Go  |
New |
Find |
Notify |
|
Reply |
|
Admin |
New PM! |
|
quote: Originally posted by KoR-evo:
I also agree that locking Nathan in the pit was a bit out of order and hasty. I would also lay some of the blame at Libbys door though..as it was her that sew the final seeds that made her take action.
However I feel that when she jumped Goowin she had too..it was pistols at dawn...they both knew that one of them was going to die..it was a cagey old affair at first, i loved the way she drew some info from him before pre-empting his attack..so she didnt quite make the same mistake as Charlie did with Ethan..afterall she had no backup and Goodwin would have killed her had she not taken her chance.
I dont think she despises humanity..i think shes angry..and sometimes anger can manifest itself in many forms and right now it looks like her anger has made her very untrusting. Maybe she's been hurt too many times? maybe she feels that everyone is out to get her and the only way she knows how to deal with it is to pre-empt any possible attack? I do feel that shes got a warm heart..when she saved Emma her pain seemed to unlock..no longer was she wearing that scowl that so often adorns her face..t'was good to see.
With Mr Eko..i dont think he was being rude..ok, it may have come across that way but i felt for the guy..he obviously has something deep rooted in his past that made him shut down like that after he couldnt save those 3 tailes. Maybe like Jack he too has issues with failure..? ..Maybe he lost his wife? [he did seem to infer that something bad had happened in a previous episode]
Couldnt agree more with all of this...! Esp about Mr eko being rude? no way. As for something bad happening, i should imagine even if he was on the plane on his own and he hasnt lost anyone personally, pulling out all the bodies of the water on to the beach could be enough to make you want to mourn for 40days! |
| |
|
|
As you all know, I am a major Shannon fan. Therefore, I thought I should hate Ana Lucia. However, last nights episode made me really warm to Ana Lucia. Yes she is hot headed etc. but I think that most of our main losties would be the same facing that situation. Being a cop she obviously has to face the leadership role as that is what she faces in everyday life, we have seen our other "leader" Jack act similarly. I really liked her concern for the kids and just the general way she led the group. The tailies have experienced more problems involving trust than our main losties. The only thing our losties has had problems with trust is with Boone taking the water, Ethan and Locke. Therefore we cannot really blame any of the tailies for how they acted when they saw Michael, Jin and Sawyer. I also think that anybody would have fired that gun at Shannon, even though it hurts me much to say so.
R.I.P. Shannon, I will love you for always and forever!
#1 Shannon Rutherford Fan Club - Her spirit will live on through us!
Member of A.S.S.
D.O.L. Director of Debates and Disputes - Spreading the word and promoting his image
#7 Gabrielle Solis Fan Club
Runner Up of Lost Season 1 Quiz
|
| |
|
|
quote: With Mr Eko..i dont think he was being rude..ok, it may have come across that way but i felt for the guy..he obviously has something deep rooted in his past that made him shut down like that after he couldnt save those 3 tailes. Maybe like Jack he too has issues with failure..? ..Maybe he lost his wife? [he did seem to infer that something bad had happened in a previous episode]
I find his passivity rather questionable. He clearly disapproves of aspects of Ana Lucia's leadership (i.e. her paranoid sadism) but in general makes only the most token of objections. The preciseness of his 40-day shutdown suggests ritual cleansing rather than a psychotic reaction, and those particular 40 days were a very bad time for him to place such an importance on ritual. I still think Nathan was far too naive and off-guard to be an "Other", although I admit that the ones we saw in "48 Days" - with the possible exception of Goodwin - were not up to Ethan's standard. As for Ana, I admit that she is motivated by paranoia rather than malice, but that does not justify deadly, pre-emptive strikes on even the vaguest of potential threats (as Sayid would no doubt concur). |
| |
|
|
I think 'The Other 48 Days' helps to confirm that Ana isn't evil and that her main vice is extreme paranoia. Doubtless, like Sawyer, she'll turn out to have dire mitigating circumstances that will explain but not necessarily excuse her actions - because I don't think anything can really entirely excuse her being a fairly significant cog in the deaths of both Shannon and Nathan (or her carefree treatment of a dangerously ill man - Sawyer). I think her instinct for self-preservation - except perhaps where kids are concerned - is apt to override her altruistic qualities. We're getting ideas that help us to understand why she's the way she is, but it doesn't make her a nice person. I can pity her now, and I can admire a handful of useful character traits she has, but I still don't like her.
I'm amused to see you, Korevo, pretending you're not watching the E4 episodes, by the way - you do it pretty cleverly! Well done. Good spoiler avoidance.
|
| |
|
|
quote: I find his passivity rather questionable. He clearly disapproves of aspects of Ana Lucia's leadership (i.e. her paranoid sadism) but in general makes only the most token of objections. The preciseness of his 40-day shutdown suggests ritual cleansing rather than a psychotic reaction, and those particular 40 days were a very bad time for him to place such an importance on ritual.
Agreed. His stick waving made it pretty clear that he objected to Ana Lucia's torture of Nathan (Ana/Jack One True Pairing), yet he was capable of doing more to rectify the situation than waving sticks. Had he been less absorbed in cleansing his own conscience, he might've saved a life. I think he's a fascinating character to watch though. Quite contradictory. |
| |
|
|
quote: Originally posted by *sweet pea*: Roco, You were...choke choke...right! I have to admit that my opinion of her has altered a bit and I really warmed to her character last night (especially the way she was with the kids!) Be glad these words are in black and white and savour them as it's not often I will say 'you were right' 
Haha..thanks sweet pea!  ..i knew they wouldnt make her 'all' bad! It would have been a shame for a character [however lovely ] to be that one dimensional. I agree..it was so good seeing this side of her..she really seemed to bond with those kids..espcially the girl..i suppose once you save someones life a bond is instantly struck!? It was also interesting [i felt] how she wanted to keep her promise about getting Emma [and her brother] back to their mum..seems she takes honour seriously.. lol..well i'll make sure i bump this everyday so that i'll see those words and cherise them sweet pea! |
| |
|
|
quote: Haha..thanks sweet pea! ..i knew they wouldnt make her 'all' bad!
Aha! So does that mean you think she was portrayed as 'all bad' up until this episode and therefore you fell in love with the wholly bad version? Tut. I don't think anyone actually expected her to be the sort of person who leaves little kids to drown, by the way. That wasn't a massive surprise or anything - you can be unlikeable without actually burning down orphanages or anything. She just kicks people in their festering wounds a bit. And she has a bit of a pit-torture fetish thing going on. That's all. |
| |
|
|
Well I've loved her from the moment she was introduced to Lost because I just enjoy watching Michelle Rodriguez , ( Ana's actress name ) no matter what her role . But yes , I could see why people didn't take kindly to her . After seeing last nights episode I started enjoying watching Ana Lucia even more ! And she definitely does have a heart !
|
| |
|
|
quote: Originally posted by Murgatroyd: quote: Haha..thanks sweet pea! ..i knew they wouldnt make her 'all' bad!
Aha! So does that mean you think she was portrayed as 'all bad' up until this episode and therefore you fell in love with the wholly bad version? Tut.
hehe..well youve got to take someone for who they are and i accepted Ana for who she was..and that was despite [i admit..through gritted teeth] her not having the most pleasant [outward] nature. However [and it is a big however ]..by 'all' bad i meant that i always believed that they would 'percieve' her in a good light..thats not to say i didnt see that side of her originally..but i dont think it was made apparent on the whole  quote: I don't think anyone actually expected her to be the sort of person who leaves little kids to drown, by the way. That wasn't a massive surprise or anything - you can be unlikeable without actually burning down orphanages or anything.
Teehee! ..true..but she could have just sat there whilst Eko [bless him] didnt know what to do..i think she showned great care and protection towards those kids and her smile at the end when she revived Emma was sheer bliss! It showed that even in traumatic circumstances that one life meant so much to her..almost as if it was personal to AL..which in turn shows that she takes things personal and this can sometimes mean that shes an all of nothing kind of character in terms of her 'warmth' etc. [imo]. quote: She just kicks people in their festering wounds a bit. And she has a bit of a pit-torture fetish thing going on. That's all.
lol..she has a rather sadistic side to her, i give you that..but i feel she isnt the most trusting person. |
| |
|
|
firstly the reson why ecko didnt talk was because he killed a few of the others. although hey were kidnapping people he stil lfelt that he had commited a sin. he must also be christian as he didnt talk for 40 days, which is like jesus' fast through the desert.
Member #23 of C.O.L - Spreading the warning and revealing the fraud
Founder of 'the Gialloblu' - Forza Parma F.C.
Member #07 of The IT Crowd - Doomed never to make it back into normal society
Member #03 of The My Name is Earl Fanclub - Karma is a funny thing
“Why d'ya sing hallelujah, if it means nothing to ya?”
|
| |
|
|
also i dont think that nathan was an other. purely because Goodwin killed him and said that he was not good. also he wanted to go back to the beach where he had previously mentioned they would be rescued from.
Member #23 of C.O.L - Spreading the warning and revealing the fraud
Founder of 'the Gialloblu' - Forza Parma F.C.
Member #07 of The IT Crowd - Doomed never to make it back into normal society
Member #03 of The My Name is Earl Fanclub - Karma is a funny thing
“Why d'ya sing hallelujah, if it means nothing to ya?”
|
| |
|
|
Also, Korevo, you've got to remember I disliked her from her cameo in Exodus on the grounds that she's rude, brash and came onto Jack at the most inappropiate moment imaginable (and licked her fingers - filthy table manners goes onto the list of crimes too). So she could save two dozen kiddies and I'd still be frowning at her.... |
| |
|
|
quote: Originally posted by Paradroid: quote: With Mr Eko..i dont think he was being rude..ok, it may have come across that way but i felt for the guy..he obviously has something deep rooted in his past that made him shut down like that after he couldnt save those 3 tailes. Maybe like Jack he too has issues with failure..? ..Maybe he lost his wife? [he did seem to infer that something bad had happened in a previous episode]
I find his passivity rather questionable. He clearly disapproves of aspects of Ana Lucia's leadership (i.e. her paranoid sadism) but in general makes only the most token of objections. The preciseness of his 40-day shutdown suggests ritual cleansing rather than a psychotic reaction, and those particular 40 days were a very bad time for him to place such an importance on ritual.
True, he does disaprove of some of her tactics and leadership qualities..but i think his 'token gestures' carry great weight..he doesnt need to do anything but give the odd look to let AL know that she's going to far or acting OTT. I think that his mere presence has in fact reigned her in somewhat. I agree that maybe he should have spoken up on certain occasions though..and also his 40 day shut down was rather badly timed but in saying that i feel that [presumably] being a christian, once he saw the bible it was this that helped inspire his 40 day and 40 nights of silence..? quote: I still think Nathan was far too naive and off-guard to be an "Other", although I admit that the ones we saw in "48 Days" - with the possible exception of Goodwin - were not up to Ethan's standard.
I see what you mean..but what about the coincidences..are they just coincidences? [im not so sure they are]: -the name Nathan..very similar to the name 'Ethan'..could he have been called 'Nathan Rom'? -He said he was from Canada..as did Ethan -He was good at hunting..as was Ethan -etc I just feel that he was an Other..though youre probably right. Also..good point you make abut the 'disposable' Others that we saw not being up to the standard of Ethan! [apart from Goodwin] quote: As for Ana, I admit that she is motivated by paranoia rather than malice, but that does not justify deadly, pre-emptive strikes on even the vaguest of potential threats (as Sayid would no doubt concur).
Good point..i like the fact that you recognise or suspect that her paranoia is not borne out of malice. I agree this still does not justify some of her behaviour..i feel that she perhaps should be more trusting..but in saying that i can still see why she's very weary of people. Particualry as she hasnt really got anyone that she can rely on [out of the tailies]..apart from Eko..but then he did go a long while without giving her the emotional support she needed.. |
| |
|
|
I thought they said his name was Ethan at first!! I thought he looked a tad like him as well..... Could he've been their Ethan..  |
| |
|
|
quote: Originally posted by KoR-evo:
I see what you mean..but what about the coincidences..are they just coincidences? [im not so sure they are]:
-the name Nathan..very similar to the name 'Ethan'..could he have been called 'Nathan Rom'?
-He said he was from Canada..as did Ethan
-He was good at hunting..as was Ethan
-etc
Coincidence. And impressive tricks by the writers to make us think Nathan was the infiltrator. I don't think there's any need to make this situation too complicated: an infiltrator and a case of mistaken identity are good dramatic standards. Layer it with too many plot twists and you lose the impact. |
| |
|
|
Perhaps the others sent Ethan in to assume the identity of Nathan, giving him the same sketchy background details. Though Ethan may have either made a mistake or couldnt remember the name right which ultimately led to Hurley finding out there was no "Ethan Rom" on the plane. Also good to see Roco blatently ignoring Ana's serial killer credentials while compiling her defense 
-------------------------------
Member #4815162342 Michael's Orange Shirt Fan Club
A signiture to the anti spolier manifesto
Supporting the A.S.S
|
| |
|
|
quote: Originally posted by Murgatroyd: quote: I find his passivity rather questionable. He clearly disapproves of aspects of Ana Lucia's leadership (i.e. her paranoid sadism) but in general makes only the most token of objections. The preciseness of his 40-day shutdown suggests ritual cleansing rather than a psychotic reaction, and those particular 40 days were a very bad time for him to place such an importance on ritual.
Agreed. His stick waving made it pretty clear that he objected to Ana Lucia's torture of Nathan (Ana/Jack One True Pairing), yet he was capable of doing more to rectify the situation than waving sticks. Had he been less absorbed in cleansing his own conscience, he might've saved a life.
I suppose that depends on whether or not you think Nathan was still another 'Other'. I try but i cant get away from the possibility that he was! In saying that though you make a good point because Eko still gave him fruit, which means that he may have felt that he was innocent maybe? Although Eko is a compassionate man and so maybe he just didnt want to see him starve whether he was an 'Other' or not..? quote: I think he's a fascinating character to watch though. Quite contradictory.
I think this is a great point..and one which i agree with to an extent..because if we take his name..'Eko'..which means "War Camp"..now imo, that is a pretty contradictory name for him to have, considering his great compassion, sprituality etc. I suppose the other side of Eko was however seen when he battered Jin, Mike and Sawyer in Orientation.. ..it seems that whilst he is all of these great and wonderful things..he has a elements in his character which suggest a very troubled background filled with a lot of anger and woe? [maybe] |
| |
|
|
quote: Originally posted by mantis_zero: Perhaps the others sent Ethan in to assume the identity of Nathan, giving him the same sketchy background details. Though Ethan may have either made a mistake or couldnt remember the name right which ultimately led to Hurley finding out there was no "Ethan Rom" on the plane. Also good to see Roco blatently ignoring Ana's serial killer credentials while compiling her defense
I think this is a very much a possibility Mantis! I was thinking something similar but i think you have clarified my thoughts on this 'possibility'. A possibility which however would go against my other idea that Nathan was also an Other..looks like im torn between two possibilities here..lol Hmm..i wonder though..if Nathan was a real passenger..he would have been on the manifest..right? So if thats the case and supposing his name was Nathan Rom..why did Hurley not think that maybe he just misheard his [Ethans] name and therefore not suspect him? ..I think this maybe points to the possibility that Nathan wasnt on the plane either and is therefore also and Other!? ..does that add weight to the theory? |
| |
|
|
quote: Originally posted by mantis_zero: Perhaps the others sent Ethan in to assume the identity of Nathan, giving him the same sketchy background details. Though Ethan may have either made a mistake or couldnt remember the name right which ultimately led to Hurley finding out there was no "Ethan Rom" on the plane. Also good to see Roco blatently ignoring Ana's serial killer credentials while compiling her defense
Ooh! That's an interesting one. Though it does imply that Others knew for sure who was on the 'plane. I'd like to find out what Nathan's second name was. |
| |
|
|
quote: Originally posted by mantis_zero: Also good to see Roco blatently ignoring Ana's serial killer credentials while compiling her defense
LOL..i just think her [somewhat hidden] favouable characteristics outweigh the not so favourable  |
| |
|
|
Some great discussion on here everyone! I will catch up with it all tomorrow!
|
| |
|
|
