A one man crusade to change the eating habits of the nation.

I'm afraid Jamie is gloriously, marvelously deluded. He is very entertaining, but doomed to fail in his greater ambitions. I expect there will be some sort of qualified success in his stewardship of the 60 or so schools, in that "healthy" food will be introduced, and some kids will eat it. At the very least he will be able to say that the kids now have the option, and with the support of the education authorities and parents it can work.

But he will never be able to cure the eating ills of society, because he hasn't got a clue about nutrition. He's still cooking white rice, potatoes and pasta! There is very little nutritional planning behind what he's cooking. Between him and Gillian McKeith there's no hope.

The lure of the sugar demon is far too strong. Outside the one meal that they get at school those kids are eating just as badly as ever they did.

There was a lot of disingenuous film making too. There was an interview with a doctor where it was revealed that some kids were so bunged up they were vomiting faeces. Watch this immediately enter the cultural landscape as yet another justification for the low fat brigade. The doctor even seemed to be laying the entire blame for the condition on saturated fat. Actually, fat is one of the gut's favourite lubricants! Of course, when the person doesn't excrete, all that fat just hangs around. It's like blaming the police for a crime wave!

The reason people get into that condition is that they have a series of lifestyle factors that all add up together. Typically, they have an aversion to going to the toilet, they tend to be sedentary (possibly watch too much TV or play too many video games). They might be overweight, but not always, and they eat lots and lots and lots of refined carbs.

A great opportunity to get to the truth and it whizzes by Jamie's ear. He doesn't even flinch.

Are we supposed to believe that JO is doing this whole thing alone, as various statements he made would lead us to believe? He met with the education authority, but we were given zero information about their role in all of this. They must be doing as much, if not more, than JO to make it work, yet we are encouraged to be on the edge of our seats rooting for Jamie.

It's great TV, but as a social experiment it's a joke.

I agree with most of what you say but frankly anything that provides publicity to this national disgrace is worth little self promotion and propoganda.

You final comment about the role of the LEA suggests that they have any role in school meals is misplaced these days. Mrs Thatcher devolved responsibility for catering contracts to the individual school heads. The LEA has little control over what your kids eat at school. Ofcourse what this means is that individual schools have to enter into a competitive market and negotiate a commercial contract with caterers and suppliers. The power of the collective bargaining goes out the window, market forces prevail, minimum standards are eroded and any subsequent attempts at improvement have to negotiated and renegotiated time after time, at school after school. Frankly I'm amazed JC bothered.

The LEA should take back collective responsibility for meals within their Borough, In doing so they and you will benefit from collective buying power, a stronger negotiating position and the ability to demand higher standards from caters. In addition those who make descions about the health and wellbeing of our kids at school become publicly accountable.

Good nutrition is a fundemental human right, not a commercial consideration!

I can only imagine that you put these comments up to court controversy. Either that or you only enjoy putting other people down have probably never contributed anything to anyone other than yourself.
This show never set out to be a 'social experiment'. It is a television show, made by a television personality chef, who is also trying to achieve something worthwhile whilst he's at it. We should welcome the attention he has brought to this woeful treatment of our schoolchildren.
If you haven't got anything positive to say, maybe you should save your acrid comments

Jamie may not be an expert in Nutrition, but He has been succesful in increasing awareness of what these kids are being fed, and the overall standards of school dinners. everyone knew it was a disgrace anyway, but no one bothered to do anything about it. Jamie may still be serving white bread, white rice and the rest, but for now, anything is better then crap like 'TURKEY TWIZZLERS'

Hear Hear
If you havent got anything positive to say - go away. At least he's moving in the right direction! I'm a parent and totally okay with what Jamie's doing. Just putting a spark back into those Dinners Ladies lives and seeing how Norma has transformed is amazing. Jamies's unstoppable!!!!
BTW those turkey twizzlers - last Thursday after Jamie attacked the turkey twizzlers, I heard on the news the manufacturers had taken the twizzlers off the menu because they agreed they were rubbish and were planning to do it before Jamie's campaign began (yeah right ! ok... but at least its done - One step forward already!...what did I say... yeah... UNSTOPPABLE

I think Jamie will have and continue to have a lot of success with this crusade, already some of the schools in my area have anounced a change in menu for school dinners, even if he is cooking white rice/pasta it is still far more beneficial than the stuff that they were eating, so in the long run it has to be better, the fact that this diet is also lower in fat and salt than the previous one has to be a bonus, this is not a perfect world but at least this is helping and who knows how far it can go.

Baby Joe.

You are quite right to point that out. I'd missed an important fact there. Ta.



RazeenaH.

My point is that without knowing the science behind it all, and by relying on media misinformation and the warped health education policies that have gotten us into this mess, how do you know that lemon chicken with white rice is any more healthy than a turkey twizzler?

And if he's not an expert in nutrition why is he setting himself up as the moral guardian of the school dinners of the nation? What makes him right and MacDonalds wrong?

Twinky.

I find your comments personal and insulting. How dare you suggest such things about me? I decided to contribute here largely because I do care what is going on in the world, and I'd like to change it just as much as JO. I think it's important that people know he has a tiger by the tail, and that there is much more to it than you see in the program.

Are my comments acrid? I'd be happy to have you point out anything I said that was insulting or inaccurate (as Baby Joe has done to my eternal gratitude). You obviously have difficulties responding to reasoned criticism.

Besides, I'm entitled to express my opinion without being attacked for doing so.

Jammymum.

Why was what I said not positive? Isn't it a positive contribution to the debate to suggest that there's more to it than JO knows? Is JO the be all and end all of the matter? Is there no more to be said?

My point is that he isn't moving in any direction. He doesn't fully understand the relationship between the food people eat and their health. He mistakenly believes that his food is more nutritious, but there is actually little evidence of this in the program. The meals I saw being prepared were just as high in refined carbohydrate as the rubbish he was seeking to replace!

As is generally the case with programs of this nature the most extreme examples are presented as the norm. It was implied that eating too much fat can cause complete digestive breakdown, the inference being that this is a fate that could potentially await every child. The truth is that fat has nothing to do with the condition.

I made no comment about Norma and the other wonderful staff that appear on the program. But I agree with you that they are great to watch.

What??? How can you not know that a "turkey" twizzler is not as healthy as a balanced and full meal?? I would way rather be fed what Jamie's schools are fed, but we don't have the choice. Also the programme has made everyone at my school want better food and it shows everyone the risks and makes us want to live a healthier lifestyle. They need Jamie to adress the issue because he is famous and therefore people listen to him, they can get the refined info after.
What makes Jamie right not Maccy D's? Well for a start, watch "Super Size me", im fairly sure that if you ate the kinds of foods that Jamie has been cooking, you wouldn't start sweating beef grease... The important thing is that there is a balance, carbs are fine with veg and stuff like that, not just deepfried with chips!
Jess xxxx

quote:

Originally posted by Twinky:
I can only imagine that you put these comments up to court controversy.

Looks like you've been spotted Periurban. It's a shame that you ruin what would otherwise be an interesting post by being so negative and going into your usual anti-carb mode. I know you mean well but dont forget that not everyone shares these views, even doctors. I beleive you yourselves are a convert to the low carb life. Bear (bare?) with the rest of us.

I think we all know it's "edutainment" and it's going to take more than one TV chef to change this country's eating habits - but it's a push in the right direction. Look at the trouble he had getting them to eat healthier than they were before. I know - you dont think so - but it passes for healthy with most dieticians.

of course there are extremes presented in the programs - it is journalism meant to shock the public into becoming concerned about a national disgrace.

Would you like to explain to me why there seems to be a lot of low GI foods in Jamie's menus? These are good for you, helping prevent diabetes etc and I want to know where all those refined carbs are?

I'm a teacher and have seen horrid stuff dished up to kids in the name of 'best value' initiatives. Of course the meals are nothing to do with best value - they are just the cheapest bulk-bought processed foods with little thought for nutrition.

Someone has got to take on our penchant for mediocrity in this country and whether you like Jamie or not - he's got balls and commitment by the bucket load and I hope his initiative succeeds.

Hi all,

This is my first post and boy it's a long one!

I never was a fan of JO really for variuos reasons However, my respect and admiration for him has been lifted way high through his program; Jamie's school dinners and after reading several threads thoroughly I had to post in this one.

So I shall address the thread owner first,

periurban states "But he will never be able to cure the eating ills of society, because he hasn't got a clue about nutrition"

Point 1. Jamie is not setting out to "cure the eating ills of society", he is setting out to improve the nutritional intake of children, many of whom receive the only cooked meal of the day at school.

Point 2. Saying JO hasn't got a clue about nutrician is quite frankly false. Are you trying to tell me that celebrity chefs get different training from ordinary chefs? lol. All students who start out in a career in catering are indoctinated with the nutritional value of food.

Sticky white rice (plus lots of fruit & veg & a bit of meat) has formed the staple diets of SE Asians for centuries. Not many fat, malnurished, turkey twizzler gobling (pun, lol)Thais could be seen last time I was in Asia. Italians have a very good diet and they eat lots of pasta, infact we are always told to emulate a mediteranian diet. Low carb does not necessarily equal good diet.

Point 3. periurban states "The lure of the sugar demon is far too strong. Outside the one meal that they get at school those kids are eating just as badly as ever they did."

Good comment, that is why it is important to educate them now, whilst young and give them an interest in the wide variety of good food and how to prepare it. If that can be done during school dinners (and home economics - if they still call it that) then so much the better. Children's tastes are naturally sweet, but this changes later in early adult life.

Point 4. Refined low carb is not the issue. As the doctor said lack of fibre was causing the problems.

Point 5. periurban states "A great opportunity to get to the truth and it whizzes by Jamie's ear. He doesn't even flinch."

When was the last time you argued a diagnosis with a doctor? Do you always seek a second opinion with another GP? Perhaps JO only consulted the one doc, or maybe he consulted 10 who all said the same thing. Maybe they all said something different and the producer put in the most shocking. Who knows, but I would say that the tone of the programme is not to BS or scare people.

Point 6. periurban states "Are we supposed to believe that JO is doing this whole thing alone, as various statements he made would lead us to believe?"

He did meet with the education secretary (which looked like Charles Clarke - the present Home Secretary) however, this was right at the end of episode 3 and therefore no objective comment can be made. I suspect that this will be shown in EP 4. I would point periurban to the fact that JO employed (out of his own pocket)3 or 4 people to help the 25 schools who agreed to go along with his scheme.

Point 7. periurban states "They must be doing as much, if not more, than JO to make it work, yet we are encouraged to be on the edge of our seats rooting for Jamie."

Why do you think the government/the LEA is doing more? The government/LEA, no matter what colour, are always poor at providing a service.

LEA's (and local councils) are the very people who are most involved in all this. They could do more if they cared about it. 37p for the cost of ingredients is a disgrace - why does it take a schelebrity schef to highlight this isssue if the LEA's or Government are doing all they can to provide a healthy, balanced, nutritional meal?

Point 8. I doubt this is a social experiment. It is simply one man who has seen what is on offer and thinks that by highlighting the issue he can change peoples lives for the better.

I would also say that Heads of Schools should also fight tooth and bloody nail to ensure a healthy meal is provided for their pupils. Although the poor ba****ds are drowning in paper work already.

Twinky states "I can only imagine that you put these comments up to court controversy. Either that or you only enjoy putting other people down have probably never contributed anything to anyone other than yourself".

periurban may well or may not be a troll (internet speak for a person whos stirs it on purpose), in some peoples opinions, however, it is only right that periurban have their say and should be addressed politely.

Razeenah - I like it - He IS doing something.

Jammymum states "If you havent got anything positive to say - go away" - periurban does have a right to express his/her opinion, I personally agree with the rest of of your post though.

periurban - your reply to RazeenaH about how do we know what is nutritional and what's not is easily answered by looking at a grilled turkey twizzler and lemon chicken with rice.


Twinky - don't be sucked in bud/babe/whatever - you are obviously passionate about this. My advise - Take 5 and then reply

periurban replys to twinky "You obviously have difficulties responding to reasoned criticism".

periurban - to maintain the high ground, even if offended, is not to react as above.


"Besides, I'm entitled to express my opinion without being attacked for doing so."

Quite wrong my friend - debate is all about being attacked - just not in a personal way.

periurban states "My point is that he isn't moving in any direction. He doesn't fully understand the relationship between the food people eat and their health. He mistakenly believes that his food is more nutritious, but there is actually little evidence of this in the program. The meals I saw being prepared were just as high in refined carbohydrate as the rubbish he was seeking to replace!"

I have to disagree with this statement. See point 2. I agree with Jess_smith.


Sue S says "Someone has got to take on our penchant for mediocrity in this country and whether you like Jamie or not - he's got balls and commitment by the bucket load and I hope his initiative succeeds".

Amen. Lets all shake it up and get a better deal.

Hear, Hear i say

You make some very valid points but you are wrong to say that JO is doomed, and you are demandinhg too much. I see this as just the beginning, and I believe that inthe end he will win out.
I like your point about saturated fat. I like it so much i am going to start a new topic on it.
As for carbs: I agree with you that Jamie's use of pasta etc is not very healthy. I'd like to see him change to whole grain pasta and rice. People say kids won't eat it, but I was persistent and now bioth my children much prefer it to the white denatured stuff. It's all a questionof persistence.

Let's not be too hard on this topic. It's a start. Even white rice/pasta is better than chips and batter. And with veg and good quality protein included its a huge step forward.

Wouldn't it be good if manufacturers offered a 'mixed' pack of 50% white/50% wholemeal rice and pasta etc. It could help ease the transition.

Please let no-one use the word 'brown'. This can be a deadly misnomer in all food groups. 'Brown bread can, by law and often is, just processed white bread with colouring put back in to make it look healthier. This can also be true of pasta and rice etc. It MUST state WHOLEMEAL or WHOLEGRAIN etc to be better.)

Turkey twizzlers are 30% mechanically recovered turkey and stuffed with salt and God knows what else, so I will say that they are NOT a healthy balanced meal.

At least Jamie has the balls to attempt to help, when we were at school there was no such thing as all this processed crap they give them now.

It is a medical fact that if these kids eat at least ONE healthy meal a day, it will be enough to flush their system and help prevent colon cancer. So what if they go home and have a McDonalds or a plate of chips? At least they will have eaten that one healthy meal at school.

I really do hope this works out and Jamie will be remembered for saving our kids from a bleak future of poor health.

A good suggestionabout half-half, to slowlyt get kids acclimatised. My expereince is that once people get the taste for whole grain products they can't stand their white counterparts. And you are right about the use of the word "brown". Same thing goes for brown sugar which is mostly just white sugar with colour added! Demerara sugar is the same - orignally, Demerara sugar came from Demerara and was a lovely, thick, moist dark sugar made from molasses. Now it's just coloured white and can come from anywhere inthe world..

quote:

Originally posted by Carol Shea:
Let's not be too hard on this topic. It's a start. Even white rice/pasta is better than chips and batter. And with veg and good quality protein included its a huge step forward.

Wouldn't it be good if manufacturers offered a 'mixed' pack of 50% white/50% wholemeal rice and pasta etc. It could help ease the transition.

Please let no-one use the word 'brown'. This can be a deadly misnomer in all food groups. 'Brown bread can, by law and often is, just processed white bread with colouring put back in to make it look healthier. This can also be true of pasta and rice etc. It MUST state WHOLEMEAL or WHOLEGRAIN etc to be better.)

I would certainly buy a half and half white/wholemeal pasta. I would also be happy to try 100% wholemeal but so far I have only seen spaghetti and fusilli. We prefer to use either penne or tagliatelle. I can make fresh tagliatelle myself using a pasta machine and made half and half tagliatelle last week. It was not too bad and I will make it again.

I could go into a major rant here but I`m not going to. All I am going to say is that everyone having a go at periurban here should go away and do some research on real nutrition. Not the rubbish we (and Chefs) get taught.

Open your minds. Read. Learn. Then come back and argue. Rusty999..whatever in particular. Your comments about SE Asians alone shows how little you truly understand the real issues here.

Jess.

My point about the turkey twizzler vs. Jamies alternative is that most people do not know what it is about a turkey twizzler that leads to diabetes and obesity. Clue - it's not the fat.

Adalgisa.



Sue.

I agree that many of the meals are low GI, but there is still way too much rice and pasta. That's not the way to wean the nation off it's sugar addiction.

Rusty.

Wow! Thanks for that. I wish I had time to address all of the issues you raise.

Point 2. Sticky white rice has never been as widespread as many westerners think. Rice has traditionally been used to stave off starvation in countries where little else would grow, and it was also the whole grain that was eaten, some 75% more nutritious than the white stuff. The traditional Chinese diet was very high in animal products, saturated fats and protein.

Point 4. The doctor said no such thing. Watch the way the interview was edited. Fibre helps the gut eliminate, but it isn't essential, and the doctors comments were taken out of context.

Point 8. It is the very definition of a social experiment.

I'm not a troll! I just want people to know there's more to the issue than Jamie can bring to the table. I'm sure he's well intentioned, but he hasn't got all the facts.

Irishbanshee.

And mechanically recovered turkey is bad because....? Isn't it just as nutritious as any other protein? Do you know what it is that causes colon cancer? If not, how do you know that eating lemon chicken with white rice will stop you getting it?

Colon cancer is usually caused by poor diet. I have suffered from IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome) for 27 years now and I DO know the effects diet can have on your digestive system.

I will tell you why Lemon Chicken and rice is better than twizzlers and chips, it's because the rice is fibre rich enough to push through your system successfully and the chicken is in its natural state and easier to digest. Turkey twizzlers are made up from ALL parts of the chicken, including offal (brains, kidneys, liver, intestines, etc) PLUS added salt and God knows what else; they are scientifically harder to digest than fresh meat and rice.

quote:

Originally posted by irishbanshee:
Colon cancer is usually caused by poor diet. I have suffered from IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome) for 27 years now and I DO know the effects diet can have on your digestive system.

Yes but what is it in the diet that`s causing your IBS?

quote:

I will tell you why Lemon Chicken and rice is better than twizzlers and chips, it's because the rice is fibre rich enough to push through your system successfully and the chicken is in its natural state and easier to digest. Turkey twizzlers are made up from ALL parts of the chicken, including offal (brains, kidneys, liver, intestines, etc) PLUS added salt and God knows what else; they are scientifically harder to digest than fresh meat and rice.

And brains, kidneys, liver, intestines aren`t nutritious? Sorry you`re talking tosh.

Irishbanshee.

I agree with you! But define "poor diet". We both know that turkey twizzlers are junk food, but we probably don't agree on why. Traditionally humans ate *everything* that was edible, including the body parts you mention, disgusting though it may seem in today's cultural environment. (In fact, in many parts of the world they still do!)

So, twizzlers are not bad for you because of the protein content, regardless of where it comes from.

And contrary to popular belief food standards are sufficiently high these days that most (but not all!) additives are perfectly safe, and they certainly don't account for diabetes, obesity or heart disease.

White rice is actually fibre deficient! It has had almost all the fibre removed, along with most of the nutrients (especially the B vitamins, which are practically the only good reason for eating it in the first place!) You are expressing a modern myth - that refined and processed carbohydrates are healthy. Far from it!

The primary culprit in the twizzler is not the fat, not the additives, not the sourcing of the protein - it's those supposedly "essential" and "healthy" refined carbohydrates.

The body reacts to refined carbohydrates the way you would react if someone poured petrol on your kitchen stove. The explosion of energy that results causes the body to react extremely quickly to damp the fires down, releasing a huge amount of insulin. The toxic long term effects that this has on the body via the well known physiology of the endocrine system are utterly disastrous.

In Britian we are seeing epidemic levels of obesity, diabetes, MS, cancer, heart disease, strokes and all the other diseases of the western world. The rises have tracked the increase in carbohydrate in our diet.

The mechanisms wherby the insulin response creates a perfect circumstance for food addiction are also well documented. The chemical structure of the brain is altered and behavioural problems result.

None of us believe that junk food is healthy, but the science doesn't indicate that lemon chicken and white rice is fundamentally any healthier! It doesn't matter where the carbohydrate comes from. The body doesn't distinguish between the reconstituted potato in a twizzler and the white rice or pasta in a JO dish.

In all important respects they are just as bad as one another.

[Interestingly, cultures that do not eat refined carbohydrates have regular, healthy bowel movements, regardless of the fibre content of their food. In fact, the pioneering work of Weston Price in the 1930's showed that traditional people who ate no refined carbohyrate were healthy regardless of what they ate! The Inuit (at that time) had a very high fat, low fibre diet based almost entirely on animal products. Other cultures ate lots of fresh vegetables, and some ate very few. Some ate lots of milk products, some ate none. All were healthy, with none of the problems that plague the developed world today.

It was only when the modern carbohydrate rich diet was introduced that those people became sick.]

I can't believe half the tosh I'm reading here. I agree with the majority of what Periurban has said. You're all brainwashed by what JO is telling you. Turkey twizzlers are no worse than than the humble sausage, and while I agree they're not what I would call 'healthy', they're certainly not bad for you. Eat nothing but Big Macs for a week and no, it's not healthy, but we should be trying to teach people about 'BALANCED' diets, no