The 10p tax fiasco shows that Brown is either a) a rubbish politician - he failed to realise the impact of making 5 million of the poorest worse off, or b) a rubbish mathematician - he failed to calculate the fact that 5 million of the poorest would be worse off. I wouldn't want either.
Sorry, but there is no way he could not have known that the abolition of the 10p tax rate would hit 5 million of the poorest. But let's assume that he and every single person in the Treasury at the time were total incompetents and they hadn't realised. It took all but 1 minute for the LibDems to work it out and question Brown when he announced it in the Budget. If he really cared about the worse off in society he should have taken note and changed the policy instead of keeping quiet and hoping that a year later it would be implemented unnoticed.
Originally posted by Liz**: Sorry, but there is no way he could not have known that the abolition of the 10p tax rate would hit 5 million of the poorest. But let's assume that he and every single person in the Treasury at the time were total incompetents and they hadn't realised. It took all but 1 minute for the LibDems to work it out and question Brown when he announced it in the Budget. If he really cared about the worse off in society he should have taken note and changed the policy instead of keeping quiet and hoping that a year later it would be implemented unnoticed.
I also didnt quite believe the "We didnt realise the effect", appologists that were trotted across our screens.
Originally posted by lostinfrance: The 10p tax fiasco shows that Brown is either a) a rubbish politician - he failed to realise the impact of making 5 million of the poorest worse off, or b) a rubbish mathematician - he failed to calculate the fact that 5 million of the poorest would be worse off. I wouldn't want either.
So who would you propose as a better candidate? You seem to forget that he has already steered us through two global recessions, and maintained growth in every single quarter since '97.
The "world recession" excuse they use doesn't work any more. The Tories kept using that excuse, people realised that perhaps even if it was a world recession we weren't doing as well as other countries which were supposed to be affected. He also claimed that if Britain went into a recession because of his policies the country wouldn't be as badly affected. That doesn't seem to be the case.
Originally posted by lostinfrance: The 10p tax fiasco shows that Brown is either a) a rubbish politician - he failed to realise the impact of making 5 million of the poorest worse off, or b) a rubbish mathematician - he failed to calculate the fact that 5 million of the poorest would be worse off. I wouldn't want either.
So who would you propose as a better candidate? You seem to forget that he has already steered us through two global recessions, and maintained growth in every single quarter since '97.
Only because he encouraged personal debt which was £1,430 billion at the end of March 2008. This is what his economy was built on.
Open your eyes and see what NuLabour really are CLAD. They are and have been an extention to the Tories and I find it so sad that decent, caring people like yourself and other formers just can't see it.
Originally posted by Liz**: Sorry, but there is no way he could not have known that the abolition of the 10p tax rate would hit 5 million of the poorest. But let's assume that he and every single person in the Treasury at the time were total incompetents and they hadn't realised. It took all but 1 minute for the LibDems to work it out and question Brown when he announced it in the Budget. If he really cared about the worse off in society he should have taken note and changed the policy instead of keeping quiet and hoping that a year later it would be implemented unnoticed.
I also didnt quite believe the "We didnt realise the effect", appologists that were trotted across our screens.
Go to any supermarket or department store, you soon realise when you speeak to the employees how many male, mainly female workers, are part time, and why have I noticed this in the passed, because the with older employees you get a far better more considerate service, rather than uselessness, when posing an inquiry to a an hung-over 18yr old with glazed expression, lights not on speeking very slowly, comes back with an answer "I'm not sure" and you having to tell them in a sharp tone, to wake them up, "go and find someone who will be sure" with the older employees the immediate answer is "let me go and check for you" anyway those that are beyond child bearing stage, no child tax credits or tax credit to claim earning about 6-8k per year, how many people fall into this category turns out about 5-6million , if I remember rightly.
Then you had the postie on Question time, on 13k per year, single guy, no tax credits, no child tax credits to claim, becuase we only have hard working families in this country, they have the opportunity to be able to go with a begging bowl to claim money, they have paid out in taxes, back. What a bl@@dy system Brown has webbed.He calls it redistribution of wealth, robbing from the low paid, to give to the better paid, that is one messed up Robin Hood. I call it Robin Hood buying votes.
Originally posted by Liz**: Sorry, but there is no way he could not have known that the abolition of the 10p tax rate would hit 5 million of the poorest. But let's assume that he and every single person in the Treasury at the time were total incompetents and they hadn't realised. It took all but 1 minute for the LibDems to work it out and question Brown when he announced it in the Budget. If he really cared about the worse off in society he should have taken note and changed the policy instead of keeping quiet and hoping that a year later it would be implemented unnoticed.
I also didnt quite believe the "We didnt realise the effect", appologists that were trotted across our screens.
Go to any supermarket or department store, you soon realise when you speeak to the employees how many male, mainly female workers, are part time, and why have I noticed this in the passed, because the with older employees you get a far better more considerate service, rather than uselessness, when posing an inquiry to a an hung-over 18yr old with glazed expression, lights not on speeking very slowly, comes back with an answer "I'm not sure" and you having to tell them in a sharp tone, to wake them up, "go and find someone who will be sure" with the older employees the immediate answer is "let me go and check for you" anyway those that are beyond child bearing stage, no child tax credits or tax credit to claim earning about 6-8k per year, how many people fall into this category turns out about 5-6million , if I remember rightly.
Then you had the postie on Question time, on 13k per year, single guy, no tax credits, no child tax credits to claim, becuase we only have hard working families in this country, they have the opportunity to be able to go with a begging bowl to claim money, they have paid out in taxes, back. What a bl@@dy system Brown has webbed.He calls it redistribution of wealth, robbing from the low paid, to give to the better paid, that is one messed up Robin Hood. I call it Robin Hood buying votes.
Originally posted by Liz**: Sorry, but there is no way he could not have known that the abolition of the 10p tax rate would hit 5 million of the poorest. But let's assume that he and every single person in the Treasury at the time were total incompetents and they hadn't realised. It took all but 1 minute for the LibDems to work it out and question Brown when he announced it in the Budget. If he really cared about the worse off in society he should have taken note and changed the policy instead of keeping quiet and hoping that a year later it would be implemented unnoticed.
I also didnt quite believe the "We didnt realise the effect", appologists that were trotted across our screens.
]
Go to any supermarket or department store, you soon realise when you speeak to the employees how many male, mainly female workers, are part time, and why have I noticed this in the passed, because the with older employees you get a far better more considerate service, rather than uselessness, when posing an inquiry to a an hung-over 18yr old with glazed expression, lights not on speeking very slowly, comes back with an answer "I'm not sure" and you having to tell them in a sharp tone, to wake them up, "go and find someone who will be sure" with the older employees the immediate answer is "let me go and check for you" anyway those that are beyond child bearing stage, no child tax credits or tax credit to claim earning about 6-8k per year, how many people fall into this category turns out about 5-6million , if I remember rightly.
Then you had the postie on Question time, on 13k per year, single guy, no tax credits, no child tax credits to claim, becuase we only have hard working families in this country, they have the opportunity to be able to go with a begging bowl to claim money, they have paid out in taxes, back. What a bl@@dy system Brown has webbed.He calls it redistribution of wealth, robbing from the low paid, to give to the better paid, that is one messed up Robin Hood. I call it Robin Hood buying votes.
Open your eyes and see what NuLabour really are CLAD. They are and have been an extention to the Tories and I find it so sad that decent, caring people like yourself and other formers just can't see it.
He didn't encourage personal debt, market conditions did that. The markets are too powerful for governments to control. To say that Labour are just an extension of the Tory party is too much of an easy and simplistic statement. Brown could have brought in many fiscal controls as Chancellor, and Britain would have been damaged as a result. We did not have a strong manufacturing base when Labour came to power, but we were strong in financial services. So it made perfect sense to build on this. In order to do this we had to have a climate that was welcoming to financial institutions. That is why we are the number one country in Europe when it comes to financial services, and we are very close, if not there yet, to being number one in the world.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not blind to Labour's failings, but they have done many good things, and continue to do so. Things that a Tory government would never do.
why can't they fix this forum? got error posting message 3 times and then what does it do, duplictae the message 3 times, and what is it with this slow, slow, even slower, then for 2secs quick, shenanigans?
Originally posted by Louboutin: Then you had the postie on Question time, on 13k per year, single guy, no tax credits, no child tax credits to claim, becuase we only have hard working families in this country.
And - even after everything that's gone on -Brown's been at it again this afternoon with his "hard working families" mantra.
He really has no capacity to get the message, adapt etc.
Originally posted by C.L.A.D: Now don't get me wrong, I am not blind to Labour's failings, but they have done many good things, and continue to do so. Things that a Tory government would never do.
Really?
And why do you think he inherited a booming City of London then?
Not to mention declining unemployment, low interest rates and low inflation.
Care to expand on the "two global recessions" he's so skillfully steered us through?
He's done nothing other than ride the global boom, stoke the property madness (remind me under who's remit the FSA works again?), borrow wrecklessly and frown.
People' lives are materially better than 1997. Low inflation Low unemployment Tax Credits, Free Bus travel for people over 60 Perhaps there should have been tighter/more effective regulatory measures over personal lending but perhaps some people are now learning financial responsibility.
Apart from his false socialist credentials - he is no more socialist than the Tories - Browns financial skills are a myth e.g. needing to rob pension funds of £100 billions even during the good years (and still robbing more from pensioners every year).
Originally posted by lostinfrance: The 10p tax fiasco shows that Brown is either a) a rubbish politician - he failed to realise the impact of making 5 million of the poorest worse off, or b) a rubbish mathematician - he failed to calculate the fact that 5 million of the poorest would be worse off. I wouldn't want either.
So who would you propose as a better candidate? You seem to forget that he has already steered us through two global recessions, and maintained growth in every single quarter since '97.
Alan Johnson is probably the best labour have and he used to be a postie so he's in touch with real people.
As for maintaining growth - easy to do if you encourage people to keep spending - trouble is, now the borrowing has run out people can't spend as there is no real wealth creation.
Not at all. AJ is a good bloke withe no pretentions. WYSIWYG with Johnson. Fair enough if you don't like the bloke for his policies. I can accept that but the man has come through the ranks from an ordinary background and knows a thing or two about ordinary people and their concerns.
Originally posted by lostinfrance: Not at all. AJ is a good bloke withe no pretentions. WYSIWYG with Johnson. Fair enough if you don't like the bloke for his policies. I can accept that but the man has come through the ranks from an ordinary background and knows a thing or two about ordinary people and their concerns.
i have no problem with Johnson, I think he is a very able, and capable politician. But not one to lead us through economic turmoil. It takes a lot more than having the common touch to do that.
Open your eyes and see what NuLabour really are CLAD. They are and have been an extention to the Tories and I find it so sad that decent, caring people like yourself and other formers just can't see it.
He didn't encourage personal debt, market conditions did that. The markets are too powerful for governments to control. To say that Labour are just an extension of the Tory party is too much of an easy and simplistic statement. Brown could have brought in many fiscal controls as Chancellor, and Britain would have been damaged as a result. We did not have a strong manufacturing base when Labour came to power, but we were strong in financial services. So it made perfect sense to build on this. In order to do this we had to have a climate that was welcoming to financial institutions. That is why we are the number one country in Europe when it comes to financial services, and we are very close, if not there yet, to being number one in the world.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not blind to Labour's failings, but they have done many good things, and continue to do so. Things that a Tory government would never do.
I am sorry he did, for he trashed all other forms of savings, especially pensions, making property speculation and buy to let the only investment in town.
As for manufacturing, our balance of payments were in the black in 1997, in the last 5 years of a Conservative Government they had added 250,000 manufacturing jobs. Since Labour have come into power we have lost one million manufacturing jobs, that and the debt laden consumer boom they over saw has seen our balance of payments disappear into the red to record levels reaching £50 billion balance of payments deficit or an £80 billion trade deficit.
Thrown into this mix has been the debt Brown has dumped onto the economy, five years ago, he said borrowing over 2002/3 to 2007/8 would be £47 billion. Due to his economic incompetence, he borrowed £165 billion. That’s a £118 billion black hole. Then add on the likes of £100 billion PFI he stuck Enron like off the books, and £50 billion Northern Rock. Then there is the Public sector pension liability which is bigger than the national debt.
So Brown might have seen us over some economic blips, but that was only because he threw money at it, money we no longer have. Neither can he cut taxes because we are taxed up to the eye balls and he needs every penny he can wring out of us. So if he's not the person to lead us out of the economic because he led us into it, he's also not the person to do it because the remedies he previously used , spend, spend and spend, is no longer at his disposal.
