 3rd" maybe even 4th behind the French according to Quinn - even though they had the most teams in the quarters.
I only care about Inter, not Italian football, but Sky were hitting below the belt. It was rather desperate.
The comment that annoyed me was "well thats Juventus out and Inter as well and Milan also playing poorly, do you think Italian football is in decline?" all said with that smug smile. Has he got the memory of a goldfish or something? because Man Utd went out with a wimper, as did liverfool and then Chelsea(who were dominating the premiership). The only team playing well is Arsenal - and they're fighting for fourth place!
Oh, and BTW Milan scored the most goals in the quarters, so they must have played well - after had an english team done that it would have been a remarkable comeback
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shevchenko: The only team playing well is Arsenal - and they're fighting for fourth place!QUOTE]
and let's not forget as the commentators on RAI Radio Uno were quick to remind everybody the Arsenal team playing at the Delle Alpi did not contain one Englishman! However, this wasn't held as a criticism but an observation. The RAI team couldn't stop themselves short from heaping Alpine amounts of praise on Wenger and Arsenal. The hostility, bigotry and jingoism of Sky Sports, ITV and BBC commentary is astonishing at times.
Not wishing to be cyncial, but the dark anti-Italian hatred is usually pedalled by the pundits who were never good enough to be considered for Serie A sides.
Isn't this a bit of a weird point? I mean, it's not like there's many players playing in the English leagues in the 1980s or even now that are ever considered seriously or signed by Italian teams is it? I can't think of that many - Wilkins, Hately, Platt, Rush, Ince no doubt a few more but not many over the space of about two/three decades. Most of them seem to last about two minutes before being shipped back (Lee Sharpe, Des Walker, Robbie Keane). To be honest I can't really imagine players like Houghton or Quinn ever really contemplating or wanting to play in Italy. I see Sky Sports in the pub now and then so that's about my limit of it, but I can't imagine if they are anti-Italian it's for that reason.
I never really see Sky, I don't mind the BBC coverage really, although there are a few who are k**bends, Garth Crooks, gets on my nerves. Radio 5 is good I think. ITV is always a bit naff, snob or whatever but much like the channel in general, it's always so sensationalist and just rather annoying. It's always funny at the World Cup, I think the two channels show big games at the same time and the BBC always wipes the board in ratings.
What is the Italian media like in general, anyone? Do they make much of this supposed rivalry between the three big leagues? Would any of the pundits have swipes at Spanish or English clubs?
This nonsense is always spouted by the English media ie Sky/ITV/BBC when Italian teams falter in competitions. Most Brit-Italians (myself included) that I know have always noticed this underlying dislike for Italian football when watching club sides or the National team on TV over here. The commentary at times is quite simply pathetic and jingoistic, it always has been. I have no problems with English commentators preferring an English team, but its always overboard. Last weeks Juve game and the Andy Gray comments during the Chelsea-Barca game are cases in point. If Totti goes down easily he's a cheating "Eye-Tie", if Henry does it, it's "cute". I watch RAI and Sky Italia when possible and of course they want Italian sides to do well, but it never reaches the depths of ignorance spouted by Motson and Co. Also Quinns comments verge on racism, sure what Nedved and Matrix did were wrong, but lets not go overboard, has an English team not had players sent off before! Ultimately it all boils down to jealousy, in their heart of hearts they know Serie A and La Liga are both better than the Premiership, a league that was spectacular at one point but has been boring beyond belief for the last 2 seasons. I don't about other Italians in the UK, but although I'm an Inter fan, I'd rather Juve and Milan did well in Europe especially against English sides. I think this feeling stems from comments like we heards last night. If it comes down to Milan-Arsenal, its Milan all the way for me.
Can't seem to edit my post, but Italian commentators like Bruno Pizzul or Fabio Caressa while wanting Italy to do well, would never take swipes at other leagues, they have something called respect for other teams and dignity when winning or losing.
I haven't got Sky so wouldn't be able to comment on what was said there last night, but I've always sensed atleast a slight anti-Italian mentality on the BBC and ITV. I'm sure we all remember ITV's advert for the Real Madrid - Juventus game in 2003. It contained nothing but Real Madrid players, and then when the programme started Des Lynam welcomed everyone by saying "I suppose we're all supporting Real Madrid tonight". I'd guess he said that because he didn't want an all-Italian final as Milan and Inter was the other semi-final.
The coverage on Five Live of the Juventus - Liverpool game from last season sticks in my mind as well. Jonathan Pearce, Alan Green and Mark Lawrenson (All tossers) were doing the coverage and I don't think i'd be going too far by suggesting that some of their comments were bordering on racist. If an Italian pundit said similar things about English football, I'm sure those same 3 muppets would be outraged. Although I will add in the absence of those 3 their coverage last night was just about right.
It's a shame but this hostillity has brimmed over into the best daytime radio show on the airwaves..Talksports Hawksbee and Jacobs pm show.Whilst these guys are funny ,knowledgeable ( as opposed to the plastic Spaniard Paul Breen Turner)I rather think they get a little jingoistic at times On Wednesday afternoon Andy Jacobs said words to the effect thet "I was flicking in betweeen both games and I decided that Italian football is pants..." Errr...just a minute Andy, just how many English teams made it to the last eight ? And at that time of comment there was still a chance that the beloved worshippped premiership representitives weren't guarenteed qualification and the hated despised Eyeties ALREADY had one team through to the semis and one still with a chance . The results are history now but no doubt the British media will carry on it's courtship of Barca in the tie against Milan. I for one hope that Milan thrash the living daylights out of Barca in true "Italian" style (whatever they percieve that to be) and do the same in the final ..whoever they play...and that comes from an Inter fan.
Come on Andy and Paul ...don't be part of the moronic herd
Not wishing to be cyncial, but the dark anti-Italian hatred is usually pedalled by the pundits who were never good enough to be considered for Serie A sides.
Isn't this a bit of a weird point? I mean, it's not like there's many players playing in the English leagues in the 1980s or even now that are ever considered seriously or signed by Italian teams is it? I can't think of that many - Wilkins, Hately, Platt, Rush, Ince no doubt a few more but not many over the space of about two/three decades. Most of them seem to last about two minutes before being shipped back (Lee Sharpe, Des Walker, Robbie Keane). To be honest I can't really imagine players like Houghton or Quinn ever really contemplating or wanting to play in Italy.
In the 1980s, I suspect that even Houghton and Quinn would have leapt at the chance to play in Serie A. The difficulties usually came when the players couldn't adapt to living in Italy ('It was like living in a foreign country', moaned Ian Rush on his return from Juve...), but Italy was seen as the place to go.
Quite a lot of [English] First Division players were linked with Italy (Hoddle once or twice; both Gary Stevens, Dean Saunders, Crooks [!]), often optimistically - but it was regarded as something in of a feather in English football's cap that Italian sides were considering 'our' players for their great teams. The same applied to the odd few (Steve Archibald) who went to Spain. And when Gazza went... Manna from heaven (Gazza in best league in world, will show brilliance to Italians, will... oh. Get punched off stool in nightclub by the invisible man, reinjure his knee and never quite live up to his billing for Lazio...)
The attitude shifted once Sky appeared with pots of money. From then on, it was as though football was invented in 1992, and from this point, English league football was best, never mind anywhere else. The suggestions that the Italian league was the best were completely unfounded, since it was rubbish and only shown on C4, which, as everyone knew, was a channel for minority sports, blah, blah, etc, etc... From that point onwards, Italian football became synonymous with cynical rubbish.
I can guarantee, though, that if Rooney ends up at Milan (say), Italian football will suddenly become wonderful...
was ridiculous. "The Italian League must be rubbish if Juventus are leading it by 9 points." (to paraphrase)
