They obviously have different mods on this forum because this thread wouldn't have last five minutes on the news forum and there would probably be a few people with their accounts suspended to boot.

For Paula.

This is some ofwhat I thought about over the weekend:

wolfram's wishlist.......

Stop deletion of entire threads when only one post is causing a problem.

Cease the practice of moderators editing people's posts. If there's a problem - delete the post and state a reason ( this has never happened), nothing gets my back up more than being edited and having no comeback.

It should be possible for admin to state why a post has been deleted without getting into pages of argument.

Accept that people are going to try to be humourous and that public figures are going to be lampooned. I have seen many a thread disappear over the years for less offence than might be found on Bremner, Bird and Fortune. Mods should consider that this site is not the Washington Post - or even the Huffington Post. They get to write closer to the bone on blogs in the US, where people are far more litigious as a rule.

As was mentioned on a burned thread last week, the definition of what constitutes a safe URL in the T&Cs is quite ambiguous. I've had links to stories from AP, AFP and Reuters journalists taken down because presumably ( we never actually know you see - because they won't talk to us) they made their internet presence known at Raw Story or some other site of that nature.
We need to talk about this. It causes a lot of ill feeling and irritated people then start to snipe back at the admin, who then appear to wind them up further and further until they do or say something which gets them banned - hence my "perverse sport" statement upthread. Let's have an admin thread and talk about it eh?

Some of us think that a couple of people are being allowed to dictate forum content by excessive use of the complaint triangle. It has been suggested that posts - but mainly threads disappear because of their sometimes self-confessed overuse of it. I would hope that a brief investigation takes place prior to the removal of somebody's thoughts. If anything should result in a member's banning, it should be the abuse of this facility.

Oh, and having just spoken to him, do you think you could fix it for my old mate fatdave to be unsuspended. His account has been suspended for 2 years!!!. As he pointed out, "That's not a suspension - it's a sentence!" I know he misses many of his chums.

I'm really pleased that somebody has taken an interest and I hope we can all learn something from going through this exercise.

Oh great! They moved the thread here - that's me for the high jump again.

quote:

Originally posted by Deus ex machina:
Oh great! They moved the thread here - that's me for the high jump again.

It was always here Deus. It's omnipresent.

Let's see what can be done through non-mod channels to breathe some life into the not quite in full rigor news forum.

.....and one further thing. We need substantially more time before the software stops a post being edited by it's author!!!!!!!

At the moment there is a very short ( seconds) window of opportunity. After that your post is Gorilla meat .

Please don't underestimate the dissatisfaction of some very long term posters here. We have been very loyal over the years. Sadly, the administration of the News Forum in particular have fully failed to notice or reciprocate.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfram:
What does C4 care what anybody thinks about anything?

Once there were forums where debate was possible - about news, politics and the like. They now resemble ruins with tumbleweeds rolling around in a foul smelling breeze.

It remains unclear, due to a complete inability on the administration's part to communicate on the issue, whether this is an unfortunate but inevitable occurrence or, and I suspect this is the more likely, that it is the result of frankly poor management and individuals combining their employment with some sort of perverse "sport".

Either way it's a damned shame.

I couldn't agree more, wolfram. I know of no other forum whose administrators treat users with such contempt. I suggest you complain to senior C4 management. Complaining via the forums is completely pointless.

quote:

Originally posted by ok...:
I agree with you, the fine should be more and you should pay back the money witch you took from the inocent vievers.

I don't think they should have to pay the money back to the viewers...instead, the directors of ITV (and anyone else that has been caught out on these phone-in scandals) should be made to appear daily on TV, laughing at the viewers and calling them mugs for participating in these stupid phone lines. Any subsequent phone-in competitions, voting or such like should be prefaced with these laughing director clips until people finally get the message and stop phoning into them. And if they don't stop, then they deserve to be ripped off by these scams.

quote:

Originally posted by the rationalist:
[

I couldn't agree more, wolfram. I know of no other forum whose administrators treat users with such contempt. I suggest you complain to senior C4 management. Complaining via the forums is completely pointless.

Been along that road TR. At least now there is a viewers ed. taking some interest. For health related reasons I've recently had a year off from the forum. Logged in members can now frequently be counted without running out of fingers. It's a bit like wandering round a decommissioned hospital at night and hearing a feint cry for help from the basement.

quote:

Originally posted by Asarualim:
Any subsequent phone-in competitions, voting or such like should be prefaced with these laughing director clips until people finally get the message and stop phoning into them. And if they don't stop, then they deserve to be ripped off by these scams.

Wish I'd have said that. It's what I've been thinking

quote:

Originally posted by wolfram:

quote:

Originally posted by Deus ex machina:
Oh great! They moved the thread here - that's me for the high jump again.

It was always here Deus. It's omnipresent.

Let's see what can be done through non-mod channels to breathe some life into the not quite in full rigor news forum.

I wouldn't hold you're breath wolfy.

Thanks for your patience - I have been talking to different people in Channel 4 and the moderation company about all the points raised by Wolfram and will be able to give you some reaction and substantive replies tomorrow.

Paula

quote:

Originally posted by Paula C4:
Thanks for your patience - I have been talking to different people in Channel 4 and the moderation company about all the points raised by Wolfram and will be able to give you some reaction and substantive replies tomorrow.

Paula

Thanks for the update Paula.

quote:

the moderation company

That's revelatory, because I'm sure that in one of the "moderation wars" we've had in the past, somebody rang Horsferry Rd and was told that the mods were directly employed.

It's up to you who does your stuff of course, but I think they do too literal a job on many occasions and the resultant bad feeling cannot be good for C4. I'd be interested to see what performance measures are utilised.

Hope to hear more later.

I don't think that the fines are fair, in fact they are far to lenient. ITV should have been fined the max amount. Seeing as they have defrauded the everyday public of over £7million Ofcom should have taken them to the cleaners.

ITV should be weel and truely ashamed of itself

and bring back what the posters want
bring back the chat rooms

No, it's not enough and I would like the individuals who took these decisions prosecuted for fraud. How could anyone with any morals think that this was OK?

I'm also in full agreement about the moderation of the forums - hopeless and confusing.

quote:

Originally posted by free_thinker:
I have been posting here for years and had occasional posts deleted because they probably stepped over the 'robust' debate line.

Recently, I and others have had many posts deleted that could not in any way be considered objectionable. Even a post thanking for pointing out why a link didn't work was deleted.

When posts and threads that are deleted there is absolutely no explanation of what was wrong.
The mods exercise absolute and arbitrary justice with no explanation, justification or redress.
No you think this is appropriate and more importantly do you think it reflects the core values of C4?

Couldn't agree more.

I take part in the Big brother Live Update Forum and the Mods deleted a lot of content that was purely a running commentary on the happenings inside the house. (with no swear words as we filter those ourselves when we type)

I finally blew my top on a day that was quiet to start with and I was alone recording the few events that were taking place. Then suddenly it went mad and there was a lot happening, which I recorded frantically, only to return later to find all my Live Update Posts of the events had been deleted. In fact it looked like the House mates had been doing nothing all day the way it had been edited.

Needless to say I was not impressed one iota and made my feelings known at the time. I was rewarded with a ban. Which then meant I had to creep and crawl to the moderators in order to be reinstated.

Makes me wonder if they relish the boppings because of the creeping people then have to do to them in order to return.

I can understand boppings when a poster has been offensive towards another person or used swear words etc, But when its for no more than a light hearted remark it does seem a bit harsh, I realise that C4 has to watch its back etc and has to have some control over the material that is posted, I for one would not want an unmoderated forum, it would quickly turn to chaos,
but I am sure that a disclaimer posted big n bold at the top of the forums stating that the opinions expressed by posters in the forums is NOT the opinion of C4, would allow people to speak more freely without feeling like one is walking on eggshells every time one posts.

and PLEASE reconsider opening 24/7.

If everybody has to sign to say they are over 16 before they can be allowed to post in the forums, why then do we have to make our posts child friendly?

If we have to be relatively adult to join, then surely it`s expected that the content of the forum to be relatively adult? If children are not allowed to participate, then surely it should be ensured that they cannot read what is posted either. Is it not possible to chnage certain settings that only allow logged on people to read the forums?

This then surely would allow more discussions with less need of heavy handed MOD intervention.

Can the MODS, when they delete a message leave a note in the thread as to WHY the message was deleted? This then will allow us to actually KNOW why a post has been deleted.

Similarly, can there be made a provision in a members profile where the MODS can leave a short message saying that this member has been banned. That way their forum buddies knwo what has happened, and not left wondering whther something serious has befallen the vanished poster. They don`t even have to say WHY the ban is in place, just that one is.

As to the opening post in the thread.....

In my opinion, the fact that premium rate numbers were being used for these phone-ins, meant that someone was making money from it. Therefore, in my opinion, they were all scams. And which I avoided like the plague.

There has been far too much controversy over the years over "rigged" phone votes, going way back, even before the incidents causing the fines mentioned in the OP, for me to have ANY faith in the honesty of ANY phone-in voting/competitions.

Frankly, it just amazes me that people can be so gullable. But that`s just me. I`m probably gullable in other areas.

personally the ability 2 edit ones own post is sufficient 4 me ...


altho i feel that wen a post is in question and a possible deletion is considered more than one mod gods opinion on the particular post in question shud b considered thus effectively gettin a 2nd opinion on course of action - this also is sufficient 4 me

not bothered bout 24/7 forum tbh

BRING BAK CHAT INSTED !!

IM STILL MISSIN 4CHAT

MAN WE WERE LIKE KINGS IN THERE!!

i remember that b n my 2nd home tbh

i STILL consider myself 2 b a 4chat refugee...........


only reason i migrated 2 this place is cos u closed my home

also if u did close the pm option in 4chat then in my opinion THAT is a far safer environment than here considerin the moderation that was in effect there ...far more stringent and warnings were issued very justly n appropriately

a much safer environment than here in my opinion