I still believe Enoch was right in what he said though

Hi ya bagal,
what Enoch was in fact attempting to do, is to project forward the impact of the policies of the time. A I believe to a degree he was right. Since then however a lot has happened, the, EU, Globalisation etc. I don't feel that the dispatches program seeks to blame anyone for what is percieved by many to be the current crisis. Niether do I feel that the strong feelings held by many relate to the current eastern european migrants, they are here to work, I have met many in my Local which is also a hotel, they respect our traditions and are greatful for the oppertunities the UK has offered them many have no intension of staying here, they will be here until their current contract run out and move on, in order to provide for their families. To be honest those I have met do integrate with the local population, and would agree that that there are elements in the UK who have no intension of integrating and see their own culture as superior and see them (the european migrants) as competition.

hope that makes sense.

Hi Rich
Yes I know that there are bad relations between different races in this Country..it is not just about English and Eastern Europeans...there have been Families here for generations who are fully intergrated (my Father is Italian and his father came over here origanally..my father is 75 now!)so I can see what you are saying.

or should I say different cultures...I just do not know anymore!!

I'm quite sure that Mr Powell was probably war wiery from the leadership elections. However is it not much better to have been beaten democratically, than that of the situation today where we have a leader of the country who was niether voted for by his party or the general public.

that aside if we all kept in what we felt was or is our duty to debate then we would never have developed as a society I admire Mr. Powell for the courage he showed in talking about the subject dispite the consiquences he knew he would face. Again I find myself asking have you actually heard the speach all the way through, or do your feelings and expressed view stem from the massive number of mis-interpretations of what he actually said?

now I'm confused, my previous posting was in responce to a posting that has been removed??????

Thats Big Brother for you Rich!

the truth hurts?

quote:

Originally posted by antonyD:
the truth hurts?

If you are referring to me....not at all antonyD...why would the truth hurt? but then again, it depends on what your version of the truth is and what my version is

Hi, Bagal,
I think AnthonyD is refering to the fact that it was his post that for some reason has been removed.
I don't feel that it should have been, although I can't remember the "language" used to make his point. He has the right to an opinion and I what he erote was his perception then for him this would be his reality and his truth.

we have nothing to fear but fear itself.

a article about powell's speech at http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/apr/18/britishidentity.race

Again, one mans perception of what Powel was talking about, perception being only personal truth. The link was interesting though. What is your own perception If you have listened to the speach in full that is? there is a link to it on the dispatches site.

I really don't know what you are talking about! but I need a wee... execuse me'''@@. I,ll be right back to read those post again.

quote:

Originally posted by Rich1:
Again, one mans perception of what Powel was talking about, perception being only personal truth. The link was interesting though. What is your own perception If you have listened to the speach in full that is? there is a link to it on the dispatches site.

stop with this myth that powell was this altruistc man of principle. he had other reasons for making that speech than 'starting a public debate'.
demonising the immigrants that he had helped to bring to UK as a minister was not on.

the worse thing is how words from 40 years ago are still the framework for discussions about immigration/race in 21st century.

I have to say I quite agree that a speach from 40 years ago is irrelivant today, because a lot has changed, The EU, Globalisation etc.

Personally I am a bit of a globalist and believe that people should be able to work and live where they like. My real problem is that in this country when we talk about ethnic minorities most people and employers first thought is for the asian comminity, What about the Irish, Polish, Afrocaribeans, other EU nationals etc.
Most of these groups accept the UK culture and have integrated, but I fear there are those groups that seek to change our culture and use our law's to benifit themselves at the expence of the uk population. When our current government talks about Britishness what does it actually mean?

Once again someones who expressed their right to fee speach has had their posting removed from this thread.......WHY?
The poster asked that I don't post again because he/she felt I was upsetting a lot of people.
Lets make it simple then, As I said or infered earlier I feel that all groups of people wanting to work or live in this country should be allowed to and that what I would like to see is that they respect our (the British)culture and traditions as we are asked to respect theirs.

I also believe that those comming here should be treat eaqually.
Question: WHen did you last see an NHS or local authority poster or information leflet in this country also written in Welsh, French, Itallian, Polish or any other language that represents the population other than in english and Urdu?

I haven't seen this programme, but I would like to. I was born in North London in 1938, and emigrated to Australia of my own free will & choice, with my family in 1967; the country that insists on "When in Australia, do as the Aussies do". All or any "offended" immigrants, including the British, are free to and encouraged to return to their countries of origin; and quite rightly so, in my opinion. In fact, quite a few British migrants have returned to their country of origin; again, of their own free will & choice.
From what I have been told by my family, relatives, friends, and email friends in England over the last 10 plus years or so, it's quite obvious to me that this programme has been long overdue.

Hi, Peegee
Why can't the uk be a bit more like Oz. I believe the last in the series is on C4 tomorrow but there are links to previous programmes on the dispatches web site.

a link should anyone need one

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/dispatches/immigr...enient+truth/1933847

The poster asked that I don't post again because he/she felt I was upsetting a lot of people


Rich..I have been on this forum long enough to know, if you was upsetting others they would let you know! What the poster felt is their opinion but may not be others opinion. You write a good post and I enjoy reading them..

Just thought I would paste in some of the discussion on the same topic from the dispatches site:

Rich1
New Member
Posted 08-04-08 20:45
In my own view the frustrations about migration, as with all politically charged debates are born out of the inability to have reasoned debate publicly. We as a nation have been silenced by political correctness and complex and unclear legislation (that is to say legislation that has been utilised to advantage one group over another). This is for me not just a debate about immigration but about freedom of speech. There have recently been many political issues raised in relation to the customs, practices and cultures of many minority groups, most of them about the indigenous British population in relation to sexuality, disability, religion or politics that through political correctness and an unwillingness or inability of the political machine to act.

Pent up frustrations breed anger and I believe we are angry because we have been wearing a gag for to long.

The present government wishes to impose democracy on others and yet we have a leader who was not elected by his party because he was unopposed and is not the leader elected by the people of this country and therefore has no mandate on which to preside over any political issue including that of immigration policy on behalf of the British people.

If we truly want to make a change then we must make our voices heard… At the forthcoming elections, I for one will be voting for “anyone else”.
Posts: 6

Ian_B08
New Member
Posted 08-04-08 21:56 Hide Post
I know exactly what you mean, 100% in agreement.
Posts: 6

Ignored post by Ian_B08 posted 08-04-08 21:56 Show Post

Grahamjt
New Member
Posted 08-04-08 22:21 Hide Post
Rich
I agree absolutely. Over the last 20 years there are been the relentless build-up of the 'ethnic industry' which has turned into a £multi-million sector with enormous power, and the apparent ability to control discussion and the political agenda. This is an almost secret world that very few of the indigenous population are allowed to enter, or benefit from.

It's not only politics. I work in universities, which used to be open to healthy debate, but which have become now become havens of political correctness, where 'minorities' may say and do more or lot what they wish, but white staff must 'walk on eggshells' constantly for fear of offending minorities - the ultimate sin.

I have started to ask myself why this could have occurred. The only rational explanation is the fight by politicians to capture a share of the dimishing vote. I frequently visit countries where immigrants are coming from - especially the old lot (non-EU). I see exactly how politics and political influence works there. Just see how many immigrants are now political activists. We are now seeing electoral fraud which was almost never present before. I wonder why they want to become politicians when most are disinterested in almost anything British. A million people have been added to the electoral register since the last election - almost all immigrants.

NuLabour knows it can count on the new immigrants, and the Tories are working hard on the more affluent older immigrants.

I firmly believe that the only reason that anyone is allowed to speak about immigration is because the 'old immigrants' are now frightened that their own 'gravy train' will come to a halt. I hear it direct from them in the UK and overseas all the time.

Because of the pent-up frustration of many people who have been made to suffer in silence for so long, there is every sign that the lid is going to blow off this country. One day, probably soon, there will be an incident that will occur that will be the 'straw that broke the camels back' and there will be bloody civil war in this country. I hope to God I'm long gone before it happens (I plan to join the rest of the emmigrants).

Our stupid, stupid politicians simply cannot see they are playing with fire.
Posts: 5

Ignored post by Grahamjt posted 08-04-08 22:21 Show Post

display007
New Member
Posted 09-04-08 13:31 Hide Post
Agree 100% with previous posts.

I think the Dispatches Immigration, was excellent and represented the feelings of a lot
of people. We never had a vote for mass immergration, we must vote on May 1st as that
is the way to show the idiots who have their heads in the clouds what we really care about.
Also I am sick of people commenting on Enoch Powells Rivers of Blood speech - when to listen to it IN FULL - not just certain edited parts-
IT IS CORRECT.
Thanks Channel 4 for a link to the speech in full - people should listen carefully before condeming Powell. Vote May 1st
Posts: 2

Ignored post by display007 posted 09-04-08 13:31 Show Post

Rich1
New Member
Posted 09-04-08 16:33 Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by display007:
Agree 100% with previous posts.

I think the Dispatches Immigration, was excellent and represented the feelings of a lot
of people. We never had a vote for mass immergration, we must vote on May 1st as that
is the way to show the idiots who have their heads in the clouds what we really care about.
Also I am sick of people commenting on Enoch Powells Rivers of Blood speech - when to listen to it IN FULL - not just certain edited parts-
IT IS CORRECT.
Thanks Channel 4 for a link to the speech in full - people should listen carefully before condeming Powell. Vote May 1st
Posts: 6

Ignored post by Rich1 posted 09-04-08 16:33 Show Post

Rich1
New Member
Posted 09-04-08 16:48 Hide Post
thank you for your contributions so far, my origional topic although it did include migration was a much wider topic relating generaly to the social control exercised by the current government both local and national. I am a believer in perception being the personal reality and it seems that our constructs about any particular topic are influenced by Government policy, the media and our own backgrounds and the influences and experiences of our lives. On the subject of economic migration is it not fare to say that footballers that tranfere from or to teams in other countries or to this one are also migrants?

getting back to my origional point, it seems that the government both locally and nationally are to comfortable in their current possitions a situation which they strive to protect at the expence of representing those who origionally used their vote to elect them because they felt that their concers, the concerns of there communities and the best interest of the country would best be represented by those individuals orv a particular political party,

in protecting their own interest it is my view that they have used social control as a means of silencing opposition, thus strengthening their own positions.

I just feel that we all should redress the political balance and let our representitives know that we are not happy and that unless they are prepared to listen to and hear the view of the people of this country then we will seek representation from elswhere.

use your vote and if as is sugested by dispaches and other programms the current government be it local or national is out of touch then it is time we let them know.
Posts: 6

Ignored post by Rich1 posted 09-04-08 16:48 Show Post

Rich1
New Member
Posted 11-04-08 08:37 Hide Post
Hi Again
I guess from the limited contributions that I may be worng. Maybe contrary to what dispatches portrays people don't that they are unable to have their say. or maybe the opposite can be concluded that is that the influence of political correctness extends even to this site.
I have read comments on other discussions but you can hardly say that a hundred or more replies is representitive of the population.

THANKs Grayham for your contribution I quite agree with your comments, I to have had similar experiences to those described by you with reguards to University.

Big brother has removed my post.
Rick I am sorry ok? Keep doing what you are doing,just don't post the same think again and again. maybe you could be the next Prime Minister, who knows?

we do respect British cultures, otherwise we would'nt be here.