Both what Becca and Jake did were natural reactions, one based on self preservation and the other on hurt, anger and betrayal. But back on the topic. Becca, you say may be ENTITLED to her emotions but what both Mandy and Nancy were trying to tell Becca is that she can feel what she feels but how she was dealing with it was wrong. Expecting Nancy and Mandy to be there for her, to pick her up, to support her and to make everything better when all she was prepared to do for herself is wallow in self pity and spend each day crying. Becca was quite prepared to make sure that Nancy took care of all the things she should have been doing and would even pitch in when Mandy tried to help her. You are right, Jo2005, the world doesn't stop because one person is hurting, but Becca expected Nancy and Mandy's world stop for her and it was even harder for them to accept when everything is of her own doing. Mandy was right in that if Becca stands by what she did, she has to be prepared to accept the responsility for it. All through affair, Becca didn't think about anyone else, and now it's out, she still isn't thinking of anyone because she's too busy feeling sorry for herself. Becca hasn't done anything to make sure Nancy is ok, she hasn't shown appreciation for Mandy's help despite what Mandy is going through, and she hasn't even decided to put the baby first, rather blaming it for making life complicated and being alone such a difficult prospect.

As for your little nugget of wisdom, Cushty, I too would like to know what's coming around for Becca and Justin. I mean they have been involved in ruining two people's lives (Jake and Nancy's) with lying and deceit. They have trampled on people's feelings, especially considering Becca was supposed to care about them both and Jake actually made time for Justin in his time of trouble. Did he deserve to be paid back by being stabbed in the back after persuading Justin to do what's best for him. Did nancy deserve to be denied the chance to see her father before he died? The fact that Becca and Justin fell in love is not the issue, the fact that they wilfully hurt people to get what they wanted is. So what will be their come-uppance for treating people so badly? A happy ending? That does seem fair, until it happens to you, I guess.

I'm talking about Jake beating up Justin. I was saying i don't condone it. Just as i don't condone Becca slapping Nancy. But there's a big difference between what Becca did to Nancy and what Jake did to Justin.[/QUOTE]

Then by the same arguement you have to condone Justin hitting his own mother and pushing Darlene through a glass panel. Added to which there was the fights with Macki and buying a knife to threaten Macki with.

Justin even once admitted he would love Jake to hit him so he could justify Becca having an affair with him, well he finally got what he wanted then. Personally I don't blame Jake at all for beating up Justin who can be a nasty thug when he wants to. Or are some forgetting how he threatened Becca last year after she tried to help the police catch him and how he broke into her flat as well, with the police having to give her protection.

quote:

Originally posted by Andy McSurfie:
I'm talking about Jake beating up Justin. I was saying i don't condone it. Just as i don't condone Becca slapping Nancy. But there's a big difference between what Becca did to Nancy and what Jake did to Justin.

Then by the same arguement you have to condone Justin hitting his own mother and pushing Darlene through a glass panel. Added to which there was the fights with Macki and buying a knife to threaten Macki with.

Justin even once admitted he would love Jake to hit him so he could justify Becca having an affair with him, well he finally got what he wanted then. Personally I don't blame Jake at all for beating up Justin who can be a nasty thug when he wants to. Or are some forgetting how he threatened Becca last year after she tried to help the police catch him and how he broke into her flat as well, with the police having to give her protection.[/QUOTE]

thats the selective memory kicking in, I just don't see them being happy, if you cause so much pain you cannot and will not be happy.
My dad left my mum after 15 years of marriage because his affair came out, him and his new woman got married very quickly, granted he stayed for 23 years, however he wanted to leave a lot sooner, only he had already messed up 3 kids lives he didnt want to mess up my little sisters life too so he stayed until 3 weeks after her 18th birthday and then walked out, taking nothing but a few clothes with him. I remember staying with them 6 months before he left, asking everyone around me what was up with my dad, no one could answer because he had been that way for so long no one realized he was on the verge of walking out, but me.
I asked him many times what was up, he replied with nothing, only it didn't fool me. So even if they did get together and tried to make it work, you get back what you dish out. It's only a matter of time. Thats only one example of a long list if you reap what you sew.

quote:

Originally posted by Andy McSurfie:
I'm talking about Jake beating up Justin. I was saying i don't condone it. Just as i don't condone Becca slapping Nancy. But there's a big difference between what Becca did to Nancy and what Jake did to Justin.

Then by the same arguement you have to condone Justin hitting his own mother and pushing Darlene through a glass panel. Added to which there was the fights with Macki and buying a knife to threaten Macki with.

Justin even once admitted he would love Jake to hit him so he could justify Becca having an affair with him, well he finally got what he wanted then. Personally I don't blame Jake at all for beating up Justin who can be a nasty thug when he wants to. Or are some forgetting how he threatened Becca last year after she tried to help the police catch him and how he broke into her flat as well, with the police having to give her protection.[/QUOTE]

Did you read what i said? I said i DIDN'T condone the actions of either. Both were wrong but there's a difference between a slap and a full on beating. I never said i condoned either one, because i don't condone violence of any kind.

Then where do you stand then on some who provokes someone into commiting violence then Jo since Justin did exactly that to Jake just by what he did.

I defy anyone on earth who isn't proveked enough not to admit they are not even tempted to use violence as a means of hitting back. Even Tony did it when he tried to defence himself against Mnandy's attacks on him and got a reputation as being a wife beater because of it.

If Justin didn't want to incur Jake's wrath he had one simple thing to do and that is not sleep with Becca and turn her down when she first came to him. However he is so full of macho bull walking around with a massive chip on his shoulder, then why is it that when he does provoke someone he is made out to be a victim.

The same goes for Darren when he tries to wind Jake up, as he shouldn't be made out to be a victim either because he deliberately winds Jake up to provoke a response, or don't you believe that incitement to commit violence is equally wrong.

What Jake did was not premeditated and he did it in the heat of the moment. He had just found out his wife had not only been lying to him for some time but sleeping with the very person she had spent time denying she had any feeling for.

Name one incident since Jake beat up Justin where he had actually used physical violence against Becca or even gone hunting after Justin for round two. Name one and you find he hasn't. If Jake is that violent he will be doing both of those things but he isn't.

I know burns the mattress from the bed but that is because he finds out Becca is still lying to him over Justin, rubbing more salt into thw wound.

quote:

Originally posted by Andy McSurfie:
Then where do you stand then on some who provokes someone into commiting violence then Jo since Justin did exactly that to Jake just by what he did.

I defy anyone on earth who isn't proveked enough not to admit they are not even tempted to use violence as a means of hitting back. Even Tony did it when he tried to defence himself against Mnandy's attacks on him and got a reputation as being a wife beater because of it.

If Justin didn't want to incur Jake's wrath he had one simple thing to do and that is not sleep with Becca and turn her down when she first came to him. However he is so full of macho bull walking around with a massive chip on his shoulder, then why is it that when he does provoke someone he is made out to be a victim.

The same goes for Darren when he tries to wind Jake up, as he shouldn't be made out to be a victim either because he deliberately winds Jake up to provoke a response, or don't you believe that incitement to commit violence is equally wrong.

What Jake did was not premeditated and he did it in the heat of the moment. He had just found out his wife had not only been lying to him for some time but sleeping with the very person she had spent time denying she had any feeling for.

Name one incident since Jake beat up Justin where he had actually used physical violence against Becca or even gone hunting after Justin for round two. Name one and you find he hasn't. If Jake is that violent he will be doing both of those things but he isn't.

I know burns the mattress from the bed but that is because he finds out Becca is still lying to him over Justin, rubbing more salt into thw wound.

I can understand why someone will use violence when provoked, i won't even lie and say that i never have. But that doesn't mean i condone it. In some cases i can understand it. Like in Jake's case, i can totally understand his wanting to beat the daylights out of Justin. I understand he was angry and so he did just that. But understanding and agreeing with it and condoning it, are very different things. I don't even condone myself for having hit someone before. But i do understand that sometimes you get into a rage, see red and lash out.

I understand Jake's actions, i don't condone them.

And even Justin could admit he had the beating coming.

quote:

Originally posted by Jo2005:
Yes Mandy has been through a lot, and she's in pain. But life doesn't stop for everyone else, theire pain and emotions don't become non-existent because their friend is hurting. I'm not syaing Becca is completely right, but she's going through something, yes it is self-inflicted really, but that doesn't change the fact that at the minute she's an emotional wreck.

On top of that he friend expects her to just stop loving the guy she loves. Let's remember even Mandy sees that Becca loves Justin (which does say something about last weeks 'i thought i loved him comment' probably being about Jake). Becca is entitled to be emotional too.

i totally agre with that, yeh mandys been through somethin terrible but she was just takin it out on becca i think. beccas lost everything at least mandy still has ppl that care about her. but mandys obviously hurt that beccas pregnant when she just lost her child but its not like becca chose for it to happen. i dont even like becca that much but i thought that was crap the way mandy was shoutin at her walked out n slammed the door behind her. she could at least have just said " look becca, stop feeling sorry for yourself and do somethng about it" not went off on a pure screamin rant like she did. i really dont like mandy anymore. i cant believe she kisses dom n wants him instead of tony. tony worships the ground she walks on but even before grace died she was alwyas havin a go at him about something. i mean GEEZO!

Stella, I think you're wrong here. Mandy is suffering quite badly and despite there being people who care about her, the one person she needs the most (Tony) is of no use because he's dealing with his own grief. Despite all this, mandy took time out to support a friend who's troubles were all of her own making. No one suddenly took her life from her, Becca threw it all away with lies, deceit and adultery. Mandy was trying not to judge Becca but help her get back on her feet and face the world. The sight of Becca wallowing while she is going through worse must have been hard to take, I'm sure. Rememer, Becca put Mandy in the tough position of lying to Jake's face. Becca denied Nancy the chance to see her father one last time because it would have got in the way of her dirty weekend. And here she is expecting both to pick up the pieces for her while she sits around feeling sorry for herself. I would have been annoyed if I were Mandy. I think the last straw was Becca stupidly cursing the gift she's been blessed with (the baby, of course) when Mandy's had hers cruelly taken from her. Mandy might have been a little harsh but Becca choosing to lean on people who are hurting more than she is meant she had it coming.

i feel sorry for becca. After what she has been through. Though she deserves all she gets.