This is a thread that featured on the BBC History Hub messageboard.
Message 1 - posted by Jack Hobbs (U1949096) **, 4 Days Ago
......bla bla bla......................and then - so it was that the old pre-Hispanic magical Aztec World of Gods, and prophecy, collided with the material World...................(Spaniards turned up)!!!
Off goes tele.......
Using an element of public 'belief' of what constitutes a good life (i.e. pre-industrial rural equality), to associate with another place, in another time, as an Earthly utopia full of magical atmosphere, stratosphere, stars, colour, prophecy and probably no gravity. All meant as a serious piece of history (documentary).
Nice one. Certainly WOWED ME!!!!!
Message 2 - posted by Hasse (U1882612) , 3 Days Ago
doctor
Dont exactly understand what your pointing at,but its looks like you are defending the conquesta by Spain.For the world in the long run is maybee the conquring and genocide of the people in new world a good thing,or maybe not.
For those invovolved aka the Aztecks was it a disaster.
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Message 3 - posted by Jack Hobbs (U1949096) **, 3 Days Ago
Perfect post, Mr.Hasse, perfect! Yes of course I think conquest is a marvellous thing and genocide too. How could I think anything else?!
I have to say also that there is much that I recognise and relate to in the programme. Particularly the cultural element of the Aztecs (a unique part of mankind) and current Mexican traditions and customs. I have read very closely the entire introduction of Prescotts 1843 three volume series on the Conquest, which includes over 250 pages on what we know of the Aztecs before the Spaniards arrived. I recommedn it not only for its subject but for its pristine writing style!
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Message 4 - posted by Jack Hobbs (U1949096) **, 3 Days Ago
In short. I can't go along with the Aztec World as non-material, or the Spanish as anything other than.
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Message 5 - posted by Richie (U1238064) , 3 Days Ago
Using an element of public 'belief' of what constitutes a good life (i.e. pre-industrial rural equality), to associate with another place, in another time, as an Earthly utopia full of magical atmosphere, stratosphere, stars, colour, prophecy and probably no gravity. All meant as a serious piece of history (documentary).
Nice one. Certainly WOWED ME!!!!!
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Ok I'll bite.
Which TV "history" program is this from????
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Message 6 - posted by Jack Hobbs (U1949096) **, 3 Days Ago
Chanel number 4
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Message 7 - posted by Anachronist (U6533507) , 3 Days Ago
Cynical hat on; throughout history there are examples of one civilisation conquering another, utopian socities based on communalism and equality have never endured, we've probably lost more knowledge and understanding of the world than we'll ever know; someone always attempts to impose their belief system and way of life on other cultures in the usually misguided belief that they are more enlightened, from ancient China to contemporary America the essence of history repeats this pattern. Is it a good thing? Probably not, it's tragic what has been destroyed in the name of progress but it seems to be part of human nature. Maybe one day we really will learn to live together in peace and haarmony but I can't see it happening in any of our lifetimes.
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Message 8 - posted by Colquhoun (U3935535) , 3 Days Ago
I saw a bit of it but I suspect I thought the same as you. I missed the first 30min, I bet they didn't mention the human sacrafice and canabalism of the Aztecs and just why so many other native nations were so keen to ally with Cortez.
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Message 9 - posted by Jack Hobbs (U1949096) **, 3 Days Ago
You bet wrong my friend. Couldn't you tell by the person of the presenter and writer???
The Aztecs fought many and various wars with their neighbours - which is how the queue-up an have your heart cut out thing started (or gathered pace).
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Message 10 - posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) , 3 Days Ago
All meant as a serious piece of history (documentary).
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If the programme being referred to was 'The Last Aztec' on Channel 4 last nite then I don't think that it was supposed to be 'a serious piece of history'. It was more of a personal journey by the presenter DBC Pierre. The program was overly long, perhaps, (2 hours). In the first hour Pierre followed in the footsteps of the conquistador Hernan Cortes and his trek from Veracruz on the coast to Tenochitlan the capital in the mountains. In the second hour he looked at the surviving remnants of Aztec culture in modern day Mexico and also went on a quest for the grave of Moctezuma the last Aztec emperor.
I have to say also that there is much that I recognise and relate to in the programme. Particularly the cultural element of the Aztecs (a unique part of mankind) and current Mexican traditions and customs.
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What happened to 'Off goes tele.......'?
In short. I can't go along with the Aztec World as non-material, or the Spanish as anything other than.
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It was confusing. Pierre even contradicted himself when at 1 point he said that the Aztecs were a 'material culture' which was the opposite of what he had said earlier.
I saw a bit of it but I suspect I thought the same as you. I missed the first 30min, I bet they didn't mention the human sacrafice and canabalism of the Aztecs and just why so many other native nations were so keen to ally with Cortez.
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Pierre spent a long time explaining how human scarifices were made all over Mexico and not just in Tenochitlan. He also explained how smaller vassal cities were subjects of the Aztecs of Tenochitlan who 'oppressed and taxed' the subject nations which again contradicted some of his earlier statements. Pierre then said how Cortes used these divisions in the Aztec empire to his own advantage.
All in all, however, it was an illuminating and enjoyable programme. Pierre's tongue-in-cheek style was appropriate for what was more of a travelog than a historical documentary. His in-depth knowledge of contemporary Mexican culture and local Spanish dialect (he grew up there) was invaluable for a presenter of this kind of program. His no-nonsense approach also made a refreshing change to some of the 'wide-eyed and wet behind the ears' type of television presenters who are sometimes sent out to foreign countries.
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Message 11 - posted by Jack Hobbs (U1949096) **, 3 Days Ago
I follow what you say, and you're right I didn't see All the programme. Perhaps blatent contradiction might also be leaning towards making fun of political ideology, 'God forbid'??!.
Of what I saw of the prgramme, it seemed to make alot of sense of what history is - and how enduring (particularly under leaden repression) human custom and tradition can be...........
