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Here's a bit from the article: The ship's arrival was met by thousands of anti-NATO protesters chanting "Yankees go home!" and waving banners with the slogan "NATO Stop!" Police cordoned off the area around the ship. Ukrainian customs officers who boarded the ship and met the commander said they had been prepared to lay on buses for the U.S. crew to give them a tour of the city, but apart from a few officers, no one left the vessel. Oh, dear, how sad (and wimpy...)  |
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quote: Originally posted by Thewitchisback: Here's a bit from the article: The ship's arrival was met by thousands of anti-NATO protesters chanting "Yankees go home!" and waving banners with the slogan "NATO Stop!" Police cordoned off the area around the ship. Yeah they must love the Ukrainian customs officers who boarded the ship and met the commander said they had been prepared to lay on buses for the U.S. crew to give them a tour of the city, but apart from a few officers, no one left the vessel. Oh, dear, how sad (and wimpy...)
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quote: Originally posted by Thewitchisback:
Here's a bit from the article:
The ship's arrival was met by thousands of anti-NATO protesters chanting "Yankees go home!" and waving banners with the slogan "NATO Stop!" Police cordoned off the area around the ship.
From the pictures I've seen, I'd say there were about a hundred protesters. Keep in mind that the KGB has executed all the real journalists in Russia, and every supposed news article from the country is actually KGB propaganda. Also, even that hundred or so protesters were a KGB stunt. Russian intelligence has a cadre of fake protesters in the Crimea that they trot out whenever they need to pretend there is massive public support for a Russian military presence in the Crimea. That said, Ukrainians do seem to prefer that neither Russia nor NATO use them as a military base. Neutrality is a luxury I don't think they have though. If they want NATO to protect them from Russia, they need to help by providing bases for NATO forces. |
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i think russia will respect their neutrality. Last thing russia wants in NATO sitting on their door step. If Russia leaves them be, then there won't be any need for NATO to come trotting in, and Ukraine can be that much needed buffer zone between east and west.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Likewise, if Ukraine stays clear from NATO then there's no need for Russia to interfere.
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quote: Originally posted by Oralloy: quote: Originally posted by Thewitchisback:
Here's a bit from the article:
The ship's arrival was met by thousands of anti-NATO protesters chanting "Yankees go home!" and waving banners with the slogan "NATO Stop!" Police cordoned off the area around the ship.
From the pictures I've seen, I'd say there were about a hundred protesters. Keep in mind that the KGB has executed all the real journalists in Russia, and every supposed news article from the country is actually KGB propaganda. Also, even that hundred or so protesters were a KGB stunt. Russian intelligence has a cadre of fake protesters in the Crimea that they trot out whenever they need to pretend there is massive public support for a Russian military presence in the Crimea. That said, Ukrainians do seem to prefer that neither Russia nor NATO use them as a military base. Neutrality is a luxury I don't think they have though. If they want NATO to protect them from Russia, they need to help by providing bases for NATO forces.
Yes, I see the Ukraine government's on the point of falling, Oralloy, and that the US-supported chapis pretty unpopular. Looking forward to the evidence to support your contentions about: Keep in mind that the KGB has executed all the real journalists in Russia, and every supposed news article from the country is actually KGB propaganda.Also, even that hundred or so protesters were a KGB stunt. Russian intelligence has a cadre of fake protesters in the Crimea that they trot out whenever they need to pretend there is massive public support for a Russian military presence in the Crimea.Because you've seen pictures that look as though there were only a few hundred there, you assume that there was? Ask any anti-war protestor in the UK, they'll tell you how easy it is to make protests look smaller than they are. Of course, you would know that, from the other angle, with the falsified picture of Iraqis cheering when the statue of Saddam fell - turned out there were only a couple of hundred planted Iraqis there made to look like loads. What happened to all your gungho posts about Ukraine needing to be fastracked into Nato to "save" them - now you're saying they need to provide bases for NATO forces. Who says they want to be neutral, it seems that the Ukrainian politicians weren't saying that at all, and want to strip your guy of his powers.  |
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quote: Originally posted by askubala:
i think russia will respect their neutrality.
Not too likely. quote: Originally posted by askubala:
Likewise, if Ukraine stays clear from NATO then there's no need for Russia to interfere.
It isn't a question of need. Russia wants to reconquer the Warsaw Pact. They are already threatening Moldova as well as Ukraine. |
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quote: Originally posted by Oralloy: quote: Originally posted by askubala:
i think russia will respect their neutrality.
Not too likely. quote: Originally posted by askubala:
Likewise, if Ukraine stays clear from NATO then there's no need for Russia to interfere.
It isn't a question of need. Russia wants to reconquer the Warsaw Pact. They are already threatening Moldova as well as Ukraine.
really? or is this just your paranoid opinion? |
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quote: Originally posted by askubala:
i think russia will respect their neutrality. Last thing russia wants in NATO sitting on their door step. If Russia leaves them be, then there won't be any need for NATO to come trotting in, and Ukraine can be that much needed buffer zone between east and west.
Nice theory but it doesn't fly. Russia doesn't want a neutral Ukraine. It pretty much believes that Ukraine should do as it's told by the Russians. Who do you think tried to poison Yushenko? |
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quote: Originally posted by plandalet: quote: Originally posted by askubala:
i think russia will respect their neutrality. Last thing russia wants in NATO sitting on their door step. If Russia leaves them be, then there won't be any need for NATO to come trotting in, and Ukraine can be that much needed buffer zone between east and west.
Nice theory but it doesn't fly. Russia doesn't want a neutral Ukraine. It pretty much believes that Ukraine should do as it's told by the Russians. Who do you think tried to poison Yushenko?
Kind of like US policy then...? |
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quote: Originally posted by Thewitchisback:
Looking forward to the evidence to support your contentions about:
Keep in mind that the KGB has executed all the real journalists in Russia, and every supposed news article from the country is actually KGB propaganda.
Also, even that hundred or so protesters were a KGB stunt. Russian intelligence has a cadre of fake protesters in the Crimea that they trot out whenever they need to pretend there is massive public support for a Russian military presence in the Crimea.
The killings of all the reporters have been pretty widely reported. quote: Originally posted by Thewitchisback:
Because you've seen pictures that look as though there were only a few hundred there, you assume that there was? Ask any anti-war protestor in the UK, they'll tell you how easy it is to make protests look smaller than they are. Of course, you would know that, from the other angle, with the falsified picture of Iraqis cheering when the statue of Saddam fell - turned out there were only a couple of hundred planted Iraqis there made to look like loads.
The pictures made it look like there was only about ONE hundred protesting our ship. I didn't see any cheering Iraqis at the statue. I remember we put the American flag over his face. Think I saved a couple pictures of our flag on his face somewhere. quote: Originally posted by Thewitchisback:
What happened to all your gungho posts about Ukraine needing to be fastracked into Nato to "save" them - now you're saying they need to provide bases for NATO forces.
They shouldn't expect to get protected from Russia for free. They need to help out. And not only that, but if our troops are not based there, we won't be in any position to repel a Russian invasion. quote: Originally posted by Thewitchisback:
Who says they want to be neutral,
They do. Look at the popularity of the politician that wants to balance Russia against NATO instead of joining one side or the other (I forget her name, but she is about the most popular politician in Ukraine at the moment). quote: Originally posted by Thewitchisback:
it seems that the Ukrainian politicians weren't saying that at all, and want to strip your guy of his powers.
That is because they oppose his move toward NATO, not because they want to be dominated by Russia. quote: Originally posted by Thewitchisback:
Not trying to be offensive, but you always seem to cheer for evil against good. Any reason why? If the situation for freedom and democracy were as grim as you portray, a frown would be in order. |
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quote: Originally posted by Thewitchisback: quote: Originally posted by plandalet: quote: Originally posted by askubala:
i think russia will respect their neutrality. Last thing russia wants in NATO sitting on their door step. If Russia leaves them be, then there won't be any need for NATO to come trotting in, and Ukraine can be that much needed buffer zone between east and west.
Nice theory but it doesn't fly. Russia doesn't want a neutral Ukraine. It pretty much believes that Ukraine should do as it's told by the Russians. Who do you think tried to poison Yushenko?
Kind of like US policy then...?
US policy is to tempt Ukraine with money basically. Russian policy is to bully and intimidate. Now if you were Ukrainian which one would you honestly find more attractive? PS: You should stop thinking that the enemy of your enemy is your friend. |
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quote: Originally posted by plandalet: quote: Originally posted by Thewitchisback: quote: Originally posted by plandalet: quote: Originally posted by askubala:
i think russia will respect their neutrality. Last thing russia wants in NATO sitting on their door step. If Russia leaves them be, then there won't be any need for NATO to come trotting in, and Ukraine can be that much needed buffer zone between east and west.
Nice theory but it doesn't fly. Russia doesn't want a neutral Ukraine. It pretty much believes that Ukraine should do as it's told by the Russians. Who do you think tried to poison Yushenko?
Kind of like US policy then...?
US policy is to tempt Ukraine with money basically. Russian policy is to bully and intimidate. Now if you were Ukrainian which one would you honestly find more attractive? PS: You should stop thinking that the enemy of your enemy is your friend.
You should stop thinking that I think that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The statement I made said nothing of the sort. I guess you're saying the US threw money at Iraq then, didn't bully and intimidate it, and bomb it back to the stone age? |
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quote: Originally posted by plandalet: quote: Originally posted by askubala:
i think russia will respect their neutrality. Last thing russia wants in NATO sitting on their door step. If Russia leaves them be, then there won't be any need for NATO to come trotting in, and Ukraine can be that much needed buffer zone between east and west.
Nice theory but it doesn't fly. Russia doesn't want a neutral Ukraine. It pretty much believes that Ukraine should do as it's told by the Russians. Who do you think tried to poison Yushenko?
But Yushenko was pushing too much towards NATO. so hardly neutral. |
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quote: Originally posted by askubala: quote: Originally posted by Oralloy: quote: Originally posted by askubala:
i think russia will respect their neutrality.
Not too likely. quote: Originally posted by askubala:
Likewise, if Ukraine stays clear from NATO then there's no need for Russia to interfere.
It isn't a question of need. Russia wants to reconquer the Warsaw Pact. They are already threatening Moldova as well as Ukraine.
really? or is this just your paranoid opinion?
Russia Threatens Moldova: LINK |
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quote: Originally posted by askubala: quote: Originally posted by plandalet: quote: Originally posted by askubala:
i think russia will respect their neutrality. Last thing russia wants in NATO sitting on their door step. If Russia leaves them be, then there won't be any need for NATO to come trotting in, and Ukraine can be that much needed buffer zone between east and west.
Nice theory but it doesn't fly. Russia doesn't want a neutral Ukraine. It pretty much believes that Ukraine should do as it's told by the Russians. Who do you think tried to poison Yushenko?
But Yushenko was pushing too much towards NATO. so hardly neutral.
Yushenko doesn't trust the Russians so of course he's going to try and align himself with NATO but that's irrelevant. You seem to be saying that because of that Russia was well within its rights to resort to assassination? Russia has nothing to offer Ukraine economically so why exactly should Ukraine align itself with Russia? |
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quote: Originally posted by askubala: quote: Originally posted by plandalet: quote: Originally posted by askubala:
i think russia will respect their neutrality. Last thing russia wants in NATO sitting on their door step. If Russia leaves them be, then there won't be any need for NATO to come trotting in, and Ukraine can be that much needed buffer zone between east and west.
Nice theory but it doesn't fly. Russia doesn't want a neutral Ukraine. It pretty much believes that Ukraine should do as it's told by the Russians. Who do you think tried to poison Yushenko?
But Yushenko was pushing too much towards NATO. so hardly neutral.
If Ukrainians don't want to join NATO, that is a legitimate (if ultimately unrealistic) position. If Russia doesn't want Ukraine to join NATO, that is none of Russia's business. |
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Glad you agree, Oralloy, that there "seemed" to be about a hundred protestors. We know that "seeming" is not necessarily the same as "being". It's interesting that you kept a picture of the US flag draped over Saddam's face, Oralloy. Your government was totally embarrassed by what happened there. Remember they were supposed to be "helping" the Iraqis, not defeating them and sticking a US flag claiming Iraq as their own. This lady that you can't remember the name of sided with the politicians who refused to criticise Russia, which was an interesting development, nothing very neutral about that. You've taken my wink out of context , it's because I see you having to modify your stance. Now the Ukraine needs to do something if it wants to belong to NATO, where's the they'll be rushing to join us posts you were posting a wee while ago. |
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quote: Originally posted by Oralloy: quote: Originally posted by askubala: quote: Originally posted by plandalet: quote: Originally posted by askubala:
i think russia will respect their neutrality. Last thing russia wants in NATO sitting on their door step. If Russia leaves them be, then there won't be any need for NATO to come trotting in, and Ukraine can be that much needed buffer zone between east and west.
Nice theory but it doesn't fly. Russia doesn't want a neutral Ukraine. It pretty much believes that Ukraine should do as it's told by the Russians. Who do you think tried to poison Yushenko?
But Yushenko was pushing too much towards NATO. so hardly neutral.
If Ukrainians don't want to join NATO, that is a legitimate (if ultimately unrealistic) position. If Russia doesn't want Ukraine to join NATO, that is none of Russia's business.
How is not joining NATO unrealistic, Oralloy. Are we going to make them? I think Russia would count Ukraine joining/not joining NATO as their business, Oralloy, whether you think it or not. Kind of like how your government counts it as their business. |
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