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Posted
Right...

Starters - im not going to take credit for this!

Basically, i was browsing on this site i go on reguarly and i was looking for a quote from Lost....so anyway...i see a thread saying that Charlie will be fine so i have to take peek right...and this is what this guy has put as his thoery:

"All the characters stories are on a loop. They have been running/living the same loop for who knows how long and how many times. Maybe hundreds. Don't ask me why, I was never good at science. The whole point to their madness is to figure out they are on a loop so that everyone doesn't make the same mistakes. Hence Jack's crappy future life for example. Locke is figuring this out, Ben knows this. That is why they do things that seem bad but really aren't. Like locke killing Naomi. Locke tried to stop Jack from getting them rescued because they are not supposed to, or at least not rescued yet or at that certain way or time. That's why flash forward Jack wants to go back, he knows they made another mistake, which is why he tells Kate "he is tired of lying!" Desmond's flashes are memories from all the times they have gone through the loop and all the mistakes they have made, except now he is remembering them ever since he turned the key and blew up the hatch and now he is trying to prevent these flashes. Every flash he has had of Charlie's death have been past loops that have gone wrong. Next season they will most likely go back to this moment again and he will prevent Charlie from drowning aswell, like one of those choose your own adventure books....plus if you haven't figured it out yet, it was Charlie that programed the code in the looking glass in first place since it was programed by a musician...all this happened on a past loop. A loop we have not seen yet, but am sure will see in the future. Which means Charlie will be back next season when they repeat the loop again. Yes Charlie is dead....he did die. So DM and the writers did not lie. But, they did also say that the reference to death on the show LOST should be interpreted in a way that the audience is not expecting. When they repeat the loop again, they will have to make different choices.

In the end each character will have to go through the loop until they realize what they are meant to know, they will eventually never get on the plane in the first place, and none of the castaways will ever meet each other in their lives even though their paths have crossed over so many times before. Which is what causes that moment between two people who have never met but feel like they are connected in a way they can never explain."


- Dont blame me if that doesnt make sense Razz

IF that is true...then good news for Charlie!! yaaaay lol Big Grin

Anyhooo....what does everyone think?


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Wow.....
 
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Erm That Was... Long and Complicated But Interesting
 
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It's called a Temporal Causality Loop.
They repeat their lives over and over again until they make the right choices and everything returns to normal. Kinda like Groundhog Day, or an episode of Star Trek called Cause and Effect.
Deja Vu will set in really soon and people will remember doing things on the island before and then things will pan out.


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This also links in nicely with Stephen King's 'Dark Tower' opus (several links to King in Lost: book club reading Carrie, telekenesis/ Jacob, Jack's newspaper clipping having references to the Dark Tower (see Lostpedia) and now JJ Abrams is scripting the Dark Tower).

You could be onto something here! Good work! Cool



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also that was kind of how the matrix was explained at the end , neo had been in a loop thousands of times living the same life but making different choices
 
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Wow that was a brilliant theory !! Even though it was slightly long.. it did make sense. If this theory is true, then it would explain why the 'others' claimed Locke had to kill his dad - so him and sawyer would have never met him in the first place..


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hmmm i like it, desmond obviously being the central character and in control of everyone's fate.

It reminds me of 'the butterfly effect'.......very cool film IMHO





 
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Thanks for all your feedback guys Big Grin

It is an interesting thoery....a thoery that we might all want the outcome to be in the end?

Also, if it is true and is the case for Charlie...do you think that Shannon, Boone, Ana Lucia, Libby, Eko etc will be alive again/come back?


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I wouldnt mind seeing eko return (fantastic character). He may ask for forgiveness to yemi next time around and the BSM wont lay the smackdown on him.

I hope we see some time travelling by desmond because it would make sense now that they have introduced this storyline.





 
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quote:
Originally posted by dan5773:
This also links in nicely with Stephen King's 'Dark Tower' opus (several links to King in Lost: book club reading Carrie, telekenesis/ Jacob, Jack's newspaper clipping having references to the Dark Tower (see Lostpedia) and now JJ Abrams is scripting the Dark Tower).

You could be onto something here! Good work! Cool


hehe thanks Big Grin but as much as i like to take credit it for that, like i said at the beginning...i couldnt.

Hell, i can barely remember my own name and age during the day...let alone coming up with something as good as that Wink


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I really like that theory...that's very very clever and I could definitely see that working. Even if it wasn't their original plan I can't help but wonder if the writers read all these forums for ideas!

I know that sounds silly but I've read a lot of theorys and then they have happened in the last season....ooh.

I can't believe we have to wait so long. Frown


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quote:
It's called a Temporal Causality Loop.


Great theory! Big Grin I saw this elsewhere too... Ninja

Sorta fits in with the whole parrallel universerve space time continuum thang too Wink


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Thought I would place this here too from my dharma initiative space time continuum thread...VERY RELEVANT...

I love the LOOP Theory:

Everything that's happened on LOST has happened before. Not only once, but numerous times. Everything that happens on the island culminates in something I'll refer to as 'the event'. This will be the climax - the end of LOST. But it will also be the beginning.

We all know the island is special. It's exhibited powers of healing, longevity, and suggestive manifestation. We've also seen numerous nods at time anomalies that may or may not be related to its unusual magnetic properties. The island speaks to select people. It has a consciousness all it's own, and as the series progresses, seems to have an agenda as well.

As I've said before, I believe the island is a sticky ball rolling through time and space, picking up objects and people along the way. The Black Rock, flight 815, Desmond's boat - these things have collided with the island's snowball-like path. Total coincidence? No. The island definitely seems to have some influence on who and what it brings in. It has an ultimate goal, which is to accomplish some task at the end of the show (again, the event). But there are also people who have found the island (Hanso, DHARMA, Naomi's people) on their own by looking for it, and have brought people to the island that are not necessary to its master plan. Perhaps the island allowed some of this to happen in order to gain a required asset (Ben), but the rest of the inhabitants are unnecessary and are subsequently 'purged'.

There's evidence on the island of at least three century's worth of history. Aside from the 21st century crash of flight 815 we have the Black Rock's 19th century wreckage, improbably landlocked inland. Many of the Others sport WWII-style weaponry (M1 Garand, Luger PO8, Goodwin's knife, etc...) as well as the odd fact that all employees of Oceanic airlines wear WWII airman's pilot wings (flight 815's pilot, all the stewardesses, and even the stewardess in Jack's flash forward are wearing these). Richard's garb during Ben's flashback also suggests that inhabitants landed on the island from an even older era, not to mention the 4-toed statue and assorted ruins from who knows when.

Roughly theorizing the sequence of events on the island is hard to do. We've been given small glimpses into the past that don't show much in the way of detail. Historically I'd guess that Hanso found the island and recognized that it was special. He somehow found a way to consistently gain access to it, maybe even temporarily holding it in place with the electromagnet. He brought DHARMA in as a beard while he worked to unlock its deeper secrets. DHARMA's work was the superficial skin that covered his true goal (whatever that was), as we have only to glance at the operation to see that everything DHARMA did was largely *beep*

The locals/hostiles on the island have been there for a long time (I think Richard's "very, very patient" speech not only applied to Ben but also to his own group). They co-existed with DHARMA until they could no longer stand by watching the purity of the island compromised... or until the island told them to act. Richard finding Ben in the jungle was an important event - important enough to make them wait until Ben was old enough to be assimilated into their group. At this point Ben betrayed DHARMA and was instrumental in executing the purge, perhaps even providing the codes to the sonic fence. Recognized as special in much the same way Walt was, Ben became their leader. Perhaps this was through Richard's doing, but more likely it was through the orders of a higher authority - Jacob.

Alright, now here's where it gets sticky...

I'm inclined to think the island rests upon some sort of temporal faultline. If you don't like the word temporal, think of it as resting on a nexus for all possible timelines. LOTS of timelines. I think the island can slip in and out of these mirrored universes, which is why sometimes it can be seen and other times it cannot. Charlie's "Where are we?" and Ben's "God can't see this place" are hints toward this. While the island keeps moving things are constantly changing. It's nearly impossible to find. Hurley's radio picks up songs from the past, Desmond's boat keeps floating back to the island no matter which direction he sails in.

On an even more surreal level, I think this explains the subtle differences in scenery and props that everyone's been pointing out since the show started. The "these are only set errors!" argument grows weaker lately, as the entire contents of Ben's fridge rearrange themselves, clocks skip hours ahead in mere seconds, and stickers like "I was here moments ago" get slapped on Charlie's guitar. Yeah, they could still be inconsistency errors. They could even be the producers having fun with us. But in the end, I think they're significant. As we've been told: "Everything changes".

You come home from work and throw your keys on the counter. You could've thrown them on the kitchen table, but you didn't. Maybe there's a universe where you DID throw them on the kitchen table. Maybe there's even a universe where you snap your key off in the lock and call a locksmith who runs down a squirrel on the way to your house, and that universe goes on without that squirrel in it. Silly example, but that's the idea.

And as for the flashbacks, I think they change too. I'm not saying they're completely false, but I am saying the island has a definite hand in them. It certainly has a hand in their dreams and visions (Eko, Boone, Locke, Charlie, the list goes on and on...), so why not the flashbacks too? Items, paintings, numbers, photos... are we to believe that all of these things are just naturally woven so tightly and repetitively through flashbacks of people who have supposedly never met? Not to mention the characters themselves, who have been defying all laws of mathematical coincidence by popping in and out of each other's 'flashbacks' since day one. Could it really be that Desmond's microwave sounds EXACTLY like the Swan's countdown timer? Hell no. I think the island's ability to screw with the flashbacks is limited to the things it knows. This is why the geiger counter from the swan hatch shows up in Locks's apartment during his flashback. This is why everyone's drinking McCutcheon's whiskey. This is why so many people LOOK like so many others, from the woman Jack saved from the burning car to the mugger Charlie faced in the alley - the island has a finite wellspring of knowledge (memories?) from which to draw from.

As most of you already know, I believe the island has the ability to manifest the thoughts, beliefs, or fears of its inhabitants. Jack's dad and Kate's horse are subconscious examples of this, but conscious belief and true faith seem to enhance this ability. Locke can hunt, track, and throws knives like a circus performer because he firmly believes that he can. When he teaches Walt to do this, he tells him to "see it in his mind's eye". Once he does, Walt can throw knives too - on this island it would seem that faith prevails over science. This is why the children are taken by the Others. Children believe blindly in monsters and superheros and all manner of things, and this makes their creative minds the most dangerous. From what we've seen of Emma and Zack lately, they seem placid and almost brainwashed. The Others have brought them to a 'better place' - a controlled environment.

Suggestive manifestation aside, certain characters have exhibited more pronounced abilities. Walt for example, was doing these things off island. His ties with the island were TOO powerful, which may be why Ben let him go. Richard recognized young Ben's vision of his dead mother, making him very desirable. And Locke's kinship with the island began the moment he arrived... and walked away from the plane crash on two good legs. These 'gifted' people are important to the island in that they'll be instrumental in achieving the ultimate goal. They are children of the island, and it speaks to them and through them. Leaving before the goal is realized is not an option; think about how Locke struck Sayid to prevent him from locating the radio in early season one. Even way back then he knew they weren't supposed to go home. And when Alex asks Ben why he doesn't just let the 815'ers leave, he very frustratedly responds with "Because I can't". There's obviously something that needs to happen first.

My theory is that LOST is a big multi-act play. The island is the stage, and everyone on it are the players. This play is different however, because every time the curtain goes up - the story itself changes. There are smaller parts and larger ones, but most everything and everyone are there FOR A REASON. Some characters are more crucial than others, and this is where Jacob's list comes in. The 'good' ones are vital to the end game. And then finally there are the island's few chosen sons/daughters who have the ability to manipulate the storyline as the play progresses, and these are the most important players of all.

But of all the ways for the story to play out, I'm betting there is only one 'correct' way. There is something that must happen (or not happen) which will be revealed to us at the end of LOST. This is the ultimate goal. This is the reason the 815'ers have been brought to the island, and this is what Ben and Jacob are trying to accomplish - time and time again. Because once something happens on the island to make the end goal impossible (i.e. Naomi's people coming to 'rescue' them), that timeline is shot. That particular play ends tragically, as seen in Jack's flashforward. That reality is now a dead end.

However, the game is not over. Because every time that happens there's the opportunity for a fresh start. Nakedness and rebirth. Desmond and Mikhail. Everything is stuck in a loop, from Rousseau's radio message to the currents around the island bringing the boat and the raft back to its shores. "It'll come back around". "We all have a fresh start". "See you in another life". Not the next life mind you, but another one. Different timelines, different actions. So many things point to this. The skeletons, for one. We've long theorized who Jack and Jill will turn out to be, clutching the black and white stones, almost as if we expect a loop. Will Ben turn out to be Aaron? Is the musician who programmed the jamming code in the Looking Glass really just another version of Charlie? How many times has the play LOST been run? Hundreds? Thousands? When does it end?

I think it can only end when the ultimate goal is achieved. The island is attempting to guide the players along to that end goal, enlightening certain people as to what needs to be done. Ben and Locke are examples. All throughout the show they've 'known' things. "You're not supposed to do this" or "This isn't the way this is supposed to happen". How else could Ben be so far ahead of everything that's happening... unless he's seen the same things happen before? Whether Jacob's given him a heads up or whether he's actually seen this stuff firsthand doesn't really matter. What matters is he knows.

So now put yourself in Ben's shoes for a minute. You know all this stuff, but you can't tell anyone because the very act of enlightening them might change the things they're about to do. And would they believe you anyway? Probably not. Which is why you need to trick and nudge people into doing the 'right' things. You need them to want to want to do these things, and moreover, to think they themselves chose to do them. You have a list of select people who are destined to accomplish certain tasks at certain times, but then you've got other wild card characters who you cannot control, spinning things in different directions. Every time something 'wrong' happens you've got to implement damage control - you've got to make moves to get things back on track. You're the master of a giant chessgame, but you only control some of the pieces. And you can only make certain moves: Michael: "Why don't you go get them yourself?" Klugh: "It doesn't work that way".

You have to lie to people all of the time, even your own people. You have incredible knowledge that you cannot share, and this gets very lonely. It also sucks because since everything is running according to someone else's design, you have nothing all your own - in a way, you're a pawn in your own chess game. So you try to make some things all your own - just for you. Raising Alex, for example. Maybe you initiate a fertility project. These things are for your own benefit, yet in the grand scheme of things they end up screwing up the master plan. The small, seemingly harmless deviations you make cause Doppler-like ripples that effect the end game, which in turn causes Jacob to turn his back on you and look for a new champion.

"History is about to repeat itself, right here, right now". These are Ben's words to Jack during the finale. At this point he knows he's about to fail, that he's blown another run at the whole thing. Locke knows too, desperately trying to stop Jack by telling him "This will be your last chance". But the call gets made, and the jig is up. Ben's head sinks. Locke slumps off into the jungle, knowing there's nothing more to be done.

Whenever this happens, whenever the island reaches another point of no return, I believe it sideslips timelines or realities. It re-enters a point at which the task can still be accomplished again, and the slate is wiped clean. Tabula Rasa. A new beginning. Knowledge of past errors is retained and passed on, so that certain mistakes aren't made again - yet different mistakes are inevitable. Maybe this happened, even partially, when Desmond turned the failsafe key. Being at the epicenter of that disaster would explain his brief trip to what sure looked like an alternate timeline. It would also explain his flashes of future events. Desmond is seeing things that have happened before, and is actually able to change them. This is where Ms. Hawking comes in.

Ms. Hawking's assertion that Desmond cannot change the future turns out to be wrong. Does Charlie die? Sure, but Desmond is able to keep him alive long enough to perform a very crucial task that Charlie, and Charlie only, could perform. With Greta and Bonnie dead, Charlie was the only person able to flip the jamming switch - once and for all proving that destiny is not set in stone. It's more like a river whose course is constantly changing. Hawking desperately wanted to convince Desmond otherwise, which seems to be consistent with the island's interests of keeping this knowledge from everyone.

As for Jacob, I love the idea that he's really one of LOST's main characters (Locke, Desmond, ?) trapped in a place between worlds. Maybe he was in the wrong place at the wrong time during one of the slips I mentioned. I definitely don't think Jacob exists within the realm of the current timeline, which is why he can't easily be seen. Only those open enough to the island's inner workings can visualize the man trapped between worlds, stuck in a timeless limbo from which he cannot escape. Jacob isn't without power, but his powers are limited (and may be further limited by Ben's volcanic circle of ash). I think he might be influencing the flashbacks and could definitely be responsible for the dreams and visions.

Jacob may even be the smoke monster. This idea makes sense in that he'd certainly kill the pilot for trying to communicate off-island, and that he'd judge and 'scan' Locke and Eko looking for people to help his cause. When dragging Locke into that hole during the season one finale Locke knew he'd "be alright" because this was more of a forceable request for an audience with Jacob than a physical attack. As Ben said "This isn't a man you go to see - you are summoned by him".

What I'm still really not sure about are the whispers. One thing we do know is that they resemble a running commentary of current events, meaning that whoever is behind them can actually see what's going on. There's even a mention of a 'scope' at one point. Another spooky fact is that the whispers often seem to resemble LOST's existing characters, both live and dead. Boone's "Hi sis!" (as Shannon appears) came about after his death, with the words "dying sucks" mouthed in the same scene. We also hear "Relax dude", which could undoubtedly be Hurley, and Frank Duckett's voice distinctly tells us "It'll come back around".

Definite facts about the whispers: they seem to be trying to help. They also seem very afraid of being seen or discovered, which would apparently "ruin everything". If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the whispers might be LOST's characters watching themselves run through the ever-looping course of events on the island. Whether they're from some other parallel timeline/reality, or from a world beyond... I have no clue. I'm open to ideas.

Okay... if you've gotten this far, go one extra step. I've never been a Star Trek guy, but go out and find the ST Next Generation episode called "Cause and Effect". Watch it, or read a synopsis of it. If you agree with some of the things I've said above, the similarities of this episode will blow your head apart - right down to the whispers. And even if you don't agree, it was still a pretty kickass episode - even for non Star Trek fans.

Well, that's it. I'll finish by saying I don't think we'll see too much more of Jack's flashforward timeline stuff. Some, but not much. I believe that's a timeline that won't come to fruition (in terms of the current timeline) because something will probably be done (on island) to change it. I think we're going to see the big event at the end, which is perhaps the point at which Jacob got stuck. That's the purpose of LOST, the reason everything loops back. Whatever happens there, it's got to be a complete jaw-dropping *beep* LOST can't finish with a tearful rescue and some sad music. There won't be a hand-holding walk-into-the-sunset type of ending. The show will definitely conclude the same way it began - with chaos and upheaval and maybe even a plane crash.


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Zoanthropy = the delusion that one is an animal Wink

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I read it all again, without blinking!

Disappointed Disappointed Disappointed Disappointed Disappointed



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Babz have you read this yet?


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Word On The Street I am in love
Zoanthropy = the delusion that one is an animal Wink

29th August = Doomsday...will be on Lostpedia as The Black Horse come find me Devil

we have our own social group there now ... join up...Channel 4 Lost Forum members
 
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babz?


,,,.,
=Ninja= NINJA CAT

Word On The Street I am in love
Zoanthropy = the delusion that one is an animal Wink

29th August = Doomsday...will be on Lostpedia as The Black Horse come find me Devil

we have our own social group there now ... join up...Channel 4 Lost Forum members
 
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BBBBBAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZ????? Crying



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she's gone again


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Word On The Street I am in love
Zoanthropy = the delusion that one is an animal Wink

29th August = Doomsday...will be on Lostpedia as The Black Horse come find me Devil

we have our own social group there now ... join up...Channel 4 Lost Forum members
 
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