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quote: Originally posted by Venus__05:
Don't you think maybe the muslim world is just too large now to exist as a single state? What are the chances of it being supported by all of "the masses"? How can one leader rule on issues pertaining to all of the different localities, cultures etc?
The logistical issues would be a lot easier to deal with now rather than 100 years ago. The state would have its capital and leader but he different provinces would have its mayor. The masse wouldnt all embrace the idea straight away. I can see such a state coming into place gradually over time like a domino effect. In a place like the Middle East I think if one regime was replaced with a caliphate the other regimes would crumble pretty quickly due to people power. |
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quote: Originally posted by blast99:
Of course covering the face is detrimental to communication. This is fact obvious to a 3-year-old. Yet this woman rejected the idea as 'baseless'.
actually you are quite wrong, research has indicated that being able to see the other persons face adds little to communication other than liars being detected less. what they found was that from the voice alone one could make a better judgement with regard to what was being said and to the persons character. further the research found that the most expressive region on the face are the eyes, they provide more clues than anything else. there is a reason therefore that it is deemed baseless. what you have to learn to do is discriminate between those who are more politically motivated for whatever reason and those who practice their faith through their understanding of the fundamentals. |
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quote: Originally posted by Tequila_nic:
Can you name a muslim country that can lead the way?
Or a muslim country that Islam has been successful?
Nic
malaysia for one. |
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quote: Originally posted by balaclava9:
When you have a culture that sends children to schools where they spend (waste) all day memorising the Koran when they could be getting a 'proper' education how can you expect advancement and significant achievement?
you dont understand what these schools are. they provide an education as well as discipline, they are not well funded and they serve the poorest of the poor, the deprived and orphans who would otherwise have no access to any education at all. maybe you would prefer child labour so that you can get your cheap products, some people however seek a way to create opportunity for those who have no opportunity. the fact is that the 9/11 bombers came from well educated wealthy families, they were not strict muslims in that the reports had them visiting nightclubs, boozing etc. the 7/7 bombers equally were from an educated background. you mistake nationalism, patriotism fighting for ones country against foreign armies as something related to these schools, it is not the case. ordinary people who are afghans, iraqis fight because they have to if they want to retain their country. we are the savages who are trying to take that right of sovereignty and self determination from these people. the facts dont match the propaganda, its not the fundamentalists, its not the madrassas that have been responsible for 9/11 and 7/7 but educated westernised individuals who all stated that it was our interventions and support for despotic leaders that motivated them. the narrative from our governments is solely for the bigots and prejudiced who dont want to be accountable for what our governments and armies do abroad. |
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quote: Originally posted by Joliet: [QUOTE]Originally posted by obviouslyFAKE: I think you should do likewise balaclava9 as it only took me ten seconds to find the right wikipeadia page: Muslim inventions.
Of course much of these are not truly invented or inventions by muslims but merely achievements or adoptions of existant technologies and inventions by muslim peoples. quote:
isnt that the case for all of human invention that it is built upon other peoples endeavours?
we all live of adoptions or achievements of others.
[QUOTE]
Islam retained their .. and improved on it.
and that is so very critical to where we are today. quote:
This came to an end with the Rennaisance a was quickly gained from the Moors who had invaded Spain. And, due to the printing press this fuelled Western knowledge expansion.
it was stolen by the christian hordes from muslims. quote: Today, muslims make little contribution in science or technology. Yes there are the odd one or two but their numbers are not in any way reflected on a per-capita basis.
this is not true, universities all around the world have muslims doing research and contributing to science. what your problem is that it is not claimed or publicised as a muslim who has done the research etc. next you'll be reporting the neo zionist claptrap about what jewish people contribute above all others. really one should not fall foul of the simplistic propagandists without doing the full research. quote: Science and engineering are secular they are not religious. A person discovers or invents because of their training not their faith. If you wish to argue being a Muslim, Christian, Hindu or whatever is the causal or even a major contributory factor then you will have to evidence that claim.
not true and it is a naive comment to make. |
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quote: Originally posted by sally121: quote: Originally posted by Tequila_nic:
Can you name a muslim country that can lead the way?
Or a muslim country that Islam has been successful?
Nic
Sally do you really thinks so? Malaysia's political poverty This is a lot closer to my personal experience of Malaysia. malaysia for one.
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Sally,
Have you read any of the Koran?
If not start with the following sections:
Sura 9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful
Sura 5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.
AND remember these are the exact words of God as dictated to and memorised by Mohammed.
.
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quote: Originally posted by balaclava9:
Sally,
Have you read any of the Koran?
If not start with the following sections:
Sura 9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful
Sura 5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.
AND remember these are the exact words of God as dictated to and memorised by Mohammed.
.
dont quote out of context or without providing recognised work by islamic scholars that muslims would turn to. be holistic not piecemeal since the latter only provides the basis of ignorance rather than one of education. |
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quote: Originally posted by Grahamjt: quote: Originally posted by sally121: quote: Originally posted by Tequila_nic:
Can you name a muslim country that can lead the way?
Or a muslim country that Islam has been successful?
Nic
Sally do you really thinks so? Malaysia's political poverty This is a lot closer to my personal experience of Malaysia. malaysia for one.
and one cant find a similar commentary about the uk, usa etc? when we have perfection here then complain against others . |
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[/QUOTE]
dont quote out of context or without providing recognised work by islamic scholars that muslims would turn to.
be holistic not piecemeal since the latter only provides the basis of ignorance rather than one of education.[/QUOTE]
Sally,
Please try and be specific, if you think something is 'out of context' tell us what is the correct context. By rubbishing something without producing evidence or constructive logical arguement you display nothing but your own ignorance.
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Yuze (my No1 Muslim friend),
PLEASE come back and debate with me. Those who have replaced you don’t have the years experience that you have in providing half plausible answers to impossible questions. Mintbox seems like a nice chap but doesn’t have your skills for ducking the difficult questions. Sally, well what can I say, I think she’s given up and returned to hugging trees and the fight to save the whale.
So Yuze, PLEASE come back; I promise I’ll be gentle with you
Kind regards
Balaclava
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quote: Originally posted by sally121:
and one cant find a similar commentary about the uk, usa etc?
when we have perfection here then complain against others .
Sally, Here is the wikipedia page on Religious Freedom im Malaysia. Please compare & contrast this (& the link to the case of Lina Joy) with any similar entry you can find for Religious Freedom in the UK (or the USA). In particular, comment on the Malaysian constitution that states anyone who is ethnically Malay MUST be a muslim and any similar legislation/ restricition in the UK/ US. Finally, what exactly makes you think a person/ organisation/ government needs to be "perfect" before it can complain about another person/ organisation/ government?
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"The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas-covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be" D Adams
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Balaclava, I have been quite busy this weekend. Saturday I attended an evening of Islam in Brent Town Hall which was hosted by two white-british Muslims named Yusuf Chambers and Abdur Raheem Green (who I would recommend you to maybe type in on youtube and see what they have to say) which featured speakers such as Dr. Abu Ameena Bilal Phillips, Sheikh Khalid Yasin, Sheikh Faisel Boadi and Sheikh Adam. A good night, good food.  You will be pleased to hear the event raised over £150,000. Then yesterday (sunday) I was in Lewisham & Kent Islaamic Centre in Lewisham where an event called "Muslim Gangster" was held. This event was aimed at young muslims who are caught up in the streets of london and imitating the non-muslim youth culture which involves drugs and guns and women and violence all in order to gain money. Again another successful turn out. Anyhow I'm back now so feel free to ask any 'impossible' questions and I will do my best to answer. |
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quote: Originally posted by Yuze: Balaclava, I have been quite busy this weekend. Saturday I attended an evening of Islam in Brent Town Hall which was hosted by two white-british Muslims named Yusuf Chambers and Abdur Raheem Green (who I would recommend you to maybe type in on youtube and see what they have to say) which featured speakers such as Dr. Abu Ameena Bilal Phillips, Sheikh Khalid Yasin, Sheikh Faisel Boadi and Sheikh Adam. A good night, good food. You will be pleased to hear the event raised over £150,000. Then yesterday (sunday) I was in Lewisham & Kent Islaamic Centre in Lewisham where an event called "Muslim Gangster" was held. This event was aimed at young muslims who are caught up in the streets of london and imitating the non-muslim youth culture which involves drugs and guns and women and violence all in order to gain money. Again another successful turn out. Anyhow I'm back now so feel free to ask any 'impossible' questions and I will do my best to answer.
YUZE...I am truly heartened by such good news,especially in the light of the topic.Well done!  May I enquire what the £'s will be spent on? |
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quote: Originally posted by sally121:
and one cant find a similar commentary about the uk, usa etc?
when we have perfection here then complain against others .
The problem is than unlike the UK / USA corruption in Malaysia is politically and commercially endemic, as anyone who has tried to conduct business or other lawful activities rapidly finds out. As you didn't accept the previous post in support of your contention that Malaysia is a good example of a successful Muslim country try Asian Sentinel |
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i had a look at your link graham about Maylasia. Not too good if you want to be a christian there. What i have difficulty is the way Islam can't seem to do live and let live very well.
Why can't they let people practise another religion in Maylasia without repercussions.
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quote: Originally posted by santorini:
What i have difficulty is the way Islam can't seem to do live and let live very well.
I read a book by Amin Maalouf, a Lebanese Christian, whose family were always Christian going back generations to before Islam started. He says the Christian minority were historically always accepted by the Muslims and left to do their own thing, and the fact there are still Christian communities in existence there is a testament to that. He says Muslims would not have fared so well in Christian Europe through those centuries. The problem is not therefore inherent in Islam. But clearly some interpretations of Islam have been less open and tolerant in recent history. The reasons for that are probably largely political and economic.
no urls
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fair point Venus. The poor old Jews in Europe had a rough old time. Maybe certain countries are better than others about different religions
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Several of my postings from this and the other thread on the subject of Islam have disappeared. Why were they deleted - who do I complain to?
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You could try chat@channel4.com I for one don't remember any of your posts being offensive or breaking any of the rules.
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"The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas-covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be" D Adams
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Deleted posts.
I did contact chat@channel4.com and got a curt response suggesting that my posts had greached the rules and that deleted posts could not be restored. I replied denying that any of my posts brteached any rules and suggested that one of their staff might be trying to steer the debate. I'd like to know if any of those supporting the Qur'an ir Islam has had any of their posts deleted?
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quote: Originally posted by Yuze:
Anyhow I'm back now so feel free to ask any 'impossible' questions and I will do my best to answer.
Yuze, Several of my posts have been deleted including my response to this post trying to get our debate on abrogation back on track. Did you get my post before it was deleted and are you working on the answer? |
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ME TOO!!!! I think some massageing is going on.I am very disappointed with 'DISPATCHES' I think they should make a statement,if they want our continued support!  |
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