I was reading Tom Holland’s book, Rubicon on the late roman republic.
One thing in particular caught my attention and it was the use of intoxicants to degrade enemy’s ability to wage war. In particular was the case of selling wine to the Gaul’s. The Roman’s would dilute it with water while the Gaul’s drunk it neat. The Gaul’s got a taste for wine and would raid other Gaul villages for plunder in order to buy wine from traders. This degraded their ability to wage war against the Romans and lead to infighting between tribes.
The Germanic tribes who saw the effect, tried to have a ban.
The only other example I can remember the Anglo-Chinese, Opium War.
There are a few, heres an example thats kinda self inflicted for good reason.
I book I've lent out to someone The German Infantryman on the Eastern Front 1941-45 has included many letters written by German Soldiers.
One of the letters stated how the soldiers was astonised at thereckless bravery of the Soviet infantrymen who ran at them full on before being mowed down. The letter was written in December 41
When the German soldier advanced to the positions the enemy had just come from he discovered no food... just tons of empty Vodka. The Soviet command knew it was the best way to get those poor men to charge.
Stalin at the time was still incharge and would not allow retreats. Fortunalty he handed the responsibility to his generals and the war took a turn for the best.
When Soviet troops ran out of vodka they resorted to extracting Diesel from their vehicles and then drinking it
After the discovery of LSD, the american governement allegedly tried to find all kinds of applications for it - as a truth drug to give to enemy spies, as an anti-truth drug for their own spies to take on capture, as a mind control drug. They also experimented on their own troops without their knowledge to see the effects. What a bad waste of a perfectly good drug.
"Without free speech no search for truth is possible... no discovery of truth is useful... Better a thousandfold abuse of free speech than denial of free speech. The abuse dies in a day, but the denial slays the life of the people, and entombs the hope of the race." - Charles Bradlaugh.
The use of alcohol in destabilising tribal people was widespread in the United States, as local reservation agents were encouraged to sell rotgut booze to the Indians. This led to the breakdown of respect for tribal elders, and made it harder for them to rouse their people to take action. This though cannot be proved to be "official policy" of the American government of the time.
quote:Originally posted by Asarualim: After the discovery of LSD, the american governement allegedly tried to find all kinds of applications for it - as a truth drug to give to enemy spies, as an anti-truth drug for their own spies to take on capture, as a mind control drug. They also experimented on their own troops without their knowledge to see the effects. What a bad waste of a perfectly good drug.
I think they realised that giving troops LSD in action was impairing their corrodiation and making them rather apathetic to danger.
quote:Originally posted by gt: One of the Saddest history books I've ever read " Bury my heart at wounded knee". Its written by Sitting Bulls great great grandniece.
The US put typhoid on Indian blanketts in the camps they forced them to live in.
Rotgut booze, was something I heard before, I'm sure it was official US policy.
As agent Moulder would say, " The truth is out there."
Thanks for the book title gt, I'll se if my local library has it.
quote:Originally posted by gt: Didn't many RAF pilots in the battle of Britain go up pissed always thinking it was their last moments.
I recently spoke to a former fighter pilot, who said that he always had a hangover from the previous nights drinking.
Thanks for that comfirmation.
Personaly I find it a privilage when an old soldier tells of their experiences. You have living history passing on memories that otherwise fade and die.
quote:Originally posted by Andalus: One thing in particular caught my attention and it was the use of intoxicants to degrade enemy’s ability to wage war...
OK
quote:The only other example I can remember the Anglo-Chinese, Opium War.
No, that's not an example of that. Opium was the cause of the war - it's sale paid for the tea - not an attempt to "intoxicate" enemy troops.
quote:Any other similar example’s in history?
I can't think of any. However, drugs have been used to try to improve the effectiveness of one's own warriors. The Assassins (Hashish Eaters) would be a good example here. So would the various plant-based drugs used by the Zulus: Channel 4's "Secrets of the Dead" mentioned several.
I was of the understanding that alcohol and other drugs have been used by warriors throughout time as a way of calming the nerves and inducing aggression without fear ?
No, that's not an example of that. Opium was the cause of the war - it's sale paid for the tea - not an attempt to "intoxicate" enemy troops.
I mentioned it in the sense that opium was used to pacify the population and make them dependent on opium and more pliant and less likely to cause trouble to foreign forces.
People with drug habits, worry about getting drugs, and don’t think forwards, or found or build anything. They consume drugs and do what they have to, to feed their habits.
quote:Originally posted by Andalus: I mentioned it in the sense that opium was used to pacify the population and make them dependent on opium and more pliant and less likely to cause trouble to foreign forces.
Oh, I see. I agree opium seems to have that sort of effect. But I don't think that was a reason for the traffic in it by the British - basically, they didn't want to pay for the tea they were trading in silver.
I'm sorry I couldn't find a link on the Zulu stuff for you. I did cast around in Google, but the company that produces "Secrets of the Dead" must've pulled their out-of-date stuff. It was quite interesting. Some of those Zulus were really spaced out. The commonest intoxicant was cannabis used as snuff. And they'd evidently bred a variety to suit their military requirements!
When the German soldier advanced to the positions the enemy had just come from he discovered no food... just tons of empty Vodka. The Soviet command knew it was the best way to get those poor men to charge.
in WWI British troops were issued with Rum before going over the top.
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We really have dinosaurs today, without any question. You just need the right weather conditions, as I see it, to get huge creatures. And in the ocean, of course, we have huge creatures....this is where the plesiosauruses seem to be today, and perhaps also this fire breathing dragon is still down there -- very rare, but occasionally there.
--Rev. Walter Lang Founder, Bible-Science Association
Originally posted by gt: Didn't many RAF pilots in the battle of Britain go up pissed always thinking it was their last moments.
My Father used to talk about putting drunk pilots from 603 sqn into their cockpits during the BofB.
Many of them drank as the routine of getting up early to fly south fly combat sorties and then return to Edinburgh at night was pushing them to their limits
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We really have dinosaurs today, without any question. You just need the right weather conditions, as I see it, to get huge creatures. And in the ocean, of course, we have huge creatures....this is where the plesiosauruses seem to be today, and perhaps also this fire breathing dragon is still down there -- very rare, but occasionally there.
--Rev. Walter Lang Founder, Bible-Science Association
The Soviets were known to have stockpiled BZ gas which was supposed to produce a wild euphoria followed by a deep sleep for 24 hours.
The allies used to issue Amphetamines like sweeties to keep people going.
The atropine autoinjectors that were issued in the event of NBC warfare had a valium tablet which was to be given to the patient. we used to say that tablet was to make them feel that they could not care less about dying!
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We really have dinosaurs today, without any question. You just need the right weather conditions, as I see it, to get huge creatures. And in the ocean, of course, we have huge creatures....this is where the plesiosauruses seem to be today, and perhaps also this fire breathing dragon is still down there -- very rare, but occasionally there.
--Rev. Walter Lang Founder, Bible-Science Association
During the Falklands Campaign Aircrew and some ground personnel were given doses of tremazapane to help them sleep.
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We really have dinosaurs today, without any question. You just need the right weather conditions, as I see it, to get huge creatures. And in the ocean, of course, we have huge creatures....this is where the plesiosauruses seem to be today, and perhaps also this fire breathing dragon is still down there -- very rare, but occasionally there.
--Rev. Walter Lang Founder, Bible-Science Association
