No need to apologise for your views here Sarah!

The only problem I have is where people promote views as fact, and make absurd comments about shows that they have never seen.

I enjoyed Angel as well. In fact, your top 3 are just fine by me! (Albeit I would have TWW at 1 not 2!)

I'm not talking about 'quality' I'm talking about rules and conventions. The Sopranos broke TV conventions with its swearing/sex/violence. I know its in keeping with the genre, but I'm very sure people in the White House swear as much as mafia soldiers do, and I'm very sure there's sex going in there too, with or without cigars. I'm also not saying that West Wing isn't a great show without showing this stuff, but i don't see what ground it broke. saying it broke 'drama' ground i don't know how you can qualify that. What does that mean? Like I said, Hill St Blues had high quality acting/writing etc. West Wing is its equal and maybe is even better I don't know, but just being better isn't breaking ground. But if we were to list the American 'adult' dramas that are now truly 18 certificate, there are lots and even more on their way. It seems quite norml now that an American adult drama will show show full on sex or violence, but it wasn't so before The Sopranos. It wasn't heard of, But yes, there are great adult drama shows that don't go all the way, but still go a long way, The Shield, 24, West Wing, and more. My argument that The Sopranos caused a shift is not about quality, like I say, it's about rule breaking/changing.

and I don't care if people love Buffy of Angel either. They are clearly very good teen dramas, perhaps the best ever, I think Smallville is the only teen drama i really watch, and it is very good too.

quote:

(Albeit I would have TWW at 1 not 2!)

The only reason I put The X-Files at the top was it was the show that changed the way I thought about a television series. I loved it. To me, it ws more than just sitting down and watching it - I had to talk to someone about it the next day (or within the week) Nobody in my family liked the show apart from my grandpa - so it would be him who I talked to about it and he would borrow my boxsets etc....(he loved TWW aswell, so we talked about that too when it started!) But he died about 10 before the BBC showed the final ever episodes, so he never got to see it. I think of the show fondly, even though it wasn't as good at the end.

X-Files was brilliant and also upped the anti of TV drama in its own way. I felt like I was the last person on earth who watched to the end episode though.

It seems that we all just about agree on the relative merits of the shows mentioned, and the view then boils down to definitions of what constitues raising the bar. There are clearly going to be different perspectives on this, but it is nice to see that we are all pretty much coming from the same place.

Another show i used to love was Moonlighting. It was a comedy/drama, but it broke the rules like there was none. Characters broke the 4th Wall and talked to camera, they made references to themselves as a TV show, it had musical episodes, even an episode that broke into a 10 minute ballet halfway through. It had dream episodes that became Film Noir or Shakespearian. It broke them all (except swearing, S&V) and was a totally radical TV comedy/drama and Bruce Willis was just brilliant as David Addison

I must admit that I used to watch that too.

I think my favourite moment where a program has taken the p*** out of itself was the UK comedy, Game On.

At the end of the first series, the excellent Ben Chaplin, who played Matt Malone, left, and was replaced by Neil Stuke. At the end of the first episode of series 2, the three flatmates were sitting watching TV, and an actor on the show they were watching had left and been replaced. One of the flatmates turned to the others (I think it was Neil Stuke), and said something like...

"Oh, I hate that...when someone leaves and they replace them, and everyone just carries on like nothing has happened". Cue the other two slowly turning their heads to glance at him.

Classic!

Ive got one for yers... Murder One. Brilliant, particularly the first series

Game On was brilliant! I wish the Beeb would repeat it.

quote:

Originally posted by sarah L:
Game On was brilliant! I wish the Beeb would repeat it.

Often repeated on UKTV G2, if you get that.

Murder One was ahead of its time. Look at all the shows doing an ongoing story week to week now (24, Lost etc.) and yet Murder One failed on TV because of that very format... so much so they dropped it themselves in season 2 in a desperate attempt to win viewers.

How times change.

yes that first series was totally gripping. What was the accused called again? Richard Cross?

quote:

Often repeated on UKTV G2, if you get that.

Unfortunately, I'm one of those people still in the dark ages and don't have Sky or satellite tv.

24

The accused in S1 of Murder One was called Nwil Avedon, a famous actor.

Saw the series again recently and really enjoyed it, ceratinly paved the way for the serial dramas that have followed in its wake.

Mine are (in no order):

Twin Peaks
NYPD Blue
Law and Order Criminal Intent
X Files
CSI Las vegas
Homicide


For UK shows, I liked Ultraviolet a lot and Taggert - can't think of any more!

quote:

The accused in S1 of Murder One was called Nwil Avedon, a famous actor.

Oh yeah. Did Richard Cross do it? the character played by Stanley Tucci who was great in it too I remember

quote:

Originally posted by hands_d:
Murder One was ahead of its time. Look at all the shows doing an ongoing story week to week now (24, Lost etc.) and yet Murder One failed on TV because of that very format... so much so they dropped it themselves in season 2 in a desperate attempt to win viewers.

How times change.

I'll never understand why Murder One was not more popular - like Third Watch, most people love it once they give it a chance. It's funny how it went downhill when it tried to leave that 'ongoing' format during the second series - the LaPaglia era was diabolial in comparison - granted he had to follow the great Teddy Hoffman but the second series was such a poor version it shouldn't even be called the second series - it bore no resemblance to the quality of the first. Maybe I'm being harsh.

If you want to find out (or be reminded) if Richard Cross did it -Stanley Tucci does a good job playing that fiend, I think we are up to the final episodes on FX - I watch it late on Sundays so not sure if this was revealed on Wednesday.

Bad girls
Quantum Leap
Lost
ER
Law and Order
High Street Blues
NYPD Blues

Inspector Morse. John Thaw was a brilliant screen actor. It will always baffle me that he never stepped up into movies. He is a master compared to the British actors who have stepped up in recent years. He was our Gene Hackman and was every bit as skilled and charastmatic as Gene Hackman and Morse and Regan (in the equally brilliant The Sweeney) were his best parts and if you think about it, couldn't actually be further away from each other as types, even though they're both 'TV Cops' as such

i know it's kinda geeky but i was so into the x-files for the first few years

Oh yeah, The X Files was a phenom, a phonoina, a phononi,....it was great.

quote:

Originally posted by Dark/Light:
You're a teenage girl, right? They're fluff, but I'm sure they're great fun. Neither shows are as good as the first four series of X-Files or Quantum Leap which were also a lot of nonsense but great entertainment.

Dude you've seriously got the worst people instincts going. I'm a 20 year old guy and both Buffy and Angel are not fluff. Have you actually ever watched a full season of either of these series? They're just as good as The X-Files, Twin Peaks and even Quantum Leap. What other has successfully done a silent episode and a musical episode, and what network series has done a really graphic near rape scene? Does this begin to ram home the blindingly obvious fact that Buffy isn't neccessarily for kids?[/QUOTE]
MY GOD!!! I was just reading through this thread and had to stop take a deep breath and re-read what you posted, "They're just as good as ...., TWIN PEAKS". Have you ever seen Twin Peaks, what am i saying, clearly you haven't or you've been taking large doses of some kind of illegal substance...

*shakes head*

The Sopranos - Quite simply the finest TV ever created bar none.


end of discussion

quote:

Originally posted by Kieser Souza:
Inspector Morse.

I was lucky enough to have worked on five series' of 'Morse'. I worked for the composer as his assistant/programmer/copyist etc and I played on several of the sessions. I also appeared very briefly (blink