I found Clapham Junction to be both an amazing piece of drama and utterly shocking in it's portayal of homophobia.

Drama such as this should be shown in secondary schools with other dramas of its kind. I admit some of the more explicit sexual elements should be removed but the message is there without it having to be spoonfed. Perhaps "shock" tactics like these would educate our more misaligned youngsters into behaving in a socially acceptable way when older.

Sorry but I couldn't disagree with you more. Why put these steriotypical ideas into teenagers heads?

Show it in school, huh? And see the cases of gay teenage suicides rocket?? Great idea

I think it is very unfair to treat younger people as stupid. The show is a 'drama' - and I'm sure they would see it as such. A drama is supposed to be 'dramatic'.

If a young person is coming to realise he/she may be gay - I'm sure there curiosity would not start and stop at one television programme. The internet is a wonderful and accessible thing in this day and age for youngster to educate themselves - which I'm sure most of them would do rather than discussing it with someone else first.

I wasn't advocating a cold screening. I know when we watched something very sensitive in school it would be followed by a period of intense discussion where others could air their views and debate the issues raised. And I did mention screening other dramas of it's kind alongside it - for eg. racism, sexism, ageism etc ...

It seems no matter what image of gay person is shown on screen it is immediately panned as a 'stereotype'. I thought the characters worked very well ... and I certainly see people I know in every single one of the characters. It's real life - why shield it from nearly mature teenagers? The drama is not saying every single gay man acts in the same way as these characters. Indeed I found quite a nice mixture of different characters in there.

It seems the only way to achieve a non-stereotypical character is to make everyone happy and include a bit of "them" in it. i.e. A person who embodies every single aspect of gay life. But then you have a problem - would that not equate to another "stereotype" ... yes! and it wouldn't be very realistic either - and the drama would lose it's punch somewhat.

I don't believe gay teenage suicide rates would rocket given what I have said above ... but that's my own personal opinion - and I certainly can't back it up with anything. But then again, neither did you.

If teenagers already have access to the internet as you say then what is the need for showing a class *that* programme which was screened on Sunday?? If anything it will make the homophobes in the class even more gay-hating than they were before. I repeat, there was nothing positive in Clapham Junction at all. Absolutely nothing.

quote:

explicit sexual elements should be removed

Then why remove some of the sexual element which can also be accessed on the internet by mature teenagers it doesnt make sense thats the integral part.

Kevin Eylot writes about what it means to be gay: "one of the things that is sort of prodding us onwards is a very primal urge - which is wanting to sodomise each other".

I think that explains pretty much everything that we saw on screen on Sunday. The guy has a one-track mind.

quote:

Originally posted by dilzaaa:
I think it is very unfair to treat younger people as stupid. The show is a 'drama' - and I'm sure they would see it as such. A drama is supposed to be 'dramatic'.

If a young person is coming to realise he/she may be gay - I'm sure there curiosity would not start and stop at one television programme. The internet is a wonderful and accessible thing in this day and age for youngster to educate themselves - which I'm sure most of them would do rather than discussing it with someone else first.

I wasn't advocating a cold screening. I know when we watched something very sensitive in school it would be followed by a period of intense discussion where others could air their views and debate the issues raised. And I did mention screening other dramas of it's kind alongside it - for eg. racism, sexism, ageism etc ...

It seems no matter what image of gay person is shown on screen it is immediately panned as a 'stereotype'. I thought the characters worked very well ... and I certainly see people I know in every single one of the characters. It's real life - why shield it from nearly mature teenagers? The drama is not saying every single gay man acts in the same way as these characters. Indeed I found quite a nice mixture of different characters in there.

It seems the only way to achieve a non-stereotypical character is to make everyone happy and include a bit of "them" in it. i.e. A person who embodies every single aspect of gay life. But then you have a problem - would that not equate to another "stereotype" ... yes! and it wouldn't be very realistic either - and the drama would lose it's punch somewhat.

I don't believe gay teenage suicide rates would rocket given what I have said above ... but that's my own personal opinion - and I certainly can't back it up with anything. But then again, neither did you.

quote:

explicit sexual elements should be removed

Then why remove some of the sexual element which can also be accessed on the internet by mature teenagers it doesnt make sense thats the integral part. I too think it is very unfair to treat younger people as stupid.

I doubt homophobes scour the internet looking for advice that will prevent them from beating up gay people. As my opening post demonstrates, it is the "homophobe" that I really wanted to target in this way. The characters may be flawed in some way in this production (like real life) but the emotional attachment is there for the viewer to identify with - and therefore be moved by consequences at the conclusion.

Again - and this is my own opinion - homophobes 'hate'. I'm guessing most of them aren't murderers. If they can empathise with those characters - because they see other things that are similar to themselves - it might make them question their personal stance on gays. I can certainly empathise with straight characters on television whose lifestyle bears absolutely no resemblance to my own, so do not think it is totally beyond a straight person to empathise with a gay character.

I doubt if Clapham Junction could be shown in schools without the explicit sexual scenes intact.

I'm not saying cut them completely, just make them a bit more 'teacher' friendly.

Sorry that should have read 'with the ...'.

It appears I can't edit my own posts. D'oh.

So you think that by showing homophobes 'Clapham Junction' they'll start to empathise and hate less??

I don't see anything wrong with my reasoning.

From personal experience of being a teenager at some point I can remember having very strong opinions on certain topics - which I suppose is part of being a teenager. However, I don't think it isn't too late at that age to influence them.

Otherwise, why do they drive for sex education, drugs education at this age?

quote:

Originally posted by dilzaaa:
I don't see anything wrong with my reasoning.

From personal experience of being a teenager at some point I can remember having very strong opinions on certain topics - which I suppose is part of being a teenager. However, I don't think it isn't too late at that age to influence them.

Otherwise, why do they drive for sex education, drugs education at this age?

Oh well. We'll have to agree to differ as I can't think of a more negative portrayal of homosexuality than the one I saw on TV the other night.

Negative portrayal or otherwise - it does seem to have the positive upside of encouraging discussion about the topic.

I don't think it was a negative portrayal of homosexuality, but I do think some aspects of the characters behaviour could be seen as negative. And there are of course the negative aspects of some of the straight characters in that piece. It is not representative of the whole. And I don't think it was ever intended to be in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by Ennis Del_Mar:
Show it in school, huh? And see the cases of gay teenage suicides rocket?? Great idea

Again, I agree with you 100% Ennis Del_Mar!

Although 'thought provoking' to some degree, this drama absolutly 'should not' be shown to young people in schools as it is not by any means a balanced and fair representation of what it is like to be a gay person in Britain today.

In fact I don't think anyone can really box a whole group within society in a one off drama that may be seen to suggest that the experiences that the charactors have had are the same for all gay men!

Apart from anything else, as so many people here keep reminding me, that apparently 'this drama was not supposed to be about tackling homophobia' and indeed....that it definatly did not do!

I think my young 15 year old son would be horrified to think that this kind of drama may be shown in schools and I think if anything it would by far justify to small minded bigots about the opinions they already have of how they think 'all' gay men behave.

Just to clarify, no, young people are by no means stupid but they are impressionable and they will not be inclined to 'look at the deeper issues' that, according to some, this programme had to offer.

Young people are inclined to make hasty judements, and anywa, I would think that 99% would not even know anything about gay history, by history I mean in terms of why some men in the past had no other choice but to find comfort with strangers in dark places for fear of reprisal and imprisonment.

Most would not be able to sympathise or find compassion or understanding about such issues, I don't even think alot of adults would to be honest!

Even if it was say hetrosexual couples having sex in toilets and such places I still think most peole would find this hard to understand. It's like say 'dogging' I mean, I don't judge people for living the lives they want, but I don't get what the attraction is in such things!...and I don't think many young adolescents would!

Anyway, this kind of drama just would'nt be allowed to be shown even if it were about straight men!

As an organisation called Parent Pride we are proud to say that we are currantly working constructively and jointly with our local council, schools, youth clubs and the police constabulary to put together anti homophobic polices in our local schools.

We have already secured funds to have Anti Homophobic bullying posters made and distributed in our local schools and colleges!

We are also looking into putting together a training programme that can be brought into schools to raise awareness around sexual orintation and homophobic bullying.

Overall we wish to make sure that schools have a clear and strict policy toward homophobic bullying and that polices are set in place in order to support young gay people within the education system.

Why not find out what, if any, the policies are in reagrds to homophobic bullying in your local schools? And ask them what support they have in place for their pupils who identify as gay?

If you feel strongly that homophobia should be addressed then why not do something constructive and take a pro active stance on the issue....you have a right to know about such certain govermental type information because you now have the 'freedom to information act' in place, which makes it possible to find out even things like...let me think, like what a hospitals policy is on bed allocation, which might be important if your needing an Op of some sort!! lol!

Come on...be pro active and stand up for what you belive in!!

Hmmm,

While I definitely do think it was a worthwhile drama and has sparked off debate, I'm not sure it's the sort of programme suitable for schools. Looking back to when I was that age most of them were extremely immature and I'm not sure they would appreciate the issues portrayed, or would be able to intelligently discuss the how's and why's.

I'd have to agree with some of the nay sayers on the board that for children coming of age this isn't an appropriate programme. I personally viewed it as a programme for adults, which explored the affect society's intolerence has on gay people.

Maybe in sixth form college or uni...

I teach in a sixth form college & yeah, it'd be more appropriate there (although I'm forever challenging my students on thier pejorative use of the word 'gay'..at 18!!)

oops..their!

quote:

Originally posted by dilzaaa:
I doubt if Clapham Junction could be shown in schools without the explicit sexual scenes intact.

I'm not saying cut them completely, just make them a bit more 'teacher' friendly.

Well if your a teacher you should be able to deal with looking at a penis and such like its an adult theme if your going to show the film show it in it's entirerity it if anything is going to open up further debate surely.

quote:

Originally posted by The Art Teacher:
I teach in a sixth form college & yeah, it'd be more appropriate there (although I'm forever challenging my students on thier pejorative use of the word 'gay'..at 18!!)

God! That really irks me.

People can call me what they like, p00f, qu££r etc. But how so many people pejoratively use the word "gay", and they do it SOOOO often too. Really pisses me off.

It's no use showing bits you dont like thats censorship and theres nothing wrong with looking at nudity in the context of the film.

Obviously if the teacher is not happy with the subject it's going to rub off.

quote:

Originally posted by swin:

quote:

Originally posted by The Art Teacher:
I teach in a sixth form college & yeah, it'd be more appropriate there (although I'm forever challenging my students on thier pejorative use of the word 'gay'..at 18!!)

God! That really irks me.

People can call me what they like, p00f, qu££r etc. But how so many people pejoratively use the word "gay", and they do it SOOOO often too. Really pisses me off.

Well they're allowed to now as the BBC says it's okay