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Originally posted by esn:
I think a lot of the control is to do with the people they meet and the suggestion stuff that Derren Brown (not Dan Brown!) specailises in - did you see the hiest programme he did?

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Originally posted by zinzi:

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Originally posted by Lissyloulou:

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Originally posted by esn:
Are you sitting comfortablly? Well I hope so because this is going to take a while

Don't worry I love a good ramble and I'm guilty of one myself (What if it's all there in black and white thread)
Here I go..!!

Anyhow

Disclaimer

This is my first atttempt to explain everything that happens on Lost. I have no plan on how to write this and Im wirting this has I think of it. Hence forth, I may repeat myself (several times LOL) or explain things too much so please dont have a go at me for that. I may also accidently under explain things or leave certain stuff out so If I do that then please tell me and I will clairify/ work it in there.

I would also like to point out that has a signiture to the spoiler free manifest and a memeber of A.S.S, I do not do spoilers and this does not include any, it is purely all theory.


One final thing, take your time reading this and please get back to me. Im whilling to discuss this and debate this. Consider this a work in progress if you will. Enjoy

My G.U.T on Lost

The Island


The Island itself is essentially the home to a war of Science V Faith. I agree with you there esn. So do I! /Signed!

Many years ago, it was a netural hide out for a secret society (Like the feemasons)for those that were exeptional in certain areas, who came to the island for their secret meetings, getting ideas across and to seek sprirtuallity and so forth. The island itself, its location and so on was kept secret by the secret societys influnece in the outside world and ony those within the secret society knew how to get there. Entry to said secert society was only limited to those of expetional ablities and only then those people had to be invited to join by those already members. thats an excellent new twist on it esn. The fact that a society already knew about it and visited it rather than the island being totally undiscovered.

It is an excellent new twist - what better location for a secret society than an island in the middle of the Pacific?!
Love it! With me reading A&D and as of late currently DVC, secret socioties really interest me, I just had a mad think that maybe all of our castaways are part of the socioty but have no idea that anyone else is. Or maybe it was just Locke, when he was going on about his 'destiny' maybe this is all part of the socioties plans for a 'New world order' of some sorts?!!

It was a utopia for many years. Then splits emerged within the society between those of faith (those exeptional for relgion and magic etc) and Science (including logic and practical stuff). These splits were over what the island should be used for and the future of the society. They knew that bringing these great minds together they could solve much of the worlds problems somehow with their vast influence and great knowledge. The trouble was what direction to go in.
I know it might sound like I am nit picking but I think the to divides were science and religion [not faith], I think faith is a huge part. But I think everyone has faith, I think the main difference between a man with faith who is scientifically oriented, is that he has faith in proving fact. Religious people with faith may be seen as being blind, and will continue to have 'faith' even without any evidence! Back on topic, I also believe that there were to groups. And I think our 'Adam and Eve' were 'rebels'(?) who used both (as that of Galalio(sp)) who was a scientist, but also a religious man. And believed that science was Gods language to explain everything...

The splits widened and two distinct groups emerged, those who belived Faith to be the solution and those who belived Science to be. For a little while, these two groups worked side by side with each other on the island. Science claimed the labortory situated down the islands core (hence the hatch) and Faith claimed the upper layers of the island. Of course, these two sides were competing for resources that they brought with them, if they did meet, agruments would fray and tensions grew. The tensions grew into violent schermishes (sp)eventually decending into out and out conflict and hatred between the two groups.esn, are you saying that these two sides lived always on the island. Would you picture them having the means to leave and live in the outside world. Would they go to the outside world for supplies. I like your theory, but I am wondering if once there they would have said ok, we cut off all access to the outside or not. How do you envisage them getting there? by boat or plane? And what would they have done with their transport once there?

Do you think that "Adam and Eve" were members of the original group/secret society?
Interesting, I like the idea of a war. Do you think that maybe the war happened maybe hundreds of years ago and now only a few people survive, using things (like the boat) they found to survive. Take this into consideration, what if the people who grew up on the island for generations and generations thought that leaving the island would be 'wrong' and cause them to die?? Similar to that of sailing to the edge of the world, remember we once thought that if we kept sailing we would eventually fall off the planet!!

Eventually, they both created somthing in an attempt to destroy each other. The Science group unleashed a terrible disease upon that of Faith, nearly wiping them out. Those that surivived had some how accuired natural reistance but were destined to carry the diease for the rest of their lives due to the way it was constructed. In revenge, Faith summoned up a sprital monster and urged it to track down and kill non belivers. Unable to escape the island (the faith group had stolen the petrol supply), the scientests hid down into the labortorys, sealing the hatches that lead down, and to work on a invention to wipe the faith group out for good. The faith group on the other hand knew that they were cursed to remain on the island also due the disease (that they regarded has a curse) that they carried being to terrible to realase on 'outsiders'and must be theres to bear alone. They knew that they were cursed, with the diesease, and couldnt destroy the science group because nothing they tried could open the hatches. All hope for them and the war. Their one hope was for a child saviour. The faith group became 'the others', who move around the shodows, whispering amoungst themselves and constanly looking for the child saviour. Esn, I love your theory that the sickness is a weapon of the people of science and that the monster/vision is a weapon of the people of faith. They certainly both fit with each side. Going on from my last comments about leaving the island. Maybe they both had contact with the outside world until the sickness stopped the others from leaving. They had to have consideration for mankind as a whole and couldn't take the disease out into the world. The scientists down the hatch can't leave as they are basically trapped below ground. Question is what supplies have they got down there and how long could they survive down there. They must have access somewhere to get above ground and get food and water I would have thought. I understand your part about the child being the saviour too....very good.

Very good ideas esn and I have always thought that this business of wanting a child is because the child is some sort of saviour!

I agree with the child being a saviour part, I don't think Walt is all to special (or atleast I dont think Walts powers are the reason 'the others' are after him), I think as with many religions that a child has been forseen to be a saviour. Why Walt has powers? Coincidence, maybe..? How does he have powers? Pshht do I know?!!

The Surviours of flight 815

However, there was a third group, those within the inner circle of the society who realised that the solution to the worlds problems lied in combining faith and science. They tried to reunite the two sides, without sucess. They took shelter in the caves, carrying around two stones, one dark, one white to symbolise the bring together of the two sides. Eventually, all but two left the island, with the idea to return once time was right and that everything was in place. Those who left taking with them the other groups only means of getting of the island, knowing that stalemate had been reached. They concluded that only a group of outsiders of exeptional ablities like themselves could bring the two sides together, particaular lead by one of extraordinary ablities combining both faith and science, hence forth, they constucted a vision for both groups, but only the faith group took notice of it. It was intended to say the child would bring the sides together again but was missintrupreded.Not sure about this bit esn. Would a third group leave the island if the sickness was around...unless they wern't infected. Could they tell that somehow? I wonder if they could have transmitted to the outside part of their society about the problems and asked/begged for intervention which resulted in our survivors being brought to the island.

I like this idea of "Adam and Eve" (sorry you answered my question from above, should really have read the whole thing first) trying to unite the two sides. I'm not sure if there would have been a third group though, maybe "Adam and Eve" came from the original group and hated the splitting into two sides? Maybe as has been suggested before they were from opposite sides and fell in love? I really like the idea that "They concluded that only a group of outsiders of exeptional ablities like themselves could bring the two sides together, particaular lead by one of extraordinary ablities combining both faith and science" If the secret society was not only inhabiting the island, but also moving amongst normal society then this could all be a conspiracy set up by them?! I still think Jack's reaction to finding the stones is important and this underlines it for me (sorry esn, I know you're not convinced on this). As a surgeon I'm sure he would have got involved in societies like the Freemasons and so might have recognized the stones.
Bear with me, *engage ramble*. Ok, heres my idea! Take 2 sets of people, remove there memory (when I say remove there memory I mean everything including skills, memories, maybe even languages), place them on the island with 1 object per group, 1 item say...a boat (scientific) the other group you leave them with something religious, say a tablet dipicting a god of some sort. Now, fast foward a few (hundred) years and you have 2 very biased groups, 1 of heavy scientific interlect the other, god worshipers. Now the ultimate game is ready to be played by the 'god' that brought them all to the island (the creators/scientists). They war it out for a while, then the 3rd 'players' are brought to the island, where the island has been evolving at it's own pace, so has the rest of the world. Now you have a group of people, very divided by there beliefs, unsure of god but still believe etc (this is our castaways), a group of scientific people, maybe over the years created the tower to transmit a signal. these people wont even know what a god is! Then there are the religious group, who believe is sacrifices and not only believe in god, but 'know' for a fact he exists! Now who wins, the 2 extreme instances, or our very mixed group....Win what I hear you ask!!!? I dunno! lol

Finding such 'expeptional' people was difficult and concluded that the only way it could be done was for them to bring them into the world themselves has children. Little by little, they gave brith to the new generation, has many has 107 off spring, some were exeptional, some were not and there was no 'special' child amoungst them. However, they knew the timing wasnt right for that yet. They realised for their expetional ablities to take hold, the children must go through a hard childhood. They also knew that similar to the quest for the holy grail, the child must have sinned in order to go through the sprital process of healing and 'making up for stuff' before they could progress and unite the sides. The parents of the society made sure their children had a hard life somehow, weathter it was by means of abandonment or by being harsh, or in an extrem event, making sure they 'died'. However, the socieys influnce was never far away from those who had no parental upbringing and contirvied to make sure that their discions were influnced in order to make sure they each had trials to form their personality defects, which they would have to overcome on the island. These trials also included disabling and making them fight in war and even sending them to them mental insitution. Each one of the survivours was influnced in some way in taking the path that lead to them being on flight 815 to serve the purpose of facing thier past, recovring, passing tests and eventually, with the help of the special child, uniting the two sides. In the second generation, a special child was born,(Walt) brining the numbers of off spring up to 108. From this 108, 70 were selcted to take and survive the flightGood idea esn. I did wonder at one point whether all the survivors were children of the island but no-one really took to it so I kinda forgot it. I consider Locke to have been a first generation of this and Aaron to be the last generation. I think there were many years of experiments.

I'm going to come back to this bit when I've got more time!!

Flight 815 was the special flight designed to ensure that each one of the surivours was made it to the island. Unbeknown to the piliot, it was flown by remote control to and designed to start the tests once in the vicinity of the island. Therefore it was crashed, with the plane dividing in three to sybolise the three groups. The piliot was allowed to survive to symbolise the passing of the torch before being taken. The tail section and the mid sections were on different sides of the island to sybolise the uniting of sides - they would have to unite after trials before uniting science and faith. Lovely idea esn...nothing to add.

I agree!

Some off spring were allowed to surive in order to die at a later time for the greater good and to provide tests for the rest of the surviours. Other tests were layed on the island. The spirt was altered and instead of killing, sought to test the survivours. The survivors were also influnced in thier personalitys so that they would test each other, somtimes even themselves. Other stuff was placed by the society in order to provide a test for the surviours - the plane filled with herione for a herione addict to find was one such test.
Another was that the others would try to take the special one and influcnce him for their purposes - it was up to the surivours to rescue him and help him see the light and unite the sides.good. Do you think they ever met before the island or if their crossing of paths was just implanted memories. I have this theory that none of them have met and that many of their flashbacks are just implanted memories, maybe by the society you mention.

See I think their paths have all crossed at some point. I really, really want the flashbacks to be real and for there to be a kind of six degrees of separation and fate thing going on!
^ same, I think they were all somehow influenced by 'fate' or a 'god' of some type to cross paths


The numbers

During the formative years of the society, they chose a different form of symbolism - numnbers. These were 4 8 15 16 23 42. They were the societies tribal marking, therefore they appeared on within their culture hence why they were used on the door to the hatch.

The numbers were the societys was of communicating to each other. During the recuritment and formative period of the survivours, the numbers take on a greater significance. In order to fit in with the societys rules, it was dictated that each of the numbers should be inflential in the lives of the surivours certain key events should take place around those numbers.

Over 16 years prior to the the events in Lost, some of the society returned to the island to transmitt the numbers from a communication port, in order that a two friends of a future surviour heard the numbers. In turn, they were influnced into passing the numbers on to him, in order to influnce him into using them in some way. Once he had used the numbers,they waited for other things to be in place (16 weeks, what else?) in order to spark his success in the lottery. This success was the signal to start his final countdown to being on flight 815 and the final signal/reminder to the other society members to make sure the other surviours made that flight.Gotta get me head round that one, but sounds plausible.

The numbers were also done to ensure that one of the tests - Danille- was on the island, has they knew about their science crew and her pregancy. They also made sure her crew heard the numbers over the transmission. They also knew that they would become infected with the illness and her baby would be taken from her. This was done to ensure that Danille would be in the state in which the survivours found her, therefore providing another test. She would bne traumatised and desprate to get her child back, hence why she tried to capture Claire and took Arron.So you think Danielle is all part of the plan and not some mishap that has nothing to do with the island. I am more along the lines that she shipwrecked with her crew by accident and that she really has nothing to do with all this. Her crew caught the sickness and her baby was kidnapped. Maybe the others thought she was the rescue party. Maybe they thought she was sent by the society by mistake.

Again I'll come back to this when I've got more time as the numbers really puzzle me. There must be more to them than them just being supposedly "cursed". My favourite theory is that they are the coordinates (negative) of the location of the island.

I still have no clue as to what the numbers mean, how or why they seem to crop up everywhere and why they seem to be (or at least used to be) bad luck!


Previous meetings

To fit in with the traditions of the soceity, to ensure there was a link between the survivours, they were influnced into having their paths cross in someway. This was done by a number of ways actually having them meeting, buying another members CD or having a friend who fought another future survivour in a war. Ah, answers my question further up. Thanks.

Yep I agree with this, as I said above I'm sure their paths have all crossed at certain points in their lives!


The disease

This I am unsure about but I belive it to be unquie and unlike anything else gone before, since it can be carried without actually infecting a person, or can simply infect them depending upon the level of reistance they may have. I think it maybe both physical and pychologcal mainifestations and results in death. Great pain and suffering is given upon those who actually contract it. Perhaps that is why Danielle killed her crew. Maybe she saw what it did to the first vicitm and decided to put the rest of her crew out of their misery when the contracted it. Of course that makes you think it must be pretty bad to consider death a better alternative to enduring the sickness.

Still can't make my mind up about the sickness/disease! Some days I think it is a pyschological thing and other days I think it might be to do with radiation or nuclear testing and then some days I think it might just be all in Dannielle's head!


The Others

The others are essentailly the faith group, has forementioned. The scientests are also another group of others but we are yet to see them. Both Ethan and the boat people are the part of the same tibe, desprate for their childhood saviour. This is why they took Claire and Arron and why Ethan was desprate to get her back. They were whilling to resort to anymeans nesscarry. Initally underestimated the surviours and indeed Claires courge and fighting sprit, hence they were more cautious after Ethans death, therefore they made sure they spied on the group carefully and made plans to ambush the raft.Am I right in thinking that you associate the boat people and Ethan with the others who live above ground and may have the sickness rather than with the scientists in the hatch? If so its a new theory I would have to think more about. Good perspective on it all though.

Again I need more evidence about the "Others" and just can't make my mind up yet. I love Oli G's spot about the twins on the boat and the air steward. Also I noticed in the interview with Josh Holloway that Oli gave us the link to, they refer to the boat people as the Others "minions" - I like this idea that they are working for the "Others"!!

The Polar Bear

This is a manfestation of Walts special powers, of which he has no controll - yet.Aww, now I am wondering if it is in fact a polar bear. There are some black bears that have white fur. A rare breed. I cannot explain how they fit into your theories though. I can't see Walt conjuring bears up out of thin air. They must be on the island for some reason.

I like the theory of them being an other (!!) type of bear, such as a spirit bear as this would explain how they are surviving in that heat. I think Walt does have powers and maybe made that bear appear, but I think the bears were already on the island, he didn't just conjure them up out of nowhere?! Hence Dannielle saying "If we are lucky it's just one of the bears"


The Black rock, the visions and the coffin

This are tools of the society, using their own holographic images and technology to provide a tests for the surivors. Also, in the case of the black rock, it is also there to ensure Danilles surival and Arzts sacrifice.Now I think there are more logical explanations for these. I don't think they are illusions or anything. Its just that we don't know what yet.

I really want these things to be real, like Lissy I don't know what the logical explanations are yet though, although the coffin I genuinly think is Jack's Dads and the body fell from it and may yet turn up?


Lockes Legs

Locke was made to be disabled in order to make him endure hardship before the island. During his transplant opperation, he was fitted with a device that allowed the society to control the use of his legs, in order to test him throught his time on the island. He therefore will lose and regain control of his legs throughout his time to test him and to ensure that those that are supposed to be 'sacfriced' are done so.Hnn, it never really occured to me that it would happen again. But its possible. The question is would Locke surrender everytime to the island just to keep the use of his legs. Would he sacrifice everytime solely for his own benefit. I would like to think that even Locke would draw the line somewhere.

Again I can't decide on this (indecisive aren't I?) and need more evidence. I'm not sure if the Kidney transplant operation was just a ruse to get some type of thing into Locke to control his legs or if his Dad really was that horrid!!
If we are to believe Locke, then one thing can start a chain of events that led them to that day right there right now! lol, I'm still of the opinion we can track back to one point (big bang?) where everything kick started the chain of events for all of them to get on that bleeding flight!!


Few glad thats done! I await your response.

Excellent post esn, I thoroughly enjoyed reading it and replying. It has certainly given new insight into the whole thing.

Excellent ideas esn. As Lissy says it puts a whole new slant on things. Some of the things match up to my theories and some are fresh ones that have give me real food for thought. Thanks for all your hard work!!
Well-freakin-done!