I am sure the sugar industry is subsidised by the EU as part of CAP. For far too long sugar has been regarded by politicians and economists as a vital commodity rather than an unhealthy poison.

Monteiro.

Have you read "Sugar Blues" by William Dufty? He makes a very valid point about the sugar and opium (herion) trades.

Until opium was banned the two trades were carried out by the same companies (East India Company amongst others) in almost exactly the same way. In both cases it was the nobility who first experienced the delights of the two drugs.

But sugar was acceptable because it didn't directly affect mood and behaviour. How ironic that we now know that long term sugar abuse actually has a hugely detrimental and destructive effect on the chemistry of the brain, possibly even rivalling that of hard drugs like heroin and cocaine.

I just hope that one day our politicians wake up to the fact that if we removed sugar from our diet all those billions they spend on treating the results of addiction to it would be saved.

Does Europe actually produce any sugar? I thought it all came from outside.

Europe and Britain produces millions of tons of sugar from sugar beet, a plant that was almost unheard of before WWII. I think that almost all the white sugar sold in Britain comes from sugar beet and only brown sugar comes from sugar cane.

The cultivation of sugar beet was done to make Europe self sufficient in sugar.

Monteiro.

Ah, I was forgetting.

Perhaps we should grow our own opium poppies too.

quote:

Originally posted by periurban:
I just hope that one day our politicians wake up to the fact that if we removed sugar from our diet all those billions they spend on treating the results of addiction to it would be saved.

not to mention the cost in dental care, a large proportion of my 6yr old daughter's classmates already have fillings

Ecclectic Leopard.

It's interesting (well, to me anyway!) that the modern reaction against sugar in the diet was begun by Weston A. Price, a dentist, as long ago as the 1930's.

He wanted to know why it was that people's teeth and gums were in such poor shape. He travelled the world and found lots of evidence of sugar addiction and the effect it has on health, including the teeth.

What he discovered was that it doesn't really matter what you eat as long as you don't eat refined carbohydrates or sugar.

One of his findings was that people whose parents ate a high carbohydrate diet (rich in sugar and refined grains) tended to have compressed palates, leading to there being insufficient room for the growth of a full set of teeth. This is a very common problem today, but it is absent from those populations who eat a more healthy diet.

quote:

Originally posted by periurban:
One of his findings was that people whose parents ate a high carbohydrate diet (rich in sugar and refined grains) tended to have compressed palates, leading to there being insufficient room for the growth of a full set of teeth. This is a very common problem today, but it is absent from those populations who eat a more healthy diet.

Hi Periurban

Exactly how common is this 'common problem'? And where are these healthy populations?

Just curious

I'm struggling to understand how the father's carbohydrate consumption can affect the development of the child's mouth.

We all know that excessive sugar isn't good for your teeth and can make you fat, but to call it a poison rivalling heroin sounds like the demented rantings of an Atkins obsessive, or a certain Scottish nutritionist...
Jamie is being rightly applauded for bringing sensible, moderate healthy eating to the fore. Children need good, wholesome meals, not fad diets.

Partypooper!

Hullo again! Oh dear



Common problem? Well, according to my dentist it's quite common for children to have the problem. I personally know many children who have had to have teeth removed to allow other teeth to grow in properly. I don't have facts and figures, but I guess you could dredge them up.

Price's finding was that populations who hadn't been exposed to the western diet didn't have this problem.

Quite what the mechanism might be, I don't know. I'd be interested to see the raw data, and to see if his results could be confirmed.

Can carbohydrate consumption affect the gametes? Unlikely. Or is it more to do with the mother's diet during pregnancy? The latter is much more probable, since we already know that the mother's diet does affect the child in a number of ways.

Or is it to do with early years nutrition? The parents may not have been exposed to refined carbohydrates until adulthood, which protects their developing palate from the problem.

Father's diet?

Sundog.

Bad for your teeth, bad for your health, bad for your mind. Sugar addiction, often unrecognised and untreated, kills many more people than herion abuse.

It doesn't appear in any great quantity in nature, it has to be refined, and it serves absolutely no nutritional purpose whatsoever.

No "good, wholesome" diet includes even a modest amount of sugar.

Hotgirl.

Rational debate a precursor to mutual admiration and possibly true love? Now, there's a film in there somewhere. I can see Tom Hanks playing me.

quote:

Originally posted by periurban:
Price's finding was that populations who hadn't been exposed to the western diet didn't have this problem.

Earlier you said that Price found people whose parents ate a high carbohydrate diet had this problem, but now this has degenerated into a vague statement about unspecified people being 'exposed' to a 'western' diet.

I have a theory that a lack of facts and figures causes an increase in fudging.

Partypooper.

As ever, you've highlighted my fudgey thinking, and once again I'm in your debt.



But I think my original statement is a fair reflection of what Price found. It's only when you come to examine the mechanisms whereby that finding may be true that you have to tighten your thinking further.

I can't remember the exact quote, but I think what Price actually said was that the problem manifested itself within a single generation, which he found quite surprising. He established this by examining the palates of the elderly people in the societies he looked at, and compared those with the younger generations. By asking questions about eating habits he was able to make his claim.

This kind of quick response in a population is the same as has been seen in other respects in the Inuit and more recently the Pima Indians, where diabetes suddenly begins to affect a population where it was previously unknown.

The "people" are not unspecified. You can read Price's book. I'm not sure how much supporting evidence still exists from the 1930's to back up his findings. His research may have been selective, and since he was a dentist his findings tend to be rather specific.

But I still think what he found needs to be explained by those who tell us sugar and refined carbohydrates are good for us.

Hotgirl.

On second thoughts, I think I'm more the Robert Redford type. No, he's too old.....

Tom Cruise? Too short.

Will Smith? Big ears.

Brad Pitt? Just a boy.

George Clooney? Hmm.



Somebody call Hello Magazine!

That's the great thing about the internet. I could be anything I want to be......

....so George Clooney it is!

Sadly, I haven't found a way to fantasise his millions into my bank account.



(I'll bet he's a low carber too......)

bump

I admire what Jamie Oliver is trying to do to improve children's school lunches but I just cannot stand the bloke. Everything about him makes me cringe from his OTT mockney accent to his smug little wife...arrggggg!!!! I know it's irrational but I just can't abide the fella.

Lol I like him. He seems like a genuinely nice guy. Hes annoying in the Sainsburys adverts though...

Now we need someone to go into the hospitals and improve the food there. It shouldn’t be a difficult job. The standard of food there is so low. If you don’t have visitors bringing you food you could starve. Ill people often need especially tempting food to encourage them to eat. If you’re going into hospital for the first time, be warned, take a goodie bag.

This whole show sounds very interesting, I can almost hear the Americans trying to steal it immediately...we always do....
I was brought up in the '70's, a time when everyone was rebelling against the 'hippie' ideas and eating healthy and everything...frozen was 'in'. but not with my mom....we learned to cook, she gave us coupons to help and learn, as a result, we learned everything....it also helped that my father was a Cordon Bleu chef, we cook well.
Now, let me ask this; how many of you can COOK, in the real sense of not needing frozen 'stuff', or mixes to fill it out?
What would you do if you were handed your meal for the next two days, and it was a whole chicken, a sack of potatoes,butter, and broccoli?(salt and pepper, garlic and so on,too)
Would anyone know how to make a meal with it? Would anyone know how to stretch it without resorting to premade accompanyments?
This would be an interesting discussion, I would love to know because I am interested to know.
And how would you make sure your fanily would actually eat it...not 'I won't eat it!' bit.
You eat it, or starve.
Mousiez

quote:

Originally posted by Mousie:
This whole show sounds very interesting, I can almost hear the Americans trying to steal it immediately...we always do....
I was brought up in the '70's, a time when everyone was rebelling against the 'hippie' ideas and eating healthy and everything...frozen was 'in'. but not with my mom....we learned to cook, she gave us coupons to help and learn, as a result, we learned everything....it also helped that my father was a Cordon Bleu chef, we cook well.
Now, let me ask this; how many of you can COOK, in the real sense of not needing frozen 'stuff', or mixes to fill it out?
What would you do if you were handed your meal for the next two days, and it was a whole chicken, a sack of potatoes,butter, and broccoli?(salt and pepper, garlic and so on,too)
Would anyone know how to make a meal with it? Would anyone know how to stretch it without resorting to premade accompanyments?
This would be an interesting discussion, I would love to know because I am interested to know.
And how would you make sure your fanily would actually eat it...not 'I won't eat it!' bit.
You eat it, or starve.
Mousiez

Maybe this should be a new thread. This one is groaning at the edges anyway.

For myself and my family, we never eat any pre-prepared food, aside from pre-cooked cold meats.

Yes, we could survive on a whole chicken (as long as it's not still running around!), but can I please make a nice curry out of it? If you insist that all I have is chicken, potatoes and butter I will make do (and throw most of the potatoes away!)

I'm pleased to see that old threads like this one have survived the renaming of the forum. I just hope newcomers don't get confused!

quote:

Originally posted by periurban:
Basicman! You're back!



Are you gonna stick around this time, or is it a flying visit?

Seems that was a flying visit... but may stick around for a bit now. Back to writing again and love sounding off ideas and questions here! Missed you guys!!

Quite how Jamie is doomed gets into the wholefood debate is beyond me but there are quite a few common misconceptions.

Firstly the carbohydrarte debate of what is 'natural' or not.
Most carbs in our diets are not natural, the most obvious being wheat since it is so intertwined with Western human society.
Regardless of whether wheat is whole grain or not it is still an unnatural man made product which bears as much (actually a lot less) relation to its natural relatives as a chichaua does to a grey wolf. Theoretically a chichaua given a set of step ladders and restraints can breed with a wolf and with the aid of artificial insemination the process relies less on step ladders! Wheat on the other hand cannot cross pollentate a natural grass from which it is derived and wheat has had almost no time (less than 12,000 yrs) for the human body to adapt. For between 1:100 and 1:200 people (Western Europeans) the protein of wheat, barley and rye is toxic and yet this forms the basis of our civilisation from religious rites to what we consider a 'normal basket of goods'. Strangely enough this statisitc is not well known in the UK but in Italy where all children are tested the rate is 1:200 and increasing as the older undiagnosed people die from their pasta and the younger generation are diagnosed in childhood.