quote:Originally posted by crazy_ranger: I just have a few obscene words for the actress. I notice how JMS is very diplomatic on the DVD, but says what the hell he likes in the TV Zone memoirs!
Here you are, I'll give you a few words; "money" and "grabber"
Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand. But I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the skies from me...
Hooray, a Babylon 5 thread! I thought this was all gone after the main thread vanished with the old Discuss4 board. Hello everybody.
S4 has been a great DVD package; haven't listened to the cast audio commentary yet, but if it's half as good as the ones on S2 and 3 it should be worth hearing. I'm creeping horribly closer to Endgame though, as I work through the set. Silly, silly Marcus. Always thought S5 would have been better with him in it!
Endgame is one of the best eps in the season, and I never said that I don't like Ivonova, she's a great character. I just don't much like the actress right now. Particularly since I managed to do the whole season in 3 days, this is why I hate buying boxsets, I always feel the impulse to watch them as quickly as possible!!!!!
"I can't fix this thing, it's a lost cause. Maybe if you vomit on it, it'll fix itself!"
As BRG shouldn't check back until after- i suppose we could start having a wake without him.... now that the spoilers i've been keeping down are out....
WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! NONONONONONO!!!! IM STILL IN DENIAL!!! IT'S BEEN TWO YEARS SINCE I FIRST SAW IT AND I'M STILL IN DENIAL!!!! HOW COULD JOE DO THAT TO MARCUS!
Oh a happier note- found the two B5 magazines with Jason Carter interviews...oh (gush gush)
If Marcus were to come back.....
"Get laid. I mean to go out a Virgin, it's a bit rough isn't it?"--
Thank you mister Carter.
Okay- about the popularity of Marcus-
Is it because we get an intelligent, witty funny and well portayed English charecter? Or is Marcus a rampant phenonenon in that states as well? Does anyone know?
do I have to do another quote.... oh well.....
"I mean he really did have an english accent, just like in all those old movies..."
Marcus is just supremely cool. The best costume ever! Almost the best weapon ever. He's a swashbuckler, and everybody loves people like that; plus - sarky Brit. Who can beat that? Who wouldn't warm to him during the closing credits of Atonement?! Or during the whole of Racing Mars, when he's teasing Stephen about being married?! Everybody loves Marcus!
Seriously though, for me S5 was a disappointment, although it had a lot of good stuff in it. If Marcus had still been there, doing his stuff from time to time, S5 would have been at least as good as S1 or 2. But it's too late now...
They should make a TV movie about him and Sinclair on Minbar, back in 2260.
quote:Or is Marcus a rampant phenonenon in that states as well?
Oh good- nice to know its not because he's one of the few REALLY good british charecters ever on an American Tv show.
Just look at the HORRIBLE stereotypes trek's given us. UGHHHHHH!!!! (Tears hair out in frustration)Bloody hell!!!
Season 5 would have been ok if it hadn't been for a nameless actress who shall remain nameless being a BLOODY MONEY GRABBER!!! Joe was given the opertunity to rehire her- he said he didn't on a matter of principal. Amen JMS.
Season 5 needed Marcus, and not to have had Tracey Scoggins in it. I don't care what CC's reasons for leaving were; Ivanova is one of my all time favourite female characters. One of the few female characters ever that isn't two-dimensional and badly written. Much kudos to JMS, as ever. But Tracey Scoggins, much despised by all Highlander fans, wasn't ever going to be a good addition to the cast. Plus her character was annoying anyway.
But mostly S5 was not so good because it was missing Marcus. Oh JMS, if only you had known how much bad fanfiction you were inflicting upon the world! S1 and 2 were great stuff, despite being noticeably lacking in Marcus, because there was plenty else going on as well. S5 was a little slow in comparison. Plus it had a goatee in it, being sported by a certain president who shall remain nameless. (We'll just call him President Get A Razor Now!). And beards are always a mistake. Unless you're Marcus, obviously.
But who knows. I haven't seen S5 since 1997, so maybe it'll seem better now!
well if you consider that a great deal of season 5 was ment to revolve around Ivanova- the budget was halved, the shooting days went from 7 to 6...JMS did pretty well! As for Lockley- you weren't supposed to like her! Joe knew that he couldn't replace Ivanova so he didn't try to!
Note; Marcus is not dead- according to Jason Carter (after an extreme practical joke played on him by Bill Mumy that in Grey 17 is missing marcus was going to be killed off) JMS made a promise he wouldnt ever kill him. So he has him frozen...JMS is as good as his word.
But the amount of times they talk about Marcus in S5 is quite noticable! I think that in JMS's head there must have been a little marcus saying "You killed me, now you have to talk about me forever!"
The end of season 5 WAS great though. It was hell of a way for the series to end. S5 isn't all that bad... not really. It had some GREAT moments. "Just one question Mr Garibaldi- how stupid do you think I am?" And in sleeping in light in a certain charecters office....* I know that voice..** "(insert first name) BABY!!!" (That was actually my reaction!- but without the spoiler omitance for BRG's sake.)
Yeah. I've written a Marcus Resuscitated story too! I just wasn't kind enough to bring him back in Ivanova's lifetime!
And I know he's not dead. No way. Just chilly! Jason asked JMS what Marcus's status was, and his answer was: "We don't get season five, you're dead. We do get season five, you're just frozen." JMS wrote a Marcus Resuscitated story himself, anyway. I just tracked it down a day or two back. It's dreadful! I've read Marcus Resus fanfiction that was better. Lousy, lousy, lousy ending! I mean, I know JMS is god and all, but he should really stick to TV shows.
Just watched Rumours, Bargains and Lies, anyway. The scene where Sheridan is all snappy to Marcus amuses me. He snaps because Marcus questions why he's been sent light years away to shoot at asteroids, and Sheridan is all sulky. You can just hear it in his voice. "Damn it, if I was Sinclair you wouldn't be questioning that order. So just do it! And why don't I get an Entil'Zha Veni?!"
Is JMS's story really that bad? I mean are we talking grey 17 is missing bad (Which was at least half good with the rangers storyline) or Infection bad (David Mccalum and Sinclairs speech to the evil big beasty thing (Gee- i do so well with trivia!) make it worth watching)
I didn't actually resusitate Marcus- I had Ivanova go back into the past and give her own life energy to save herself... It was very confusing! And the bloody exposition!!!
BRG has reached the end of Season 4! After a marathon session last night with BRG parked right infront of the telly surrounded with food, I have experienced sci fi heaven & hell.
Endgame was brilliant! Brilliant drama, brilliant acting, and brilliant SFX. The battle scenes are as good as any sci fi movie, apart from Star Wars.
I see BRG's guess about Marcus was spot on. As I sensationally predicted, he gave his life energy too Ivanova. I suppose it's a good way to go, but it was a blow to lose the British Ranger. But, to tell you the truth, Marcus had very little to do in season 4. Don't get me wrong, he is a great character, who lit up every scene he was in, but when the Shadow War ended, all he had to do was hang around behind Ivanova, or accompany Franklin on a mission to Mars. Both times he added humour to those stories, but he really was like a spare wheel for most of that season.
Well Well! I see that after all is sead and done, JMS has turned B5 into Star Trek! Interstellar Alliance my arse, United Federation of Planets sounds more like it! But again this was building from about the half way point of the season, when Sheridan got Londo & G'Kar to agree to Whitestar Ranger patrols on there borders. So my prediction about Earth and Minbari coming together was not far off, just a wee bit bigger! And Sheridan is not leader of the Grey Council(YET!) but is the President of the IA.
Here is a few wee points about that amazing last episode(Falling Stars?) Was this filmed seperate from the rest of the season? Because Delenn's monologe at the end of the penultimate episode sounded like it was not only bringing the curtain down on season 4, but on the WHOLE series. I remember Angel & Crazy said that season 4 was thought to be the last, so was 'Falling Stars' just a way of saying "We'll be back next year!"? The Babylon 5 story as the new Bible for the rebuilding Earth! I bet that went down well in the American South! Did you see the double thunderbolt insignia the holographic tech had on his uniform in the +500 history, it looked almost identical to a WW2 Nazi SS insignia. And at the end, the Last Human on Earth, just before our Sun blew, was that a Vorlon suit he got into? And one last point. The 'old' Delenn make up was the most convincing I think I've ever seen for making a character look far older, and it was aided by another great performance by Mira Furlan! Why have I not seen this amazing and beautifull actress in anything else? BRG
From what I heard at the time they weren't sure of getting the next series, and they were determined to make that episode so they did it then.
That human had evolved into a similar form to the Vorlons, it was a million years in the future after all. It showed the end of another cycle, as the Vorlons were so we became, presumably also nurturing the younger races and (hopefully) leaving the galaxy when they were ready to go it alone.
OK, first off Marcus. What was the deal with this character? I've heard that JMS had the whole of the B5 story planned before it started filming, and he had a sutible 'exit' for any character, so if some one fell out of the show(eg's Sinclair/Talia) then he could replace them and still keep the main story(Sheridan/Lyta) BUT, do you remember Warren Keffer? The square jawed, hot blooded, all American, Top Gun fighter-jock from season 2? Well Angel told me that this character was forced on JMS by the network, and he used the first opertunity he had to kill him off. So was Marcus always intended to be in the story from season 3, or was he just a replacement for Keffer? And as for Marcus's death, what was the reason? Did Jason Carter want out? Was JMS unhappy with the character? Was it always intended that he'd die at the end of season 4? Was he killed off before season 5 got the green light, and was actually supposed to die at the end of season 5? or was it just to give Ivanova's character a stimulus to drive her in Season 5? BRG demandes answers!
And on to Ivanova her self. I have been avoiding Mickey & Crazy's discussion as they gave me a spoiler warning, but before warning me off, they claimed JMS called Claudia Christian a "Money Grabbing Bitch!". So will Captain Ivanova be in season 5? By having Marcus save her, and by promoting her to captain, this would seem to indicate that Ivanova will be Station Commander in season 5. BUT, At the end of the second last episode(or was it the start of the last?) The voice over said that she had applied for a transfer to a Destroyer! Does this mean she is out? if so who will be Station Commander? Surely President Sheridan can't hold both positions!
And my last question. What is going on! All the main story threads have been brought to a conclusion, so what will happen in season 5? The voice over hinted at The Drak War and The Telepath War amoung other things, but this semmed an awful lot to cram into one season! And what about those wierd alien symbionts? Remember Londo's Dream? That thing is still round the neck of the Centauri Regent! I assume this will be delt with in season 5?
well, a wonerfull season of TV! easilly the best of them all. The only area were season 4 was weaker than 2&3 was in the development of the characters. For reason of moving the story on at the furious pace it needed, alot of the characters fell out of sight for episodes at a time. Londo, G'Kar & Vir had very little to do after the first 6 episodes. Franklin & Lyta had the mars mission, but not much else. and Ivanova, Zack Allen, Lenneir and especially Marcus had very little to do all season as the story focused on Sheridan, Delenn & Garibaldi. As I said, this is the only area were it was not up to season 2&3, but in every other way, it was the best season of television I have ever seen. Looking forward too Season 5!(Although I have been told it's a dissapointment ) BRG
Ivanova isn't in season 5, apart from a small role in one of the later episodes. A new character is introduced to take over from her. I'm being circumspect as I don't want to give too much away.
You get some of the Drakh war in the final season, more of that's covered in that TV movie that set the scene for Crusade (I forget the name of it). Most of it is covered in the "Legion of Fire" book trilogy, many things are alluded to in the TV series but a lot is left unanswered. You'll almost certainly want to read the books after you've watched season 5.
The lead-up to the Telepath War is a major thread, we're still waiting for the war itself (JMS has said that he intends to make a mini-series, or at least a TV movie of it, but that was ages ago).
quote:OK, first off Marcus. What was the deal with this character? I've heard that JMS had the whole of the B5 story planned before it started filming, and he had a sutible 'exit' for any character, so if some one fell out of the show(eg's Sinclair/Talia) then he could replace them and still keep the main story(Sheridan/Lyta) BUT, do you remember Warren Keffer? The square jawed, hot blooded, all American, Top Gun fighter-jock from season 2? Well Angel told me that this character was forced on JMS by the network, and he used the first opertunity he had to kill him off. So was Marcus always intended to be in the story from season 3, or was he just a replacement for Keffer?
Warren was indeed forced upon JMS, and removed as soon as possible! (Poor Warren. Always felt sorry for the actor!). Marcus, however, does seem to have been part of the plan all along. JMS wanted a Ranger to be a semi-permanent presence on board B5, to be used when needed, to provide information when needed, and to have a burgeoning romance with Ivanova. All the elements of Marcus - lonely, wandering, a virgin - show him as a JMS character rather than one forced on him from above. JMS speaks of Marcus very fondly, too.
quote:And as for Marcus's death, what was the reason?
Ivanova was dying, but wasn't going to die In order to bring her back to life, somebody else had to make a sacrifice, so that her survival wasn't too easy. Too glib.
quote:Did Jason Carter want out?
No! Definitely not! Although he did like the way he went.
quote:Was JMS unhappy with the character?
No. Not so far as anyone can tell. He's often said that Marcus is one of the characters he's had living in his head, talking to him.
quote:Was it always intended that he'd die at the end of season 4?
Probably "Marcus has always been somebody looking for a cause to sacrifice his life for, mainly because he doesn't think his own life is worth living." (paraphrasing JMS)
quote:Was he killed off before season 5 got the green light, and was actually supposed to die at the end of season 5?
Probably. Most of the story plan was done well in advance.
quote:or was it just to give Ivanova's character a stimulus to drive her in Season 5?
No.You'll see why when S5 comes out. Irony, irony, irony. When does S5 come out, anyone know?)
quote:And on to Ivanova her self. I have been avoiding Mickey & Crazy's discussion
sorry - too used to everybody having seen the show years ago. Didn't think! But you can read it all now. Much Marcus lauding.
quote:as they gave me a spoiler warning, but before warning me off, they claimed JMS called Claudia Christian a "Money Grabbing Bitch!". So will Captain Ivanova be in season 5?
Not telling unless you really want to know. And I didn't call CC that, that was just C-R. I don't know anything about that!
quote:By having Marcus save her, and by promoting her to captain, this would seem to indicate that Ivanova will be Station Commander in season 5. BUT, At the end of the second last episode(or was it the start of the last?) The voice over said that she had applied for a transfer to a Destroyer! Does this mean she is out? if so who will be Station Commander? Surely President Sheridan can't hold both positions!
No, he can't. How seriously do you want to know the answers here? They're not major spoilers.
quote:And my last question. What is going on! All the main story threads have been brought to a conclusion, so what will happen in season 5?
There's loads yet. Getting the IA started up. Londo and G'Kar.
quote:The voice over hinted at The Drak War and The Telepath War amoung other things, but this semmed an awful lot to cram into one season! And what about those wierd alien symbionts? Remember Londo's Dream? That thing is still round the neck of the Centauri Regent! I assume this will be delt with in season 5?
Not all of it. Not per se. Remember Londo's dream happened in the future. S5 takes place in 2262, and that dream - a straight foreshadowing of the future, as we saw in War Without End - would have been in the 2270s. The Keepers will be a part of S5 though.
quote:Well Well! I see that after all is sead and done, JMS has turned B5 into Star Trek!
Didn't! Bloody didn't!
quote: Interstellar Alliance my arse, United Federation of Planets sounds more like it!
Isn't. Grouse, grouse, grumble. Comparisons of beloved JMS with Gene Roddenberry.
quote:Here is a few wee points about that amazing last episode(Falling Stars?) Was this filmed seperate from the rest of the season? Because Delenn's monologe at the end of the penultimate episode sounded like it was not only bringing the curtain down on season 4, but on the WHOLE series. I remember Angel & Crazy said that season 4 was thought to be the last, so was 'Falling Stars' just a way of saying "We'll be back next year!"?
JMS never lost faith in having S5. He never believed that he wouldn't get to make it. Deconstruction Of Falling Stars would always have been there, probably as an ending for S4, or as an opener for S5.
quote:The Babylon 5 story as the new Bible for the rebuilding Earth! I bet that went down well in the American South! Did you see the double thunderbolt insignia the holographic tech had on his uniform in the +500 history, it looked almost identical to a WW2 Nazi SS insignia.
Not sure about that, but if not, why shouldn't it? It was an Eastern peace symbol long before the Nazis got their warped little hands on it. JMS is of Eastern European Jewish extraction, so believe me, he'd get any meaning that might be there!
quote:another great performance by Mira Furlan! Why have I not seen this amazing and beautifull actress in anything else?
Why haven't we seen any of them in anything else? I was stunned every step of the way by Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas. Their performances were outstanding. Why haven't they done anything else? Basically it's because, once you get into sci-fi and/or fantasy, it's extremely difficult to break out of it again. The only member of the cast that I've seen in anything since is Jason Carter, looking very peculiar sans beard!
BRG, it sounds to me as though you need the Lurker Guides. Sort of episode reviews, containing JMS's original QA sessions with fans during the show's first run. They explain bits, add to bits, analyse bits (too much sometimes!) and are invaluable for extra information, and for filling in anything that you may have missed first time through. http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html Click on "Episodes", but avoid reading S5, no matter how much will power it takes! The guides contain big spoilers. The other information on the site (setting, characters, etc) is invaluable too.
Did I really call cc a money grabbing bitch? Sorry, that was a little harsh...(having just watched sil and how good she was in that)
Okay BRG- this is what JMS said in the B5 memoirs in T.V zone -
"I will tell you a true thing. A sad thing. Something I've never told anyone before. If i'd known that (SPOILER but guess who?) would opt not to return for Season 5, I never would've had Marcus give his life for Ivanova at the end of season four...."
Basicly, Due to someone having delusions of grandure, Jason Carter got prematurely written out. If I were him...i'd off been a little--- Irked? Peeved? RAVING PISSED OFF!! Poor Jason!
Season 5 would have been so much better with marcus! There was lots of rangery stuff going on...not to mention people saying Marcus like things...(A B.C.F.M.O- cmon!- If another charecter who comes into play had dyed his hair, grown a beard and cheered up a bit he could of been the dearly departed!)don't half make you wonder what the little marcus in joes head was saying "You killed me- now live with me!!!"
Andreas Katsulas played "The one armed man" in the Harrison ford version of "The fugitive." He was also recently in an episode of enterprise, and played a romulan in TNG.
Peter Jurasik was in an episode of Mash (Not a really good one- but I know that chin anywhere!)
Mira Furlan- i haven't seen her anywhere else... But I watch her as an actress and i'm blown away...If I could do that- I'd of stayed acting and not started writing!
quote of the day:
"Well you'm a long way form Texas boy- and that ain't the right accent."
Always thought S5 would have been better with him in it!
Interstellar Alliance my arse, United Federation of Planets sounds more like it! But again this was building from about the half way point of the season, when Sheridan got Londo & G'Kar to agree to Whitestar Ranger patrols on there borders. So my prediction about Earth and Minbari coming together was not far off, just a wee bit bigger! 
I bet that went down well in the American South! 
