Last week, Channel 4 broadcast The Qur’an - a two-hour film that explored the history of the Islamic holy text and looked at how it is interpreted by Muslims and non-Muslims around the world.
Not surprisingly, the channel has received a great deal of viewer feedback on the film – not only though Viewer Enquiries, but also on our forums, which have hosted some extremely interesting debates in recent days.
Did you watch The Qur'an? What did you think?
The TV Show is considering featuring a live studio debate on The Qur’an on Saturday 2 August and would like to hear your views. Please let us know what you think by leaving your comments below.
If you’d like to contribute to the show as part of our studio audience, please see our Take Part section for more details.
I am an agnostic; I believe that all religious fundamentalism is bad.
I watched the first programme ‘It shouldn’t Happen to a Muslim’ which appeared to start with the view that Muslims are (wrongly) getting a bad time and steered the programme and players towards that conclusion. The presenter failed to ask Muslims the hard questions and failed to develop issues raised by anyone criticising Muslims. I found the second programme ‘The Qur’an’ balanced and most informative. It answered a lot of my questions and has caused me to research deeper into those question revealing some illuminating answers.
I would like to see a probing and ‘no holds barred’ investigation into the ludicrously obvious truth that the Qur’an is the words of men and not God. I would like answers to the questions like those listed below:
1. Why would God choose to deliver his message verbally to an illiterate man and over a period of 23 years, particularly as the same God wisely decided to deliver his original message in writing when he gave Moses his Commandments?
2. Why did God, after delivering unambiguous and unequivocal commandments to Moses feel the need to deliver a different message (or at best the same message in a different way) to Mohammed?
3. Why did God need 23 years to deliver his message, was it because (as it seems) that he kept changing or amending the message he’d delivered the year(s) before?
4. How do Muslims reconcile the fact that, although God kept changing the message he delivered to Mohammed, they have no way of knowing which message came first and which was God’s decided final version.
5. Why has wearing the veil and sporting long beards suddenly (over the past 10 years) become de rigeur for British Muslims?
6. Why is it that the Muslim world has failed to contribute anything of significance in the world (other than big Mosques and suicide bombers) for almost 700 years.
7. Why (despite massive oil wealth) us the Muslim world less well advanced than the western world and the Muslim man ion the street poorer than his western counterpart?
‘IS THE QUR’AN THE ACTUAL WORDS OF GOD DICTATED TO MOHAMMED AND ACCURATELY RECORDED BY HIS FOLLOWERS?’
Every other debate I have seen on TV is a trawl through the detail of verses of the Qur’an producing verses which suggest that Islam is a tolerant peaceful religion and an interviewer who is too frightened to point out the many hateful and contradictory verses.
AND, to get all that together by 2nd August, with a balanced audience including people who knew enough about the Qur'an and were prepared to point out the contradictions and inconsistencies, is ambitious.
I must conclude from the lack of response here that the Muslims do not want a debate on the validity of the Qur’an for fear of it being exposed as the work of (fallible) man!
Originally posted by balaclava9: I must conclude from the lack of response here that the Muslims do not want a debate on the validity of the Qur’an for fear of it being exposed as the work of (fallible) man!
i suspect they dont want to play along with the divide and rule aspect of the film.
they dont want to play along with the puny attempt to ridicule and cheat islam.
so of course thre is no obligation to be part of the disclourse that set out to diminish islam rather than to explain and educate.
muslims see through beyond the pixels of what has been attempted in such a crude manner.
And you are yet to show me an abrogation. The challenge has been set to you, produce a book like the Qur'an! When you have completed the task, you have then proved the Qur'an to not be what it claims to be. As you are believers in science, maybe you should do some research into the science which is mentioned in the Qur'an
Originally posted by Yuze: And you are yet to show me an abrogation. The challenge has been set to you, produce a book like the Qur'an! When you have completed the task, you have then proved the Qur'an to not be what it claims to be. As you are believers in science, maybe you should do some research into the science which is mentioned in the Qur'an
There are already booksthat have been produced like the Qur'an. They're called the Bible and the Torah.
The Bible is (for Christians) and extension of the Torah, whereas the Qur'an is a plagiarism.
Originally posted by balaclava9: I would like to see debated the question:
‘IS THE QUR’AN THE ACTUAL WORDS OF GOD DICTATED TO MOHAMMED AND ACCURATELY RECORDED BY HIS FOLLOWERS?’
Every other debate I have seen on TV is a trawl through the detail of verses of the Qur’an producing verses which suggest that Islam is a tolerant peaceful religion and an interviewer who is too frightened to point out the many hateful and contradictory verses.
Originally posted by Yuze: From the dedication of people on this forum. I personally believe you all have more hatred towards Islam than Islam has towards you.
Again I don't understand your sloppy use of English.What does your first sentence mean? Anyway...I think he is entitled to have 'fear',hatred is too strong...But it suits your Muslim bashing agenda to so say. Does the Koran recommend kaffar bashing or not.I do hope this ? does not demand too much brain power.(one of your rules of engagement I believe)..QUOTE
Originally posted by Yuze: And you are yet to show me an abrogation.
Yuze (my new Muslim friend)
Where do I start? Do I go over all the ground we have already covered; delving into the detail of all the contradictory or illicit Sura ending up with you telling me that the version of the Koran I am reading is wrongly translated? OR, do we examine the bigger picture (the ludicrous assertion that an entity as perfect as a God could have dictated a document which could be better described as ‘A Guide to Tribal Management in 6C Arabia’ (and a not very good one at that?.
I would like to discus the latter not least because I know that you (and others of your ilk) have spent many years searching for plausible answers to those many contradictions and I have spent but a few short weeks on the same subject.
But OK, because I like you and because I know you have no answer to the big question I’ll slug out the detail with you.
Lets start with abrogation – you say there are none – before we go into those changes please explain the below, which to me says - we don’t but we do!!
Sura 2:106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that God Hath power over all things?
Originally posted by Yuze: And you are yet to show me an abrogation.
Yuze (my new Muslim friend)
Where do I start? Do I go over all the ground we have already covered; delving into the detail of all the contradictory or illicit Sura ending up with you telling me that the version of the Koran I am reading is wrongly translated? OR, do we examine the bigger picture (the ludicrous assertion that an entity as perfect as a God could have dictated a document which could be better described as ‘A Guide to Tribal Management in 6C Arabia’ (and a not very good one at that?.
I would like to discus the latter not least because I know that you (and others of your ilk) have spent many years searching for plausible answers to those many contradictions and I have spent but a few short weeks on the same subject.
But OK, because I like you and because I know you have no answer to the big question I’ll slug out the detail with you.
Lets start with abrogation – you say there are none – before we go into those changes please explain the below, which to me says - we don’t but we do!!
Sura 2:106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that God Hath power over all things?
Can you help me?
I have heard that there is a verse early on in the koran that says a muslim shouldn’t drink before prayers And that latter on in the koran it says a muslim should not drink at all Is this true and can you point me to the verse Thanks Nic
I have heard that there is a verse early on in the koran that says a muslim shouldn’t drink before prayers. And that later on in the koran it says a muslim should not drink at all Is this true and can you point me to the verse Thanks Nic[/QUOTE]
search for wine etc in one of these (remember that what you're looking for may be an Hadith)
when we have a topic heading like ‘It shouldn’t happen to a Muslim’ or ‘Do Muslims deserve to be treated this way,’ we get a flood of Muslim’s posting messages about how much they are misunderstood and how it is only a minority of them want to blow us up or take over our culture and how that minority have mis-read the messages of tolerance on peace in the Koran,
YET,
when we get a topic heading suggesting a debate on the validity of the Koran they are struck dumb?
Answer:
Because arguing that, what is obviously ‘A 7C Guide to Tribal Management’ is the word of God is too difficult.
(forgive me earlier use of 6C – I am human – unlike God I make mistakes) .
Originally posted by Yuze: From the dedication of people on this forum. I personally believe you all have more hatred towards Islam than Islam has towards you.
Again I don't understand your sloppy use of English.What does your first sentence mean? Anyway...I think he is entitled to have 'fear',hatred is too strong...But it suits your Muslim bashing agenda to so say. Does the Koran recommend kaffar bashing or not.I do hope this ? does not demand too much brain power.(one of your rules of engagement I believe)..QUOTE
I've never met such a bigger bunch of idiots in my whole life! How do you convince someone to believe something when there hell-bent on proving it wrong, no matter how much evidence is brought forward there is always gonna be morons who like to disagree because they hate the fact that there wrong. They will never accept being wrong but continue talking nonsense just for the sake of it, and the qur'an doesn't recommend kaffar (non muslim) bashing, but does say defend yourselves. By getting a harmless quote from the Qur'an and turning it into to something malicious is not an intellegent thing to do. I'd be the first to admit that islam does have it's faults NOT THE RELIGION but one or two idiots who got it wrong, doesn't mean blame the whole muslim population for it!. But i know that the killing of innocent muslims won't stop, well let me inform you that islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, more and more people are converting to islam, so the more you insult us the bigger and better we get, so please continue. Before i go i ask you to ask yourselves just one question, have you ever considered the notion that muslims might be right?, i mean just consider it, what if, just WHAT IF muslims got it right?, where will your intellgence and long words get you when your face to face with god?, knowing that you insulted him, his prophet, and his religion, can you imagine what god's gonna do to you? boy, i feel sorry for you... actually come to think of it no i don't!, you were warned. And as for the good non muslims i will pray that god shows you mercy, and guides you to the right path.
Originally posted by mintbox: . . . . and the qur'an doesn't recommend kaffar (non muslim) bashing,
Mintbox,
You don’t say whether you are or are not Muslim of whether you have studied the Koran?
You speak of harmless quotes from the Koran. I’d be grateful if you would explain the peaceful tolerant aspects of the below verses?
Sura 9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful
Sura 5:51 O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
