NASUWT general secretary Chris Keates said it was an "anomaly" that a teacher who had sex with a pupil aged over 16 could go on the sex offenders register.
She told ITV's Tonight programme the law was wrong because a teacher could legally enter a relationship with a sixth former at another school.
It would be a bit pervy if the teacher was in their 40s of 50s though. Still, it could lead to all sorts of problems with claims of sexual harassment and blackmail. Whoever did have an affair with a 6th former would be walking into a bear trap.
Sixth form pupils almost certainly regard themselves as emotionally mature. But they are unlikely to be so mature that they will always recognise a sexually predatory teacher.
It would really be an invitation for some teachers to take advantage of their position. Perhaps the sixth formers wouldn't care too much about that. Then what happens? There's a competition for the teacher's attention.
How can a teacher possibly teach properly in an emotionally charged classroom? The idea is too ludicrous for words.
There are already teachers who abuse their position, if my school was anything to go by, & changing the law would just give them carte blanche to sleep with anyone.
It's true that occasionally a real relationship develops from a teacher-pupil liason - but it's not common enough to be worth changing the status quo.
The teachers who are into pupils are just out to sleep with teenagers. Pupils need to be protected from that as they can be immensely naive.
Originally posted by bjm: Sixth form pupils almost certainly regard themselves as emotionally mature. But they are unlikely to be so mature that they will always recognise a sexually predatory teacher.
I agree. And that's the problem - because teenagers are emotionally immature & too naive to know it. There's nothing more dangerous than thinking yourself wise when you haven't got a clue.
The predators in my school stuck out like sore thumbs to me - it was always the square girls that didn't see it & fell for them.
If that 22/23 year old is at a club and meets an 18 year old 6th Former, who is not a pupil at the school the Teacher works in - then I can see no relevance whatsoever.
Bearing in mind that Teachers can be male or female.
Everyone seems to want only to acknowledge that Teachers are male!!
NASUWT general secretary Chris Keates said it was an "anomaly" that a teacher who had sex with a pupil aged over 16 could go on the sex offenders register.
She told ITV's Tonight programme the law was wrong because a teacher could legally enter a relationship with a sixth former at another school.
I don't think anyone is saying a teacher should be able to date their pupils, or that it should not be a disciplinary offence. Only that it should not result in said teacher being put on the sex-offenders register if the pupil is over age, since what they have done is not against the law (even if it contravenes their conditions of employment and leads to immediate sacking and difficulty in finding another teaching job...)
Originally posted by hardwon: A Teacher can be as young as 22/23.
If that 22/23 year old is at a club and meets an 18 year old 6th Former, who is not a pupil at the school the Teacher works in - then I can see no relevance whatsoever.
Bearing in mind that Teachers can be male or female.
Everyone seems to want only to acknowledge that Teachers are male!!
Well I didn't mention male/female.
There have been female teachers who have been done for having sex with their pupils.
The average 25-30 year old woman is not going to be interested in a relationship with a teenage boy. And that's one of my points - that the teachers who do it aren't, in the majority, after a relationship.
In all probability she has dealt with real cases where a teacher has been put on the sex offender's register for what otherwise would have been a legal relationship.
If she limited herself to a suggestion that such cases should not require listing on the register, fair enough.
But I think most people would argue that a teacher/pupil sexual relationship is inherently undesirable. Its not entirely a question of age. Its a question of whether that person can be taken seriously as a teacher when they indulge in sexual relationships with the pupils. Its not just the teenage participant, its how the other pupils react, and how effectively he/she can teach when in a realtionship with one of the pupils.
I would have thought it a fairly basic requirement. A bit like the requirement for dcotors not to take advantage of their patients.
Originally posted by bjm: This is a campaign by a union representative.
In all probability she has dealt with real cases where a teacher has been put on the sex offender's register for what otherwise would have been a legal relationship.
If she limited herself to a suggestion that such cases should not require listing on the register, fair enough.
But I think most people would argue that a teacher/pupil sexual relationship is inherently undesirable. Its not entirely a question of age. Its a question of whether that person can be taken seriously as a teacher when they indulge in sexual relationships with the pupils. Its not just the teenage participant, its how the other pupils react, and how effectively he/she can teach when in a realtionship with one of the pupils.
I would have thought it a fairly basic requirement. A bit like the requirement for dcotors not to take advantage of their patients.
Agreed; and any teacher that engages in a sexual relationship with a pupil, even if that pupil is 18, should obviously face disciplinary action or dismissal.
But the question is, although the relationship is inappropriate, does it automatically mean they should be placed on the Sex Offenders Register? I'm not sure it does.
Although I agree that such relationships are clearly not appropriate, and that allowing teachers to pursue such relationships is clearly wrong, I don't believe all such relationships would necessarily involve an abuse of power. Some 17/18 year olds can be very savvy and sexually mature, not all of them are naive. Also, not all teachers are in their 40's and 50's, some are as young as 23. This age gap would be acceptable in almost any other environment, so why is it automatically a sexual offense when a teacher is involved?
But the question is, although the relationship is inappropriate, does it automatically mean they should be placed on the Sex Offenders Register? I'm not sure it does.
I agree. Sack them for breaking the workplace code of conduct or whatever and put that breach on their record, but putting them on the sex offenders register seems overly harsh, unless the pupil is under age of course.
But the question is, although the relationship is inappropriate, does it automatically mean they should be placed on the Sex Offenders Register? I'm not sure it does.
I agree. Sack them for breaking the workplace code of conduct or whatever and put that breach on their record, but putting them on the sex offenders register seems overly harsh, unless the pupil is under age of course.
I disagree. A teacher work is with vulnerable people and as such has a responsibility too them. They should be put on the sex offenders register. If they are serious about the relationship they would quit their job and continue.
A teacher work is with vulnerable people and as such has a responsibility too them. They should be put on the sex offenders register. If they are serious about the relationship they would quit their job and continue.
disagree. A teacher work is with vulnerable people and as such has a responsibility too them. They should be put on the sex offenders register. If they are serious about the relationship they would quit their job and continue.
Yes I agree with the last statement and the first, although 6th formers are not always as vulnerable as all that. But of course they should be some protection laid down in the employment rules and if a teacher breaches them then sack them, no exceptions. But a consensual relationship with someone over-age should not lead to placing on the register imo, even if it's career death.
disagree. A teacher work is with vulnerable people and as such has a responsibility too them. They should be put on the sex offenders register. If they are serious about the relationship they would quit their job and continue.
Yes I agree with the last statement and the first, although 6th formers are not always as vulnerable as all that. But of course they should be some protection laid down in the employment rules and if a teacher breaches them then sack them, no exceptions. But a consensual relationship with someone over-age should not lead to placing on the register imo, even if it's career death.
Exactly. It is of course inappropriate, and should lead to suspension/dismissal, but is it automatically an offense? Obviously if it can be proved that persuasion/coercion was used by the teacher then that is maybe a different matter.
I don't know how these laws work, but would a doctor who had a sexual relationship with a patient of 17/18 be automatically placed on a sex offenders register? Or is it only teachers?
disagree. A teacher work is with vulnerable people and as such has a responsibility too them. They should be put on the sex offenders register. If they are serious about the relationship they would quit their job and continue.
Yes I agree with the last statement and the first, although 6th formers are not always as vulnerable as all that. But of course they should be some protection laid down in the employment rules and if a teacher breaches them then sack them, no exceptions. But a consensual relationship with someone over-age should not lead to placing on the register imo, even if it's career death.
You cannot build a condition in the law protecting students from their teacher because there are varying degrees of vulnerability. Yes teachers should be put on the register for this illegal relationship. For every one consensual relationship I am sure there will be an abuse of power, regardless of how the statistic falls this law is there to protect young children from teachers willing to use their position to their advantage.
There are three key questions. Firstly, is the pupil aged under 16? If so, then a teacher - or any adult - having sexual intercourse with that pupil is guilty of a criminal offence and should be placed on the sex offenders' register. Secondly, is the pupil aged 16 or over? If so, then I can see no reason why a teacher - or any other adult - having sex with that pupil should be placed on the sex offenders' register If the legal age of consent is 16 and the pupils consents to intercourse with that adult then that adult should not be placed on the register. If the adult and pupil are in the same establishment then that adult is clearly guilty of gross professional misconduct and should be dismissed and not be allowed to work in the same environment again. Thirdly, if the teacher - or any other adult - meets a 16 year old in a social setting eg pub/club and the two take a fancy to one another and decide to have sex then let them get on with it. They are both over the age of consent I find it unpalatable that a 45 year old man might want sex with a 16 year old - and unpalatable that a 16 year old would want sex with a man of 45 - but if the age of consent is 16 and both parties consent to sex and they do not work in an environment where the man has some sort of 'duty of care' towards the girl then, as much as I find it distasteful, I cannot regard it as illegal or unprofessional.
Originally posted by ipsofacto: Secondly, is the pupil aged 16 or over? If so, then I can see no reason why a teacher - or any other adult - having sex with that pupil should be placed on the sex offenders' register If the legal age of consent is 16 and the pupils consents to intercourse with that adult then that adult should not be placed on the register.
They will be placed on the register for committing a sexual offence under the Sexual offences act 2003: Abuse of a position of trust.
As a teacher the individual is in a position of trust, responisbility and power. Because of the inherent power differential conferred by their respective roles (and age), the pupil may feel that they are unable to say no because of any number of potential repercussions, therefore the assumption that they are able to give informed consent does not stand.
Originally posted by ipsofacto: Secondly, is the pupil aged 16 or over? If so, then I can see no reason why a teacher - or any other adult - having sex with that pupil should be placed on the sex offenders' register If the legal age of consent is 16 and the pupils consents to intercourse with that adult then that adult should not be placed on the register.
They will be placed on the register for committing a sexual offence under the Sexual offences act 2003: Abuse of a position of trust.
As a teacher the individual is in a position of trust, responisbility and power. Because of the inherent power differential conferred by their respective roles (and age), the pupil may feel that they are unable to say no because of any number of potential repercussions, therefore the assumption that they are able to give informed consent does not stand.
Exactly. There we have it in a nutshell. I am convinced.
Originally posted by ipsofacto: Secondly, is the pupil aged 16 or over? If so, then I can see no reason why a teacher - or any other adult - having sex with that pupil should be placed on the sex offenders' register If the legal age of consent is 16 and the pupils consents to intercourse with that adult then that adult should not be placed on the register.
They will be placed on the register for committing a sexual offence under the Sexual offences act 2003: Abuse of a position of trust.
As a teacher the individual is in a position of trust, responisbility and power. Because of the inherent power differential conferred by their respective roles (and age), the pupil may feel that they are unable to say no because of any number of potential repercussions, therefore the assumption that they are able to give informed consent does not stand.
Exactly. There we have it in a nutshell. I am convinced.
Thats what you may thing, but that pupil is still over the age of consent and therefore it does not qualify to be put on the sex offenders registers. That complete rubbish and you both know it, stop acting stupid!
