quote:

Originally posted by snarkygirl:
So I've just finished Season 5.

(snip issues with the storyline)

I didn't detest it as much as you did. I think that in many ways it mirrored Colvin's frustration of failing to succeed while following the rules, meant that going out of the lines to get what they deserved was a necessary evil. To a logical human being, maybe it did look implausible, but maybe Simon was trying to emphasise tha tthe US population fall for this level of sensationalism every day without questionning it?

David Simon said Sydnor would be 'unsullied', so presumably he meant in his principles in achieving the required result, and less about the methods used.

Apparently Simon wrote the real Bubs obit, so There was a sense of positive closure there.

Re: Michael - he has the code, he doesn't necessarily have to have the same tendencies as Omar to be the new Omar. He questions the system he operated within, and through consequences of his actions, he is required to fight against that system to survive.

re: Marlo - the bad guys never lose - the Wire was an allegory for life, and the wrong type of people always succeed in life.

I'm with you on leaving it alone. We have the closure we needed (unlike the Sopranos), and it was a Show that offered no answers, maybe give us a chance to empathise re: the daily obstacles that instiutions face in order to fulfill the needs of the people that serve them.


Season 2 I grew into. didn't get it initially but came round when watching it on FX. Seasons 1, 3 and 4 are the best in terms of gripping you to watch something profound.



g, apologise if my typing was a bit array, or I offended anyone with my opinion.

garbarek wrote:

quote:

I didn't detest it as much as you did.

Oh I didn't detest it at all I just felt that the two main plot strands were weak.

Characterisation etc was fine although the newspaper side of things seemed less strong. Gus came across well (But that's cause he is Clark Johnson), principled etc but the rest of them, especially Templeton were just methods of telling us what Simon wanted to tell us. The main editors may as well have been cardboard cut-outs with a tape recorder behind them whispering "Pulitzer Pulitzer" repeatedly.

There was little to go on as to why Templeton went the way he did. Yes there were the job cuts, the desire for the glory and I could see how the small making up quotes stuff happened but putting himself right in the middle of it was too stupid even for him.

I did find it interesting that after all the Jayson Blair stuff (which they directly referenced) that Simon opted to use a white journalist. I'm not sure I bought the race issue in the Blair thing (or for that matter the Janet Cooke thing. I'm with you that sensationalism (or simplicity) is what the average reader wants) but I'm not a journalist so what do I know about how it all operates. Just interesting that he ducked that issue because it would have opened up a whole can of squirming worms.

quote:

but maybe Simon was trying to emphasise tha tthe US population fall for this level of sensationalism every day without questioning it?

As do the British population. The news reading habits of the vast majority of my colleagues are limited to the Metro and BBC/Sky news websites.

I just felt that someone who so identified with what he did for a living would think carefully about the impact it would have on his future career. I can see Lester going along with it simply because he was coming up to retirement anyway and he wasn't as wrapped up in being a police officer as McNulty was.

quote:

David Simon said Sydnor would be 'unsullied', so presumably he meant in his principles in achieving the required result, and less about the methods used. [QUOTE] This is another cyclical thing. Sydnor moaning to Judge Peter Gerety (I forget his name) mirroring McNulty in Season 1 when he went bitched about Barksdale. I was just surprised that Syndor, who seemed to be a background character, agrees to the whole illegal wiretap and is then set up as the next McNulty. He didn't strike me as reckless enough.
[QUOTE] re: Marlo - the bad guys never lose - the Wire was an allegory for life, and the wrong type of people always succeed in life.

I guess I was hoping that he'd wind up dead at the hands of owe of his own or one of his rivals. That's realistic. More realistic than actually getting caught by an underfunded, semi-competent police department via an ingenious yet illegal plan to wiretap him.

Season 4 is probably my favourite because there was some attempt to look at how it all starts with lack of parental guidance, education etc. You could see the kids "going bad" as you watched.

quote:

g, apologise if my typing was a bit array, or I offended anyone with my opinion.

I was sent on a typing course once. God knows why as we have a "typing pool" and secretaries. I gave up when I got to 17 words per minute. My mother did it all back in the 70s on actual typewriters (with a bell that sounded as you got to the end of the line and a red and black typewriter ribbon) and could do 70+ wpm.

The control freak in me hates that I can't edit my own posts if I don't do it within 10 seconds. Sort it out C4. And give us spoiler tags. And maybe a Kiefer Sutherland emoticon for when I want to do kissy faces. <g>

Other stuff that is not The Wire (yes there is other stuff!).

Liking Dexter although how no one realises he is a murderous freak is beyond me.

I have to admit that I even like The Fixer. Ex soap start aside, it's okay. The bloke from Shameless does well with his semi-irritating, semi-endearing thing.

Loving The Sarah Connor Chronicles. David Silver from 90210 turned up this week.

Supernatural remains good silly fun. I gave up on Mad Men after episode 1 and Damages is getting good.

Back to 24. I hear it's off until 2009 but with a 2 hour film sometime in between. I'm hoping this means that the horrible story where a character was resurrected has been abandoned.

They were doing a 24 Easter egg in Woolworths. I did not buy one.

On Snarky's Wire S5 appraisal.

I loved this last season, so I guess I don't agree, but I do accept the inherent weaknesses in the story. I thought the serial killer plot worked better than the newspaper one, and I thought Mcnutty's journey from drunk exuberance to sober acceptance of his actions was certainly a journey worth taking with him. I thought Bunk's reaction was also spot on, but I couldn't help but laugh out loud when Bunk bought in Lester to talk some sense into Jimmy only for Lester to join him in his crazy scheme. I thought the joy of the whole thing was seeing Jimmy trying to hang on to this runaway train he had let loose, while always knowing that somewhere along the way, it would hit the station and take out the town.

I wouldn't argue that it was anywhere near as clever as the other seasons, and I didn't think that had as much to say either. And looking back on it a few weeks later, it is clear that they had an idea and an ending in mind, and then manipulated the plot to achieve that rather than let it grow organically. So you had the little side stories of the Mayor going big on homelessness as a result of the 'killings', you have Lester's little dealing with Clay which just so happen to lead to Levy, which they could use to save enough face in the drug bust to keep the mayor in the clear and allow Lester and Jimmy to just fade away. And you also had the coincidence of someone at the paper make stuff up as well, although I forgive all that for the joy on Jimmy's face when he realises that someone at the paper is also making stuff up, and to allow his dressing down of templeton at the end, which I thought was as priceless as the first five minutes of Ep 10, with the Mayor apoplectic with rage and Norman Wilson crying with laughter at the wonder of it all. This season was certainly funnier than any before it, which I for one really liked. Jimmy's FBI profile was almost played for laughs!

On the newspaper stuff, I do feel that there was a surface plot about lying journalists, and the ease with which a story can be made up and still look credible, and then be ran with even when the lie becomes apparent. But more interesting was the subtext, the complete lack of knowledge of the streets by even the good reporters, the simple ignorance of who prop Joe and Omar were, and the way their deaths went unreported. In the same way that The Wire goes unknown through the TV landscape, so the heroes and villains of its plot travel under the radar of the local newspapers tasked with revealing the city to their readers. I guess its an obvious metaphor, but I didn't get it while watching, but rather picked it up from a subsequent interview, which maybe suggests it was too much in the background for its own good.

And as snarky says, the characterisations of all the main players was handled expertly as always. I loved Marlo's my name is my name speech, first time the guy was allowed to flex his muscles acting wise this season, and he did it brilliantly. I was completely surprised by Omar death at the hands of Kenard, was moved by Snoops death at the hands of Michael, and so disappointed that Dukie couldn't see a better way, and Michael also couldn't see a way to help. Randy was most tragic, Namond was hopeful, and Bubs was just perfect for the character. Was kinda disappointed that none of the cops kept an interest in Bubs, though. Thought it would have been nice for Kima to still keep in touch, for instance.

So there you are, seeing more areas of discontent now with a bit of time, but I still loved it, and thought the ending was as good and complete as I could have hoped. No need for anymore, although I hope the cast and crew get to enjoy success in whatever they do.

Paul, sad that it has ended, but looking forward to Generation Kill, more 24 (with the dead guy back - how could you not want Zombie Tony!), Lost and the impressively good Sarah Conner Chronicles.

another series end in Ashes (until next year), and I'm afraid I'm a fan of Jean Geney. A lot of people said it was poor cousin to Life on Mars, but I thought it was just as good in places - the opening titles with Dean Andrews and Marshall's leap, the screeching tyres, Amelia Bullimore, and the end whilst the twist seemed obvious, they led us down the garden path one way with so much convincing material and swerved us at the end. meanwhile a new ep on ER, and while it was good to see Jeanie, and another closer alumnus on the show, I can't help but think Phil Glenister would make a great ballsy doc. pity it ends next year, but then in many ways it's overdue.

g, loving the curse of comedy season. Ken Stott remarkably like Hancock, Jason Isaacs remarkably playing Harry H Corbett. Phil Davis was an easier fit for Brambell. Trevor Eve as Hughie Green next week. Also the mark lawson interviews - Galton and Simpson and George Cole done, and Barry Cryer next week

Comedy Masterclass.

On Ashes to Ashes, I actually warmed to it, despite the clothing. I think it was refreshing to see a show that knew exactly where it was going and how it was going to get there, and essentially built up over 8 eps to get to that ending. Glad its coming back, but not sure I know what the arc story will be from what we have seen. Question is, who is Gene Hunt, and where does he fit in?

Missed the curse of comedy first past, but will try and catch a repeat because it sounds great.

Paul, looking forward to new Counting Crows, REM and maybe even try new Def Leppard after Garb's review of the single. Good to see any band still trying, and I'd see them if they toured again, thats for sure.

I really, really didn't hate it as much as you both think. Below par The Wire is better than everything else on tv.

Paul wrote:

quote:

I didn't think that had as much to say either.

Now that I'm allowed to read stuff about the show I see that early criticism was that Simon was just too close to the story (the journalism arc) to see it clearly and was caught up in his own bitterness etc. Maybe that was it

quote:

Was kinda disappointed that none of the cops kept an interest in Bubs, though. Thought it would have been nice for Kima to still keep in touch, for instance.

Yeah me too. He popped up in TSCC this week. I am really liking that show. Lena Headley's great (I could do without the monologues though – it's so Fox Mulder/blokey from Heroes), the kid's okay of a bit emo/weedy for a future resistance leader and Summer Glau (sp?) does vacant very very well.

I read that the last murder scene with Bunk and Greegs took place until the same statue that they found the postman's body (Gant?) under in Season 1 with the same "there you go, giving a…" line used as then. I guess the point is it's all cyclical.

quote:

more 24 (with the dead guy back - how could you not want Zombie Tony!),

I do not want dead Tony back. I could not bear for them to besmirch his (only-a-bit-tarnished-by-the-deal-with-terrorists-to-get-my-wife-back thing) reputation.

garbarek – go and seek out the Noise-Floor Crew v Portishead mix of Machine
Gun (re-mixers and their crazy names...). It takes the Machine Gun motif a bit far but hey...

I have now seen the season opener for BSG. I am really looking forward to where this is going.

Also looking forward to the last Damages. I wasn't keen at first but it settled in nicely.

Just curious as to what the button above does. Let's see:

What does it do? 

quote:

Originally posted by snarkygirl:
I have now seen the season opener for BSG. I am really looking forward to where this is going.

Also looking forward to the last Damages. I wasn't keen at first but it settled in nicely.

two shows I really need to see. problem is 11:00 - 11:30 at night isn't a good timeslot for most people to be addicted to it.

ordered Generation Kill book and hopefully it arrives before the mini-series starts. trailer up at present for it with Ziggy sounding like Ziggy at war. I like the BRMC track they used.

Shield and Rescue Me in September, hopefully closer season 4 in a couple of months, otherwise not a lot to whet my appetite on TV.

New BSG is looking pretty good this year. I predict that everyone dies, but thats just me. Could do with a little less Starbuck screaming like a girl, but even so, it is looking like they have complete control over where this is going.

I liked Damages. Say no more until people have seen the finale.

And Catherine Tate is not as annoying as I thought she might be on Doctor Who. Every now and again (well, about 10 times an ep) she falls into the screeching cockney (or whatever) that I find quite annoying, but she handles the quieter stuff well, and its good to see the Doctor with someone who doesn't go all gooey eyed at the sight of him. Looking forward to the rest of it!

Paul, who has just bought an Ipod Touch, and let me tell you, this thing is a work of genius. It might cost a fortune, but its just lovely. It has the best interface I have ever used, you can scan the web, check email, watch videos and do just about everything you would want an MP3 player to do, all in box about 4 inches long and thin as a very thin thing. Keeping finger prints of the screen is by biggest problem. I had an old 20gb Ipod that was showing its age and crashing a bit much, so I checked ang got the 32gb version. Thought about a phone, but you know what, I already have a phone, and this thing does everything but, and has twice the memory. Basically, I love it more than any other gadget I have ever bought, and I've bought a few. Go get!

THIS IS ABOUT DAMAGES

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Paul wrote:

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I liked Damages. Say no more until people have seen the finale.

I liked it too. I thought it was slow at first but it really did get good. The flashbacks and forwards were a bit annoying but all in all, loved it.

I'm glad that Ellen will be back next season and on the side of the angels, so to speak. She developed as a character well, a bit unsure at first and overwhelmed by Patty but really came out of her shadow towards the end. Ed Danvers (I would look it up but I can't be bothered) was fantastic - gave the character real depth re his confusion about Greg.

THIS IS ABOUT BSG

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Paul wrote:

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New BSG is looking pretty good this year. I predict that everyone dies, but thats just me. Could do with a little less Starbuck screaming like a girl, but even so, it is looking like they have complete control over where this is going.

Not seen Ep 2 but I agree that they know where they are going and seem to have from the start. Which makes a change from the likes of X-Files/Lost/later 24 where the plot was lost so early on they just made it up as they went along.

I do not think Starbuck is the One. I am afraid it may be Col. Adama. I'd like it to be Roslin as it would screw her many gods theory.

This is just about random stuff.

garbarek - go watch both Damages and BSG but esp BSG.

I do not watch Doctor Who, so cannot comment on Catherine Tate.

Charlie Brooker is doing horror for E4.

Waking the Dead is back tonight.

I want an Ipod touch. I had a 20G and then got a 30G video one. Never used the video thing. I want to punch the people who watch on the train and laugh out loud like mad, mad fools. I admit mine are the U2 ones. I admit I am a sad cow.

I'm surprised about the crashing although I have heard horror stories of them just packing in on the one-year anniversary, just out of warranty. Touch wood, fingers crossed etc mine have never crashed.

I so want one. Are the made from the plastic thing or aluminium? My first one was all plastic and was so scratched I wanted to cry (what is it about how they attract scratches and finger prints?). The current is plastic front with aluminium back, which I hear is what they are doing for standard now. They are truly objects of beauty. I am so jealous you have one. I just can't justify it, as I would have no need for all the non-musical add-on things.

quote:

Originally posted by snarkygirl:
THIS IS ABOUT DAMAGES

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Paul wrote:

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I liked Damages. Say no more until people have seen the finale.

I liked it too. I thought it was slow at first but it really did get good. The flashbacks and forwards were a bit annoying but all in all, loved it.

I did write a bunch of stuff in response to the Timey Wimey Stuff ( a lot like Memento, I said, because it was) and also complemented Zjelko and Ted Danson for being excellent in their respective roles. And I likened Patty to Vic Mackey, mainly as the bad guy as good guy kind of thing.

But the mods didn;t like it, so there's the sum of it. Also, I did a bit of a thing on my preference for 13 ep seasons that are in the bag prior to being shown, as they can do that kind of fancy stuff in the editing as well, and it allows them to tell their story. I also pondered whether 24 next year would make more sense as the majority is already filmed, and it will complete before it is shown. It shouldn't feel like they made it up on the spot, Zombie Tony and all!

And BSG is the better for knowing its finishing, and so is Lost now it has an end date.

I think that was it, unless the Mods are picky again, it which case I'll try something else.

Paul, who loves all the things about the Touch that aren't to do with music and which I didn't think I'd use. Well, its full of vids now, and I'll be laughing on the train soon enough!

switching matters to Homicide - I can't believe I had an oppotunity to ask David Simon or Clark Johnson who the fourth chair was going to be for, and didn't think about it until recently.

g, who hasn't got round to reading Generation Kill yet (I am so lazy), but needs to to appreciate the mini-series.

I'm also keen to speculate how season 7 of the shield will transpire. Will Danny and Dutch be a long term thing, will Claudette's Lupus increase her deterioration, will Vic/Shane come to a head, will Ronnie make the decisive step?

Also, Rescue Me has lost it's home in the UK Ridiculous. 4th season took a while to get there but when it did it was ace.

Looking forward to Generation Kill. May just have to get the book as well, although (and it shames me to say) I have the Homicide and Corner books and have never read them. I know, I'm hanging my head.

This ones mad, too, because while I have it, I have never watched The Corner. The shame!

As for The Shield, I feel it has to end with Claudette slipping cuffs on Vic. Shane will probably turn states evidence on Vic that clinches the deal, Dutch will revisit his cat killing antics, and The Barn will close for good.

Looking forward to Vic getting his comeuppance, although now he has stuff on everyone, well, just how safe will any conviction be.

As for Rescue Me, they really need to get off the Denis Leary love train, with every female he comes into contact with wanting him in some way. It was fun for a few seasons, but I got a bit bored with it the last season. Still one of the most entertaining hours, and I'll be sad if Sky stop showing it because they showed it in HD, which was really the way it was meant to be seen. Perhaps FX will pick it up?

Paul, listening to the Editors, and liking it. Also the Wombats.

quote:

Originally posted by paulellis:

Paul, listening to the Editors, and liking it. Also the Wombats.

I've had a 80s nostalgia craving today and not the established bands, intelligent pop music like Cupid and Psyche 85 by Scritti Politti, and some one hit wonders - it bites, alphaville, flock of seagulls, matthew wilder (break my stride). I wish we could go back to the really 'thin' production of the 80 rather than pro tools where everything is blended together and the dynamics of each part get lost.

goldfrapp is the only stuff that comes close.

got new ladytron. very dark.

quote:

Originally posted by snarkygirl:
I'm glad that Ellen will be back next season and on the side of the angels, so to speak. She developed as a character well, a bit unsure at first and overwhelmed by Patty but really came out of her shadow towards the end. Ed Danvers (I would look it up but I can't be bothered) was fantastic - gave the character real depth re his confusion about Greg.

Wasn't he Ray Fisk? is it me or does the opening music sound very 80's U2? dramatic though - opening titles give me goosebumps.

Paul wrote:

quote:

I also pondered whether 24 next year would make more sense as the majority is already filmed, and it will complete before it is shown. It shouldn't feel like they made it up on the spot, Zombie Tony and all!

I heard they were just going to scrap it and start over. Either that or I just convinced myself that they are scrapping Zombie Tony because I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THAT.

garbarek wrote:

quote:

switching matters to Homicide - I can't believe I had an oppotunity to ask David Simon or Clark Johnson who the fourth chair was going to be for, and didn't think about it until recently.

Console yourself in the knowledge that they were unlikely to have answered. Better to have us all wonder than to spoil all the speculation.

Paul confesses:

quote:

Looking forward to Generation Kill. May just have to get the book as well, although (and it shames me to say) I have the Homicide and Corner books and have never read them. I know, I'm hanging my head.

This ones mad, too, because while I have it, I have never watched The Corner. The shame!

I read the Homicide book after I had seen the show so you instantly recognise bits of the book in the show. I also hang my head in shame as I have neither read nor watched The Corner. I really struggled with the show and gave up before the end of the first episode.

I have not seen the last episode of the last season of The Shield so will be catching up soon. Current viewing is Waking the Dead (Why? The plots are impenetrable and I rarely care about the victims but I still watch shouty Boyd) and BSG. Missed the last episode of Heroes but I liked Nathan's Beard of Sadness (Trademarked to the 24 writers who gave Jack a similar Bread of Sadness post Terri's Death – different from his Old Man Beard of Stoic Imprisonment post China). I hear next season is the last for ER with Carter returning for a few episodes.

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Paul, listening to the Editors, and liking it. Also the Wombats.

I did not like the Editor's second one. In fact I did not like most "second albums" I got last year

garbarek again:

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- it bites, alphaville, flock of seagulls, matthew wilder (break my stride)

I came into possession of "School Reunion: The Disco" the other day. T'Pau, Tracey Ulman, Human League, Billy Idol. I had a nice singalong.

quote:

is it me or does the opening music sound very 80's U2? dramatic though - opening titles give me goosebumps.

I think it was just you. <g> I miss 80's U2...