Interesting how they have lined up two fairly attractive charecters as the Presidential hopefuls. Could it be that if TWW does go on ( and I have a lot of doubts ) it might be under a Republican administration. Any of you people in the know heard any rumours? Also I would like to see old Jed go out on a bit of a high rather than following Enoch Powell's maxim that all political life ends in failure.

I gather the series is not the money grabber that it previously was in the USA and that will be what finally decides its future. Well at least we have our memories, DVDs etc. And yes given the blood they have spilt at different times in the series both Josh and Donna deserve to fulfill their desires - but I do worry about Toby - where will he get another political job?

By the way - when do you stop being a new member?

Well, second question first - I think you earn a star first - 20 posts, I think, not exactly sure.

You make some good points. I have been looking at West Wing sites based in the USA and it doesn't sound ridiculous that they could plan on having a Republican President - one who more accurately reflects what we have at the moment.

However, I've also seen the websites for the Vinick and Santos campaigns (yes, they actually have real campaign websites, available through the official West Wing site) that Santos is polling much higher than Vinick over there. This makes me wonder if they could actually decide on the next President based on the audience poll. Wouldn't that be cool?

Anyway, it's all pure conjecture. I really have no idea and no one else seems to either.

You've also raised a good question about what happens to the staffers if Vinick wins? Do they cut loose the entire cast and start afresh? It doesn't really make sense to do this - what good is a White House without Toby, Josh and CJ?

Apparently, the 7th season is running in the USA at the moment, but I read on one site that the network is messing around with the schedule a lot - only 1 episode in Dec, 1 in Jan and then the rest in March and April - something to do with "Sweeps" if you have any idea what that is!?! One person said that this does not suggest that TWW is of high importance and therefore doesn't bode well for the show's future. Mind you, if they go down the Republican route I'm not sure I'd want to see it anyway!

Some interesting points raised in this thread. I am following WW6 on More4 so have not yet seen it all, but my first thoughts are that it still seems to be missing something from earlier seasons. I felt that season 5 started off poorly (the conclusion to Zoe's kidnapping, after the truely brilliant cliffhanger of season 4, was particularaly disappointing) but did improve. I am hoping that this pattern will be repeated in season 6.

However, the spark between the characters has gone - the interrelationships between Leo, Josh, Toby, Sam, CJ and the president was TV at its finest, and although he wasn't my favourite character, I think the show misses the Sam influence immensely. Will is not the right replacement, and they seem to have marginalised him as the seasons have progressed. Also, I guess that Leo will shortly disappear from the scene too, which is a shame as he was another anchor around which the others sparked.

I do really wonder whether the right approach would be to finish things off at the end of season 7, and from what you say about the show's treatment in the US (we thought that C4 was bad when it came to scheduling - imagine what it would be like to just lose the show for a month, then one more episode, then another month and so on!), this seems to be getting more likely. To me, it is starting to feel like the show may be coming to the end of its natural life, but what a life that was!

You make some really good points. I personally agree with the idea of finishing off the series at the end of 7.

I do know they plan on having the Inauguration half way through series 7 (although no one yet knows who will win - not even the cast). This would give them a handful of episodes in which to show the new President and his staff bedding down and (if it turns out to be Vinick) show what happens to the Bartlet administration staffers - tie up all the loose ends and call it a day.

As you say, the show isn't the same and, you may well be right, does seem to be coming to an end of its natural life. That isn't to say that I think season 6 is bad - for me, it's still the finest thing on TV, but you're oh so right about the lack of spark between the characters - everyone just looks surly and miserable these days and THEY FORGOT TO BRING THE FUNNY!!!! Moments of pathos and intense drama are only really effective if balanced with humour and a light touch - ask Shakespeare!

Absolutely - The West Wing is still totally unmissable in my household. I also noted with interest the article on the Guardian's media website about More4, that said that one of the WW episodes was the second most popular show in its opening month (failing to have an irate ex-home secretary to stoke the ratings further!). Good to see that it has found a good home on More4.

And yes - I used to belly laugh at times in earlier seasons (the time line fiasco in season 4 particularly springs to mind....), but don't recall doing so in either of seasons 5 or 6 (so far). And Toby used to be funny with his surly nature, but no longer....

Yes I completely agree. There were so many funny moments earlier on - my particular favourites include Josh's hilariously dire press briefing and the hangover scene when Donna found him wearing a pair of women's underwear around his neck - the look of confusion when he sees Joey Lucas for the first time is just priceless.

I don't feel season 5 is as bad as some people say - I thought the episode about the nominations for the supreme court and the 2 part episode about the budget were excellent, but the banter has indeed departed with Sorkin. You're right about Toby, too. His surliness was funny and oftimes endearing in earlier eps but now his face looks like a thundercloud most of the time...

It's good to know that More4's audience is tuning in to see TWW though!!!

Yep - The Supremes and Shutdown certainly did stand out from season 5, and were classic West Wing. However, they really did stand out from the rest, which tells it's own story in my opinion.

I completely agree.

what do you think of season 6? How far have you seen? Are you watching on More4 or do you have the DVDs? I know it went down well in the States and is generally considered better than season 5 by most. I'm not entirely sure about that, though and would be interested in your take...

I am watching it on More4, so I am up to episode 6 (The Dover Test). I've got to be honest, and say that it hasn't gripped me any more or less than season 5 to date. As I think I said earlier in this thread, I am hoping that it hits its stride later in the season like season 5 did. Does anyone who has seen all of season 6 know if this happens (no spoilers please!)? The first couple of episodes in this season were pretty good though.

I think the extreme reaction to season 5 was probably down to the massive change post-Sorkin. Now we have got used to that a bit, people are saying that season 6 isn't so bad. Just a thought....

It is still good TV, but no longer appears to be great. Put it this way, once I manage to get up the cash to get the DVDs of each season (I only have 1 and 2 at the moment), I will watch season 6 (and 5) again, but will keep returning to seasons 1 to 4 (especially 1, 2 and 4).

I have seen all of season 6 - hmmm...can't really say. In some ways I like 5 better for the fact that it's on more familiar ground.

As the campaign gets going (no spoilers, I promise) the format changes a bit, moving between it and the happenings in the White House so this changes the show a lot - it really shakes things up (when you watch, you'll know why). Whether you feel it's for the better or not, you'll have to decide but it certainly makes for interesting viewing.

As for the DVDs - if you have a multi region player you may consider getting them from Amazon.com in the USA. Not only are they cheaper, but also include extras that never appeared on the Region 2 editions.

Does anyone happen to know what extras feature in the new Bartlet years DVD set by the way?

Owning the dvd of season 6 I can say that I do think that it gets better towards the end of the sesaon. The last episode- all I can say is Wow! Can't wait for season 7, what does everyone think of the the idea of the live episode that took place?

Its also not completly lost its humour one of my favorite moments-

President- "Turkmenistan to US - we didn't order these pizza's"
Josh- "I bet your thinking there's a good explanation for that."

I've written a comment on the live debate you may want to check out - see redjess's topic.

I think your view that season six is great is widely held so maybe I'm being a bit sentimental and simply thinking back to the gold old days where Bartlet had a sense of humour, Josh and Donna brought the banter and CJ and Toby shared those little flirty moments. Ah, those were the days...

You'll never beat Season 1 & 2.They were outstanding.I love the humour, that's what got me there in the first place and the writing.Josh has always been the funny one.There is humour in 6 but it's not the same as the early years.
Does anyone know about the live episode.Did they do 2 versions.One live edition for east coast and then a live edition for west coast.I know Will & Grace did a live episode recently and they did east and west versions.Everything was the same but I think Debra messing laughed on one edition...Anyway, which version would they put on a dvd?Either the best version or both.I say both, let us choose.

Soo

You can check out my comments on this in the other west wing topic...

Well this thread seems to have taken off nicely. Like all of you I loved the humerous snap-shots in earlier series. However I have to say that I think they've developed the series well. Stresses and strains deveop in political life and as we can see fron real life, second term presidencies are very prone to folding up as everybody realises that this guy is not the one who will be dolling out the jobs in a couple of years. I would be grateful for any web addresses to follow up USA deveopments in TWW

As an extra I arrived home at about 18-30 the other night to find younger son playing with TV control which landed up on ITV3 ( unknown to me at that time ). To my surprise there was one of my very old favourites LA Law on screen. And who should emerge on screen but our very own Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates working as lawyers for McKenzie-Brackman. Haven't they done well!!

I really doubt my ability to cope with a Republican victory. TWW has been a sort of liberal life line for me. However the calibre of the actors they have got in to fight out the election does make me wander whether they are really ready to drop it.

Like the rest of you I still split my sides at the sailing kit scene but also remember the somberness of the federal execution. This series really has it all and is the best thing I have seen from either side of the Atlantic in very many years ( if not ever ).

Would be grateful for any info web addresses.

Yes, I completely agree! Thanks for that.

The Bartlet4America site is quite good for news - it includes lots of newspaper articles you can read from obscure papers from somewhere in middle America!

TWW Continuity Guide also has episode guides and spoilers about things coming up in TWW. If you type it into Google you should get the proper address. Hope it helps.

Yes, it's funny seeing LA Law now - John Spencer looked so much younger, but Jimmy Smits hasn't aged at all.

As for the winners of the campaign - I, too, find it hard to stomach the idea of a Republican in the White House (I wonder why!!!) but we'll have to see, I guess...

Thanks for the info. I see Toby gets the sack at one point. I'm sure he'll return. Nevertheless the writers are not going out of their way to make this series too sugary. Must get one of those Santos campaign buttons.

I suppose Bartlett has lost some of his humour but the again advancing MS might do that. I think the writers are not going for an easy option - good on them.

You're welcome!

If you find out where to get the Santos buttons, let me know!

Have you been on the NBC West Wing site? There's a link there to the "campaign" sites. It's worth checking out.

Yeah, the humour as gone, that's for sure, and I miss it, but, yes, the seriousness of all the situations don't allow for much humour. However, and I've said this before, that gravitas and heavy drama does need to be tampered with something light hearted so that the impact is greater...

You know, I've been thinking about this since was last shared ideas on it... it occurs to me, that the seriousness of the subject matter is simply not a good enough excuse for having lost the funny! Seriously, think back over seasons 1 to 4. They were filled with humourous moments, but weren't short on the hard hitting stuff either.

If you think about it, some of the issues covered in these seasons included: alcohol and drug addiction; assassination attempts; Qumar; pipe bombs; stalkers; Alzheimer's; MS; kidnapping; India and Pakistan; China and Korea; patriot missile tests; running for re-election; the legalisation of cannabis; Post Traumatic Stress Disorder... I could go on...

So...why should this season be any different. There truth as I see it, is that the current writers simply can't do it. They only have one string to thier bow, if you'll forgive the music metaphor.

I feel drama is better when you can care about the characters. Does anyone else feel that it's becoming harder to care about what happens to some of these characters? Toby is more morose by the day, Josh never smiles, CJ is so different in her new role... It would be interesting to know what you think of season 6 now that we are further into the season...

I suppose it depends on what the writers are trying to get out of the show. Second term presidencies almost always go down the pan. Its happening to Bush, and it definitely happened with Clinton ( although mostly because of the Lewinski nonsense ) and Regan ( cos the poor bloke was completely losing the plot ). On top of any personal difficulties they may have, people start to lose interest in them because they are not going to be handing out the jobs in the future. Its interesting how many second term Presidents look to foreign policy to try and achieve immortality, and Bartlett has been played no differently. In many ways I admire the writers attempts to keep a degree of realism.

However like you I miss the glorious humour of the early series when all was hope and I desperately want Toby to lighten up just a bit. He was never a laugh a minute but at least he had a superb cynical wit. Now he always looks like he's been told he has a week to live. What happened to those twin children who were going to change his life - he could do with some distraction therapy.

As a drama its taken us through all the ups and downs and it remains the only TV series were I have actually gone out to buy the DVDs. To my delight and surprise my kids became just as hooked as me and it positively helped my older son boost his grading in his USA History A level. Nevertheless all good things come to an end, although I still have a few lingering hopes that an extra series will be attempted given the quality of the actors in the roles for presidential candidates. However someone, somewhere knows this for sure at this stage.

Whatever happens the Bartlett years saved my sanity and I wish him well in retirement as an elder statesman. From what I gather following a chance meeting with a C4 executive they were always amazed at the loyalty the fans had to the show. It was apparently a small but extremely vociverous group with some very highy placed members ( he would say no more ) with the result that they could never bring themselves to give the show the push despite its low viewing numbers.I have to say that I'm rather pleased about the treatment which More4 is giving it.

Anyway lets enjoy the rest of the series and see what happens. What about a TWW fan Club in the future? We can have conventions every 4 years and let rip with tales of Bartlett's great achievements!!!

Thanks so much for your views - yes, I do see exactly what you mean and if we were looking for art to imitate life, TWW has certainly shown the pitfalls of a 2 term Presidency - the feeling that most things are still as bad as they were 8 years ago and that some things are worse.

Then, of course, the feeling that the country is looking beyond, to the next President, hoping for something different and that the current administration is simply treading water until the time comes!!!

There's a great ep (not sure if it's been screened yet as I have the DVDS!) where Leo brings up this exact point: there is still so much we can do... but Josh also makes a good point when he says that someone needs to think beyond the Administration and worry about a possible future in which Bingo Bob could be the next President!

It's interesting to know about the Channel 4 view on TWW - it would never be on top of the viewer polls because it's intelligent, quality drama and necessitates a bit of thought. Most people seem happy watching mindless shows - not that I'm saying there isn't a place for it, (please don't think I'm being a snob!) but it's refreshing to know that once a week we can be treated to something a little more cerebral.

I am getting astrong feeling from what I've seen on the net, that season 7 may well be the last one. It sounds as if they may show the Inauguration of a new President and tie it all up and call it a day. Not sure I'd be totally disappointed - don't know how I'd take to a White House without Bartlet. Of course, there's also an issue re: current cast. If Vinick wins, we'd get a whole new cast, if Santos wins, at most we'd get to keep only a handful of the current staff.

The convention sounds fun!