So I just thought, how to think Green, that looks interesting, then I realised this the thread I am writing for, so anyway guys, please check my blog and hopefully we can get some discussion going on there... there is a lot to say on the subject, and personally I can't help but feel that our response to this issue is going to be what defines this whole generation.. there is areal crunch point coming soon in terms of the environment and we need to get talking about what we think should happen
I really hoping that people are enjoying the program and the range of characters and views on there. It was a lot of fun to be part of making it, and I can assure viewers it is a genuine attempt by C4 to get a green debate going.. so come and join us, and tell us what you think!
Are we really at a crunch point. Or is the science just confused?
A lot of material kicking around I know. There is no insentive to do anything, other than become a tree hugger and feel smug. In Croatia they give five pence per plastic bottle, metal can. Supermarkets handle the stuff. Every shop is forced to handle the stuff. Thousands of trucks from all over the Balkans cleaned up the various countries in a matter of months. Even dredging the sea and lake beds for the stuff. (5p is a lot of dosh in Croatia and other countries in that area) I stood behind a guy in a supermarket getting paid out 80,000 kunas cash for his truck loads. Queues right round the block of trucks filled with bottles, plastic, cans.
That's the way to do it. Like the show, wish it was longer. (I'd love to see Charlie in there.)
I find that the incentive that works for me is to look at my daughter and son. I want their life to be better than mine, not worse. In fact, most parents work hard to ensure that their children's education is better, life style, etc., so why are we so unbothered about the planet that they will live on.
Originally posted by alsdouble: Are we really at a crunch point. Or is the science just confused?
Well, based on what I hear, I can say there are a couple of big crunch points ahead and its interesting because they are related, one is to do with global warming and the other is to do with what people are calling "Peak oil" - which is to do with the economics of the oil industry. Both of these realities are going to change the way we live dramatically. Basically we have to reduce the amount of CO2 we emit by about 20% each year for the next 30 years - to ab64t 1*% of current levels. its a big ask. But the alternative is that we cause run-away climate change.. which is really not good.. and not what we would wish on anyone, this really has to be avoided at all costs.
But coupled with that oil economics are going to change fast as well, as global demand for oil is already starting to outstrip supply, there is still lots of it left, but we are consuming it faster than it can be supplied. As we dig deeper into the planets remaining oil reserve, the reality is that all the remaining reserves are of a lower quality and harder to extract than what we have had already. We have gobbled up all the easy to extract stuff already. Prices are going to go up. probably by quite a lot and quite soon, 3-5 years is my prediction - based on reading the current books on the subject).
All that really means however is that the sooner we get away from oil and explore the alternatives, the less any of that is a problem. I see it as an era of new opportunities and new priorities, yes its a big change, but civilisation has had to make big changes before.. its no big deal as long as we can stay ahead of the game.
Recycling and rethinking waste is just the first step on a big journey.. It could actually all be for the better, so long as we avoid the major pitfalls along the way.
I'm really enjoying the programme. I was horrified to see how many plastic bottles and tin cans they managed to lift from a landfill site. Do the councils on the mainland not supply homeowners with recycling bins for this type of rubbish? We have 3 bins, one for landfill, one for plastic, paper, and tin and the other for garden waste.
Originally posted by alsdouble: Are we really at a crunch point. Or is the science just confused?
A lot of material kicking around I know. There is no insentive to do anything, other than become a tree hugger and feel smug. In Croatia they give five pence per plastic bottle, metal can. Supermarkets handle the stuff. Every shop is forced to handle the stuff. Thousands of trucks from all over the Balkans cleaned up the various countries in a matter of months. Even dredging the sea and lake beds for the stuff. (5p is a lot of dosh in Croatia and other countries in that area) I stood behind a guy in a supermarket getting paid out 80,000 kunas cash for his truck loads. Queues right round the block of trucks filled with bottles, plastic, cans.
That's the way to do it. Like the show, wish it was longer. (I'd love to see Charlie in there.)
We had incentives in the Uk in the past and they worked. A lot of drinks of all types (fizzy pop, milk, beer etc.) were in returnable glass bottles which kids (like me at the time) took back to the shop and got some money for. The vehicle that delivered the drinks also took back to the company the returned bottles for cleaning and re-using.
It was an efficient system because one vehicle both delivered new drinks and took back returned bottles.
Plastic was introduced for fizzy pop because it was cheaper and the companies did not have to bother with cleaning returned bottles, they just manufactured and forgot about the consequences.
Now we have a problem because of this economic decision made by manufacturers in the past.
If people only knew what plastic is doing to their bodies they would demand it's use be drastically cut and banned completely in the food industry. The information is there on the internet, try googling for it.
I'm beginning to wonder whether we were in fact a lot greener in the seventies, despite the haze!
Since then, plastics use has exploded, the milkman has all but disappeared, and bottle returning schemes are unheard of (apart from our local cider press, which does are rather tasty deal on the empties!).
I was fairly shocked during the floods that so much was thrown out on front lawns. I know things were horrendously dirty, and that some items would have just rotted, but tables and chairs made of metal? Plastic toys? My ceiling and several hundred gallons of water once fell on my TV, but 5 years on it still works!
Originally posted by Lucibee: I'm beginning to wonder whether we were in fact a lot greener in the seventies, despite the haze!
Since then, plastics use has exploded, the milkman has all but disappeared, and bottle returning schemes are unheard of (apart from our local cider press, which does are rather tasty deal on the empties!).
I was fairly shocked during the floods that so much was thrown out on front lawns. I know things were horrendously dirty, and that some items would have just rotted, but tables and chairs made of metal? Plastic toys? My ceiling and several hundred gallons of water once fell on my TV, but 5 years on it still works!
Exactly! Too much money, we live in a throwaway era now, unfortunately.
Originally posted by Lucibee: I'm beginning to wonder whether we were in fact a lot greener in the seventies, despite the haze!
Since then, plastics use has exploded, the milkman has all but disappeared, and bottle returning schemes are unheard of (apart from our local cider press, which does are rather tasty deal on the empties!).
I was fairly shocked during the floods that so much was thrown out on front lawns. I know things were horrendously dirty, and that some items would have just rotted, but tables and chairs made of metal? Plastic toys? My ceiling and several hundred gallons of water once fell on my TV, but 5 years on it still works!
What happened to you was different, the water the floods into people's houses is contaminated with sewerage, it's not just dirty water.
"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my marbles most of all"
Originally posted by Clootie Dumpling: If people only knew what plastic is doing to their bodies they would demand it's use be drastically cut and banned completely in the food industry. The information is there on the internet, try googling for it.
It builds up in the body. Future generations will have to deal with the health aspects of having plastic packaging on our food and drink.
Surprised about the plastic. Worthless. Perhaps as they said on the show some uniform plastic would be more easy to handle. That should be possible.
A number of plastic bottles and other containers do now display "PET", or Polyethylene terephthalate, which is one of the most widely used types of plastic for packaging, and it is very easy to re-process (once it is clean, devoid of any foreign matter, it gets shredded to fine pellets). The only problem is that we still don't yet have any infrastructure for nationwide recycling or a set standards that say all containers should be made of it.
To build on alsdouble's post, such PET markings have been going on in Croatia for years, guided by the spirit of Tito, no doubt.
And thats part of the parcel of where our country has gone wrong - misguided politics, but thats another argument for another forum (and requires the particpants know who John Nash was) - I'll simply explain that his paper (on which Thatcher based her policies) showed that global capitalism could lead to an equal distribution of wealth, however it requires greed amongst the entire population. As we know, greed is the root cause of the environmental problems we now face.
What happened to you was different, the water the floods into people's houses is contaminated with sewerage, it's not just dirty water.
So nothing that a good wash with hot bleachy water wouldn't clean. Or be really green and borrow a steamer to sterilise and clean metal, plastics etc.If there was no insurance and they couldn't get anything to replace the items, believe me, they would find ways to clean and reuse them. I often have to puggle about with drain rods when my pipes and end up with sewage water on my hands.In 35 years of living with ancient pipes and cesspits, I have never been ill despite sewage. I dicovered this great thing called hot soapy water. I wash my hands after I do the rodding. Sewage water isn't clean, but that's not to say that anything which comes into contact with it is forver irrevocable contaminated cos it isn't. Ordinary cleaning will render it safe and reusable. However, this means putting in some effort and phoning the insurance company is a lot less effort.
Personally I'm happy that people are so wasteful as it means that I have a house full of nice furniture, have a wardrobe full of clothes etc all from freecycle, or the recycling centre or the local auction rooms. I could completely furnish a 2 bedroom home from top to bottom with appliances, soft furnishings, towels, bedding, the lot, for about £1000 maxiumum.I never say "no thanks" to anything I'm offered for nothing because even if I have no use for it, I may know someone who has, or if I don't, I shove it in a shed and will eventually find a use for it.I reckon I am the ultimate recycler and always have been.
i think fenwoman has a point, one persons' waste is another persons opportunity.
My mate has just furnished a whole house with furniture from local auctions, at a fraction of the cost of new stuff and frankly a whole lot better than that flat packed mdf rubbish they knock out in those warehouse stores.. creative recycling, I am all for it!
Some of my relatives live in Hull, and they were amazed that some people were forced to throw away items by their insurance companies, even though they were only too happy to keep them and clean them up. The problem is good 'ol Health & Safety and our liability culture. No insurance company would want the risk of being held to account later on if somebody fell ill from contaminated items, if they had said it would be ok for them to keep it and clean it up.
The thing is furniture is one thing, but some goods are not designed to be repaired. So it isn't going to be re-used it will end up in landfill. Plastic is the worst, complex clip together designs that just break up if you try and take them apart.
It maybe clever design and cheap to manufacture plastic products, but you can't beat old fashioned metal, bolts and screws etc. for ease of maintenance and longevity.
It appears to me that this whole thing of recycling etc etc is aimed at the wrong people, if there Really is a problem, surely it would be better to stop the mindless (no Sorry, money motivated) production of tat and clutter from multi million pound businesses from manufacturing the stuff in the first place. One example highlighted in tonights program, DISPOSABLE nappies.... when I was a child there were ten children in our family, my mam used Terry Nappies (Made from Natural and Recycleable cotton, oh and Washable.... for those who don't know) all the household rubbish was burned on the back of the fire and all the dustmen took each week were a bin full of ashes, THAT is why they were called DUSTMEN. Milk was delivered in Glass bottles which were collected, washed and reused many times over. We went to the shop and were served by human beings, we bought things loose and they were wrapped in paper bags, fruit and veg looked as if it had grown naturally and LOCALLY not from the other side of the globe... this actually kept people (who weren't afraid of working) in a job, (they had to be in a job 'cos there wasn't all the benefits there are today) People allways said we were poor, but I think people were a lot happier then (they didn't have to always look over their shoulder in fear of muggers or hope they didn't get burgled, it didn't happen that often cos nobody had anything worth pinching. I could go on.... I'm sure you see my point... Pete
Surprised about the plastic. Worthless. Perhaps as they said on the show some uniform plastic would be more easy to handle. That should be possible.
greed is the root cause of the environmental problems we now face.
I totally agree with this comment and further think that it also applies to the very ideas and motives behind the latest recycling fads. Why? because everybody including all the big manufacturers, want to jump on the bandwaggon... What's the saying? "we have to be seen to be green" If that's the case they should proove it by their actions and stop producing the rubbish in the first place....
Ok, I know it's in the rules to not advertise, especially if it is something that has come about from the other side but the people from "It's not easy being green" set up a forum, which now contains lots of useful information on green issues. Stick it in your favourate search engine, it's easy to find.
If channel 4 want to throw me off this forum, then that is up to them, but I hope they don't as it wouldn't be a very green thing to do. Besides, I found out about, and watched the show because of said forum.
